Replace women's AMA class with 125cc class

miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:07pm
10/20/2011 2:07pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Glad you didn't work for NASACARs marketing department. They made a shit load of people who previously didn't watch or even talked about how boring it...
Glad you didn't work for NASACARs marketing department. They made a shit load of people who previously didn't watch or even talked about how boring it was, followers. Don't believe me, do some research.
And that's why I LOVE this sports close mindedness. LOL
GuyB wrote:
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles. I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and...
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles.

I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and realized that I don't have to.

I do know how to keep you on the edge of your seat, though. (Watch this...)

Oh, and another thing...
Funny thing is, you ALWAYS turn to personal attacks when I show you are wrong. So you'd click me for proving your wrong? Is that what the point was, with "allowing me"
Track and Trail 10/20/2011 2:09pm
10/20/2011 2:09pm
This "women's class races are boring" argument is tired. If you're mad about 1 or 2 girls killing the field then you must have hated watching the men for decades. As the talent pool shifts from year to year so does the probability of good racing, and the chance of that happening is not gender specific. I will add good racing is also not bike or age specific.

Also, I have little interest in watching local riders race the day of a national, regardless of what bike they ride. If the pro nationals are used as the new amateur national series with riders like AC, Webb, and Hill they would have something.

I do see merit in having a 125 showcase, in that it might nudge someone into buying a tiddler. I love the sound and two-strokes in general as it seems many others do. I don't believe putting riders on them is going to make the racing any better though. Like I said above I think the racing is only as good as the talent who are riding regardless of the bike. If there are even two riders close in speed we should feel lucky.

I like the 6 and 6 idea, but only if many national level amateurs attend. Either that or stick with just the ladies. I like watching WMA.
P
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P 10/20/2011 2:12pm
10/20/2011 2:12pm
OldTiddler, I have one word to your points about 125 bikes at Nationals. Bubba. Wink

I'd be hard pressed to see James on a 125 again.


P
burn1986
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burn1986 10/20/2011 2:15pm
10/20/2011 2:15pm
I'm comin in on this one kind of late, since I share a computer with a bunch of goofballs. Anyway, so is DC finally gonna do the 125 thing like he said?

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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 10/20/2011 2:20pm
10/20/2011 2:20pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Glad you didn't work for NASACARs marketing department. They made a shit load of people who previously didn't watch or even talked about how boring it...
Glad you didn't work for NASACARs marketing department. They made a shit load of people who previously didn't watch or even talked about how boring it was, followers. Don't believe me, do some research.
And that's why I LOVE this sports close mindedness. LOL
GuyB wrote:
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles. I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and...
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles.

I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and realized that I don't have to.

I do know how to keep you on the edge of your seat, though. (Watch this...)

Oh, and another thing...
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Funny thing is, you ALWAYS turn to personal attacks when I show you are wrong. So you'd click me for proving your wrong? Is that what...
Funny thing is, you ALWAYS turn to personal attacks when I show you are wrong. So you'd click me for proving your wrong? Is that what the point was, with "allowing me"
You don't show that people are wrong, you just show that you don't agree with them or accept facts they lay out for you.

If you get clicked, I expect it'll be for being a tedious wacko bore, not because somehow your secret truth needs to be supressed.
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:23pm
10/20/2011 2:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2011 2:24pm
GuyB wrote:
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles. I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and...
Apparently I'm pretty open-minded. I keep allowing you to argue yourself in circles.

I started questioning the sanity of playing message board tennis with you, and realized that I don't have to.

I do know how to keep you on the edge of your seat, though. (Watch this...)

Oh, and another thing...
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Funny thing is, you ALWAYS turn to personal attacks when I show you are wrong. So you'd click me for proving your wrong? Is that what...
Funny thing is, you ALWAYS turn to personal attacks when I show you are wrong. So you'd click me for proving your wrong? Is that what the point was, with "allowing me"
FreshTopEnd wrote:
You don't show that people are wrong, you just show that you don't agree with them or accept facts they lay out for you. If you...
You don't show that people are wrong, you just show that you don't agree with them or accept facts they lay out for you.

If you get clicked, I expect it'll be for being a tedious wacko bore, not because somehow your secret truth needs to be supressed.
Umm, try the other way around. Was this a fact or opinion? "GuyB wrote: People are either into it, or they're not. You can't make anyone watch something they're not into."

I showed facts about NASCAR and it's rise in popularity. Just like Matthes posts, I showed facts. Most here just don't like them. It has nothing to do with my opinion. It was facts. Fact of woman vs man in tennis, fact of NASCARs rise, Fact of 4 stroke rules. Try again.
OldTiddler
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OldTiddler 10/20/2011 2:23pm
10/20/2011 2:23pm
P wrote:
OldTiddler, I have one word to your points about 125 bikes at Nationals. Bubba. ;) I'd be hard pressed to see James on a 125 again...
OldTiddler, I have one word to your points about 125 bikes at Nationals. Bubba. Wink

I'd be hard pressed to see James on a 125 again.


P
Yeah Bubba, especially Budds Creek '03, wasn't it?

Bubba is an exception in just about any argument!
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:24pm
10/20/2011 2:24pm
P wrote:
OldTiddler, I have one word to your points about 125 bikes at Nationals. Bubba. ;) I'd be hard pressed to see James on a 125 again...
OldTiddler, I have one word to your points about 125 bikes at Nationals. Bubba. Wink

I'd be hard pressed to see James on a 125 again.


P
OldTiddler wrote:
Yeah Bubba, especially Budds Creek '03, wasn't it?

Bubba is an exception in just about any argument!
Guy Cooper was fun to watch on them. Much more than his 250 days.
mung and drool 10/20/2011 2:25pm
10/20/2011 2:25pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Umm, try the other way around. Was this a fact or opinion? "GuyB wrote: People are either into it, or they're not. You can't make anyone...
Umm, try the other way around. Was this a fact or opinion? "GuyB wrote: People are either into it, or they're not. You can't make anyone watch something they're not into."

I showed facts about NASCAR and it's rise in popularity. Just like Matthes posts, I showed facts. Most here just don't like them. It has nothing to do with my opinion. It was facts. Fact of woman vs man in tennis, fact of NASCARs rise, Fact of 4 stroke rules. Try again.
Facts of I See Crazy People. And some of them post here.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/20/2011 2:30pm
10/20/2011 2:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2011 2:31pm
Mied just pointed out some things about NASCAR and all the sudden he's under attack? The fact is that even though the 125 class at local tracks everywhere has increased, no one wants to acknowledge that 125s are exciting to watch and race.. We all know that 4-strokes have taken over and 2-strokes have been removed from all forms of racing. This doesn't mean that they are dead though. And just because people mention them doesn't mean they are insane or freaks or something. Besides, 4-strokes have helped to bring to cost of the sport up so much that it's only a matter of time before all the pro teams fold, unfortunately. A small but new little series (along with the WMA) on an inexpensive machine would only help. How will this hurt the sport?
FastEddy
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FastEddy 10/20/2011 2:35pm
10/20/2011 2:35pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2011 2:45pm
OldTiddler wrote:
As for the lack of 125s at pro events, I don't get this at all. I love 125s as much or more than most, I've ridden...
As for the lack of 125s at pro events, I don't get this at all.

I love 125s as much or more than most, I've ridden them almost exclusively during my 30 years with the sport. But you know what?125s are SLOW. I wouldn't care to watch pros race them. Why would anyone want to watch pros or even expert amateurs compete on slow bikes, as opposed to pushing the limits of themselves and the track on the best equipment available?

There are plenty of local and amateur racing featuring 125s and minis. If you need to see them, head on down and support your local track during race day.
Last time Lammy tried it at a national on a 125 he didn't even qualify.
Had to use his past champion free pass to get in,because his practice times were so far off.
He went 33 & 30 for the day...for like 35th OA.
I thought for sure he was going to get at least a top 20...and earn at least a point that day.
But he got smoked badly by those 250F's and he was a really good 125 rider.
And he was only retired for 2 years and still rode very often.
Prolly would have been top 10 or 15 OA for the day on a 250F against that field.
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Foster576 10/20/2011 2:38pm
10/20/2011 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2011 2:40pm
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR. A 2 stroke series will not bring the masses at all either. You dont see tens of thousands of people lining up outside the gate waiting to watch Glen Helen 2 Stroke National. 2 stroke class is all about the nostalgia for the people that grew up racing in the 2 stroke era. Same reason there are vintage races. For the core folks. Did NASCAR get their top up and comers in10 year old cars and race them against lesser skilled racers in newer/better equipment during intermission to get to where they are now?
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:42pm
10/20/2011 2:42pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2011 2:46pm
Foster576 wrote:
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR...
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR. A 2 stroke series will not bring the masses at all either. You dont see tens of thousands of people lining up outside the gate waiting to watch Glen Helen 2 Stroke National. 2 stroke class is all about the nostalgia for the people that grew up racing in the 2 stroke era. Same reason there are vintage races. For the core folks. Did NASCAR get their top up and comers in10 year old cars and race them against lesser skilled racers in newer/better equipment during intermission to get to where they are now?
Have not the slightest idea what you are talking about?? First as you see in the post before yours, Lammy was way off the pace from the 250F's. Same thing would be said about amateur boys on a stock 125. So I still stand by my belief that it would be good racing. But it wasn't about bringing more people to races regarding that. It was about more people staying to watch the women and helping them make a step up, maybe even some TV time. Second, I've not and I don't believe anyone has said that 2 strokes will turn us into NASCAR. You need to go back and read everything that was written. It was about how our sport is closed minded, and the fact that NASCAR made themselves popular to the masses through very intelligent advertisement and marketing. Has nothing to do with the 2 vs 4 stroke in that department. Most of the points about 2 strokes vs 4 strokes is about letting us race cc vs cc. That will help our sport remain strong with costs staying down. 50/50 2 and 4 strokes would be great.
GuyB
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GuyB 10/20/2011 2:47pm
10/20/2011 2:47pm
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:49pm
10/20/2011 2:49pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]http://www.millsworks.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/writing_process.gif[/img]
Rest in Peace GuyB. Sorry to hear you stressed out so much to kill yourself. Sad.
burn1986
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burn1986 10/20/2011 2:53pm
10/20/2011 2:53pm
Foster576 wrote:
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR...
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR. A 2 stroke series will not bring the masses at all either. You dont see tens of thousands of people lining up outside the gate waiting to watch Glen Helen 2 Stroke National. 2 stroke class is all about the nostalgia for the people that grew up racing in the 2 stroke era. Same reason there are vintage races. For the core folks. Did NASCAR get their top up and comers in10 year old cars and race them against lesser skilled racers in newer/better equipment during intermission to get to where they are now?
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back. Does the sport need to be turned around or brought back? DC would tell you that fans attend in record numbers. The sport doesn't need to be saved yet. The fans will attend anyway, with or without a WMA or 125 class. There is just a strong following of the 125 class.
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 2:55pm
10/20/2011 2:55pm
Foster576 wrote:
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR...
Getting a few of the top AMs to beat up the womens pro class is not going to turn the sport around and compete with NASCAR. A 2 stroke series will not bring the masses at all either. You dont see tens of thousands of people lining up outside the gate waiting to watch Glen Helen 2 Stroke National. 2 stroke class is all about the nostalgia for the people that grew up racing in the 2 stroke era. Same reason there are vintage races. For the core folks. Did NASCAR get their top up and comers in10 year old cars and race them against lesser skilled racers in newer/better equipment during intermission to get to where they are now?
burn1986 wrote:
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back...
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back. Does the sport need to be turned around or brought back? DC would tell you that fans attend in record numbers. The sport doesn't need to be saved yet. The fans will attend anyway, with or without a WMA or 125 class. There is just a strong following of the 125 class.
I brought up the junior 16-17 year old boys on a stock 125 vs the WMX would be a very good race. Plus it would keep people watching the women, unlike right now. But you are correct on the other stuff.
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GuyB 10/20/2011 2:58pm
10/20/2011 2:58pm
burn1986 wrote:
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back...
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back. Does the sport need to be turned around or brought back? DC would tell you that fans attend in record numbers. The sport doesn't need to be saved yet. The fans will attend anyway, with or without a WMA or 125 class. There is just a strong following of the 125 class.
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Question-for-everyone-to-…

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miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 3:01pm
10/20/2011 3:01pm
burn1986 wrote:
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back...
No body said anything about racing the 125s with the girls anyway. No one said it would bring the masses back, or bring the sport back. Does the sport need to be turned around or brought back? DC would tell you that fans attend in record numbers. The sport doesn't need to be saved yet. The fans will attend anyway, with or without a WMA or 125 class. There is just a strong following of the 125 class.
GuyB wrote:
http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Question-for-everyone-to-…
Oh, cool, you didn't commit suicide. Glad to hear Guy. I like you, people like you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, don't hurt yourself, it won't do any good. Don't let the stress get to you. Being wrong is ok, just try to use facts, instead of your opinion and you can't go wrong. Facts save lives.
CRF107
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CRF107 10/20/2011 3:33pm
10/20/2011 3:33pm
I like go carts. They are a fast, fun, and relatively inexpensive form or road racing. Some NASCAR drivers have even come from go carting. So, should NASCAR then include go carts in the race weekend for up and coming racers to show their stuff?
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wawazat 10/20/2011 3:38pm
10/20/2011 3:38pm
CRF107 wrote:
I like go carts. They are a fast, fun, and relatively inexpensive form or road racing. Some NASCAR drivers have even come from go carting. So...
I like go carts. They are a fast, fun, and relatively inexpensive form or road racing. Some NASCAR drivers have even come from go carting. So, should NASCAR then include go carts in the race weekend for up and coming racers to show their stuff?
If they did, I'd probabley have an easier time trying to sell my two karts..
Premixed
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Premixed 10/20/2011 3:41pm
10/20/2011 3:41pm
so, does danica patrick think there needs to be a women's IRL series?

no, therefore the AMA needs to back-shelf the women's class and make motocross co-ed. you would think that by having a women's class that the AMA is gender friendly, but by virtue of having one it isn't. if they can run, then they can run.

you cant do 6 and 6 because the people who get stuck with a women's race would be pissed.

to make it more racer friendly, you could split it into east/west like 250sx. outdoor east and outdoor west. 6 and 6. that way you dont have people traveling in their pick up trucks from steel city to hangtown.
newmann
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newmann 10/20/2011 3:42pm
10/20/2011 3:42pm
CRF107 wrote:
I like go carts. They are a fast, fun, and relatively inexpensive form or road racing. Some NASCAR drivers have even come from go carting. So...
I like go carts. They are a fast, fun, and relatively inexpensive form or road racing. Some NASCAR drivers have even come from go carting. So, should NASCAR then include go carts in the race weekend for up and coming racers to show their stuff?
Honda tried to kick the karting world in the nuts by pushing their four stroke agenda I'm guessing. But the karting world kicked them right back to the point that the company that swore off two strokes forever now offers a complete CR125 karting engine "kit". Poor Honda, too much pride that they won't even assemble it for you, otherwise they'd have to admit that they were back in the two stroke biz. LMAO and Hooray for karting.
EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 10/20/2011 3:45pm
10/20/2011 3:45pm
To me, it's simple...

125
250
open

2 or 4 strokes...

There is time for all three classes on a Saturday...
newmann
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newmann 10/20/2011 3:45pm
10/20/2011 3:45pm
DC wrote:
Motocross is a very long day, and the attention span of today's audience is not what it used to be back when there were three classes...
Motocross is a very long day, and the attention span of today's audience is not what it used to be back when there were three classes, so I don't think people leave at 6 or 7 after being there since 9 or 10 in the morning because they don't want to watch women, but because they've seen enough, and it's time to go home. Please don't make this a replace-the-WMX-with-125s because that's not going to happen.

DC
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newmann wrote:
Six rounds WMA and six rounds 125 sounds really good to me. My question would be what would it really take to see the 125 class...
Six rounds WMA and six rounds 125 sounds really good to me. My question would be what would it really take to see the 125 class happen? Yamaha still makes one, KTM obviously saw a need to bring theirs back, Husqvarna has new headquarters here in the states and now sells theirs as a 125 with a150 top end included in the purchase. TM has a new importer and currently produces a 125. Is there really no interest in this? The Euro brands sure seem to have some new found interest in them here in the states and I keep seeing Uncle Donnie's ads in your magazine and others making a strong 2 stroke statement.
newmann wrote:
Bump?Blush
Bumpity Bump?Blush Blush
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 3:48pm
10/20/2011 3:48pm
newmann wrote:
Six rounds WMA and six rounds 125 sounds really good to me. My question would be what would it really take to see the 125 class...
Six rounds WMA and six rounds 125 sounds really good to me. My question would be what would it really take to see the 125 class happen? Yamaha still makes one, KTM obviously saw a need to bring theirs back, Husqvarna has new headquarters here in the states and now sells theirs as a 125 with a150 top end included in the purchase. TM has a new importer and currently produces a 125. Is there really no interest in this? The Euro brands sure seem to have some new found interest in them here in the states and I keep seeing Uncle Donnie's ads in your magazine and others making a strong 2 stroke statement.
newmann wrote:
Bump?Blush
newmann wrote:
Bumpity Bump?Blush Blush
Newmann, unfortunately, 250F's are the likely other 6 races with juniors on them. Just sayin. Hopefully KTM will come forth with some dough, but we'll see. I got a $1 riding on that bet. LOL
miedosoracing1 10/20/2011 3:49pm
10/20/2011 3:49pm
Premixed wrote:
so, does danica patrick think there needs to be a women's IRL series? no, therefore the AMA needs to back-shelf the women's class and make motocross...
so, does danica patrick think there needs to be a women's IRL series?

no, therefore the AMA needs to back-shelf the women's class and make motocross co-ed. you would think that by having a women's class that the AMA is gender friendly, but by virtue of having one it isn't. if they can run, then they can run.

you cant do 6 and 6 because the people who get stuck with a women's race would be pissed.

to make it more racer friendly, you could split it into east/west like 250sx. outdoor east and outdoor west. 6 and 6. that way you dont have people traveling in their pick up trucks from steel city to hangtown.
Exactly.. X1000, but the coed thingy got squashed already.
Premixed
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Premixed 10/20/2011 3:54pm
10/20/2011 3:54pm
hey DC,

if no one is watching the women's race, and in your opinion, no one will watch the 125 race, then whats the f*cking point in racing at all?

i know. since the day is so long, lets just save everyone a ton of money, and argue about who would win on the internet. you should start the Bercy and Dortmund threads up.

horrible.


ok, lets be constructive and optimistic (tough to do in 2011, i know) at the first SX, during the speed telecast of the event, rather than having a "text your vote" for "who has the coolest riding gear" why dont you have people text in their vote for this matter? i think you will find a virtually unanimous answer.

i can hear ralph sheheen now "text in your vote"... i can hear emig..."yea man i had a sweet 125 battle with mike larocco..." i can hear ricky carmichael in the background, making two-stroke noises byyaaaaaa bwawawawabyaaAAAP
machine
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machine 10/20/2011 4:14pm
10/20/2011 4:14pm
Look, lets face it, with this economy there is only so much money to go around. Some of these women are riding factory level bikes. That means someone like Alessi's caliber may miss out on a ride due to monies being tied up in the women's bikes and programs. That, in me opinion is wrong, no one gives two shit's about chicks on dirt bikes unless they are hot and laying across the seat ie: Transworld........ Smile



P.S. Don't shoot the messenger.......
TDeath21
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TDeath21 10/20/2011 4:40pm
10/20/2011 4:40pm
Until this year, didn't the Women's MX class have the best championship battle the past few years? I know for a fact those top girls are faster than me, and good racing is good racing. I don't care if it's a guy or girl, amateur or pro, young or old.

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