Does KTM bike still have more trouble ?

500guy
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9/6/2011 9:00pm
newmann wrote:
How many people here complained about the fuel pump breaking off on the KX450F a year or so ago?
500guy wrote:
That has nothing to do with Fuel Injection, I had a 2000 YZ250 and the fuel tank broke twice, = bad plastic with the newer Gas...
That has nothing to do with Fuel Injection, I had a 2000 YZ250 and the fuel tank broke twice, = bad plastic with the newer Gas that came out.

All these failures are because they go for cheap parts and have them made in China or somewhere cheaper.
newmann wrote:
A fuel pump breaking off has nothing to do with fuel injection??
The fuel pump breaking off is a design , material and manufacturing flaw. Fuel injection is much better than carburation, the execution of it on these bikes is what is flawed but you know that.
CamP
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9/6/2011 9:04pm
500guy wrote:
The fuel pump breaking off is a design , material and manufacturing flaw. Fuel injection is much better than carburation, the execution of it on these...
The fuel pump breaking off is a design , material and manufacturing flaw. Fuel injection is much better than carburation, the execution of it on these bikes is what is flawed but you know that.
How is FI better than a well tuned carb?
500guy
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9/6/2011 9:14pm
500guy wrote:
The fuel pump breaking off is a design , material and manufacturing flaw. Fuel injection is much better than carburation, the execution of it on these...
The fuel pump breaking off is a design , material and manufacturing flaw. Fuel injection is much better than carburation, the execution of it on these bikes is what is flawed but you know that.
CamP wrote:
How is FI better than a well tuned carb?
it makes more power, it's more efficient and is capable of adjusting to changes in weather as well as intake air temperature and coolant temperature.

Now I'm not saying that what is being put out there is all great, I'm just saying it should be, the work has been done, they are just not executing it.
davis224
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Fantasy
9/6/2011 9:20pm
dilbert354 wrote:
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer...
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer says it's fine cause it runs ok after sitting for a while but after riding for some time it quits and refuses to start. Absolute LAST KTM I EVER buy. Not to mention I was just informed by my dealer that my bike is scheduled for the bearing recall, yet I only knew about this because I was calling about another problem and they looked at my VIN. Not one mention of the recall came from KTM to my house or anything. Also, the dealer told me that for the recall they only give the techs 4.08 hours to complete it (was told it's about a 7-8 hour job!!) and anything over would come out of MY pocket. OUT OF MY F*ING POCKET for THEIR recall!!! UNBELIEVABLE. Can't wait to get this issue resolved so I can get rid of the POS.
Your dealer is fucking you. If the tech can't do it in the flat rate time, tough shit, he should learn to do it faster. That's the dealers cost to absorb, not to pawn off on you. With warranty flat rate, you make a killing on some and lose time on others, it evens out. Whoever OK'd the decision to charge you for how slow the tech is is a crook.

The Shop

9/6/2011 9:22pm
I miss my '93 CR250,more fun than my '06 kx450
500guy
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9/6/2011 9:26pm
FTE the bottom end blowing out on a highly modified bike ?

KTM numbers are low compared to the Big 4 but their recalls and problems seem to be much greater.
CamP
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9/6/2011 9:27pm
FI does not produce more power than a carb. In fact, the production bikes lost top end horsepower when they transitioned to FI.
Faceaz
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9/6/2011 9:31pm
CamP wrote:
FI does not produce more power than a carb. In fact, the production bikes lost top end horsepower when they transitioned to FI.
X2. I'd like to see one example where FI makes more power on a dirt bike.
500guy
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9/6/2011 9:34pm
CamP wrote:
FI does not produce more power than a carb. In fact, the production bikes lost top end horsepower when they transitioned to FI.
What happened and what should happen is not my problem, Stay stuck in the past, I don't give a shit
FreshTopEnd
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9/6/2011 9:35pm
500guy wrote:
FTE the bottom end blowing out on a highly modified bike ? KTM numbers are low compared to the Big 4 but their recalls and problems...
FTE the bottom end blowing out on a highly modified bike ?

KTM numbers are low compared to the Big 4 but their recalls and problems seem to be much greater.
So, because they fix it, but Honda played three monkies with their EFI/throttle body issues, KTM is the bad guy?

I will say this, I think the 350 has not sold like they expected. You have to scrap for a new smoker, but 350's seem to be readly available in this neck of the woods, at least the SX model.
CamP
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9/6/2011 9:41pm
CamP wrote:
FI does not produce more power than a carb. In fact, the production bikes lost top end horsepower when they transitioned to FI.
500guy wrote:
What happened and what should happen is not my problem, Stay stuck in the past, I don't give a shit
I'm not stuck in the past. In fact, I've always loved new technology, but I'm smart enough to know that the future of this sport depends on it being accessible to the masses and the cost of the current bikes is already pushing the envelope for the working class that makes up the lion's share of participants in this sport. Fuel injection is just one more unnecessary component that is driving the cost of racing up and out of reach for most people. If that's your idea of progress, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Mod Killer
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9/6/2011 9:58pm
different day.....same ignorant argument.



EFI at the pro level, is better. the pro's hated it at first, because it smoothed out the "hit". but there are major advantages to EFI. major advantages!

and for the average rider, not having to tune a carb is awesome and is easy to market.


fuck. its the same stupid argument over the steel vs aluminum frames. motogp bikes are aluminum....and they do it for a reason. i understand the advantages to steel, y'all dont need to list them. but do you understand the advantages to aluminum? obviously not.

same goes for EFI. just cause you are unaware of its benefits, doesnt mean there isnt any. its not just about fancy marketing and higher retail sales figures. i understand that plays a factor but if steel frames or carb's were really better, you'd see them in F1 and MGP.


some of you guys need to face the fact that there are people waaay smarter than you, building these bikes.
yosmithy
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9/6/2011 10:05pm
Are the FI motors more fuel efficient?
Are the emissions lower on a FI motor?
Are the FI motors easier to start?
Are the FI motors easier to reduce exhaust sound levels?
CamP
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9/6/2011 10:12pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 10:14pm
Mod Killer wrote:
different day.....same ignorant argument. EFI at the pro level, is better. the pro's hated it at first, because it smoothed out the "hit". but there are...
different day.....same ignorant argument.



EFI at the pro level, is better. the pro's hated it at first, because it smoothed out the "hit". but there are major advantages to EFI. major advantages!

and for the average rider, not having to tune a carb is awesome and is easy to market.


fuck. its the same stupid argument over the steel vs aluminum frames. motogp bikes are aluminum....and they do it for a reason. i understand the advantages to steel, y'all dont need to list them. but do you understand the advantages to aluminum? obviously not.

same goes for EFI. just cause you are unaware of its benefits, doesnt mean there isnt any. its not just about fancy marketing and higher retail sales figures. i understand that plays a factor but if steel frames or carb's were really better, you'd see them in F1 and MGP.


some of you guys need to face the fact that there are people waaay smarter than you, building these bikes.
That's all fine and dandy until you enter your local race and there are only three people on the line with you because the bikes have gotten stupid expensive. What's really sad is that our local vintage club gets better turnouts than the regular races.
CamP
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9/6/2011 10:19pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 10:20pm
yosmithy wrote:
Are the FI motors more fuel efficient? Are the emissions lower on a FI motor? Are the FI motors easier to start? Are the FI motors...
Are the FI motors more fuel efficient?
Are the emissions lower on a FI motor?
Are the FI motors easier to start?
Are the FI motors easier to reduce exhaust sound levels?
FI is more fuel efficient but it's hard to go far with a 1.5 gallon gas tank.

FI is capable of producing lower emissions. That's the #1 benefit of FI.

Are FI engines easier to start? My '08 CRF450 starts first kick, hot or cold.

FI doesn't, in and of itself, produce lower sound levels.
wildbill
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9/6/2011 10:24pm
CamP wrote:
So the solution is to make the bikes even more expensive with better FI components?

I've never had a carb fail.
that's cause you always downsloped the jump perfectly. Damm technician.

Try facing or overjumping there big guy...lol. Carbs fall the fuck off.
Faceaz
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9/6/2011 10:32pm
yosmithy wrote:
Are the FI motors more fuel efficient? Are the emissions lower on a FI motor? Are the FI motors easier to start? Are the FI motors...
Are the FI motors more fuel efficient?
Are the emissions lower on a FI motor?
Are the FI motors easier to start?
Are the FI motors easier to reduce exhaust sound levels?
CamP wrote:
FI is more fuel efficient but it's hard to go far with a 1.5 gallon gas tank. FI is capable of producing lower emissions. That's the...
FI is more fuel efficient but it's hard to go far with a 1.5 gallon gas tank.

FI is capable of producing lower emissions. That's the #1 benefit of FI.

Are FI engines easier to start? My '08 CRF450 starts first kick, hot or cold.

FI doesn't, in and of itself, produce lower sound levels.
LOL.. A carb'd 450sx is even easier to start than your CRF.
CamP
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9/6/2011 10:34pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 10:35pm
wildbill wrote:
that's cause you always downsloped the jump perfectly. Damm technician.

Try facing or overjumping there big guy...lol. Carbs fall the fuck off.
At my advanced age, I have stuff falling off even when I backside jumps perfectly. lol
Mod Killer
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9/6/2011 10:45pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 10:49pm
CamP wrote:
That's all fine and dandy until you enter your local race and there are only three people on the line with you because the bikes have...
That's all fine and dandy until you enter your local race and there are only three people on the line with you because the bikes have gotten stupid expensive. What's really sad is that our local vintage club gets better turnouts than the regular races.
agreed.


but it doesnt make EFI overrated or steel frames better than aluminum when talking performance. we all know, whats best for a participant driven sport aint necessarily good for performance of bikes and vice-versa.

i think that is maybe the big disconnect in the whole efi/carb/steel/aluminum/2stroke/thumper debate. some are arguing practicality while the others are arguing performance. its two totally different discussions but since the same parties are involved, people confuse the two and the debate rages on.


Faceaz, you have mail.
CamP
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9/6/2011 10:54pm
Mod Killer wrote:
agreed. but it doesnt make EFI overrated or steel frames better than aluminum when talking performance. we all know, whats best for a participant driven sport...
agreed.


but it doesnt make EFI overrated or steel frames better than aluminum when talking performance. we all know, whats best for a participant driven sport aint necessarily good for performance of bikes and vice-versa.

i think that is maybe the big disconnect in the whole efi/carb/steel/aluminum/2stroke/thumper debate. some are arguing practicality while the others are arguing performance. its two totally different discussions but since the same parties are involved, people confuse the two and the debate rages on.


Faceaz, you have mail.
I never said that steel frames are better than aluminum or that carbs are better than FI. That being said, it is more difficult to design an aluminum frame that works well for motocross because flex and resiliency are important components of frame design and FI has major issues in the wet and dirty world of moto. The fact that the KTM 450SX has won the last two MXA 450 shootouts does illustrate that steel and carbs aren't obsolete.
Mod Killer
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9/6/2011 11:07pm
they arent obsolete...yet.

and steel may never be, for the average rider or during a shootout on brand new bikes.

Yamaha's aluminum frame takes 8 hours to break in and then begin to handle the way it is intended too. I highly doubt MXA puts 8 hours on their Yamaha 450s before testing them up against the 450sx.

And I highly doubt that any of the MXA test riders are good enough to notice the changes in handling characteristics as the KTM's steel frame begins to wear down and loose its rigidity over time. Meanwhile, the aluminum frame holds its characteristics longer. (of course until it cracks without warning)

Hell, the aluminum chassis of MGP are still a work in progress. And so will it be the case for MX from here on out.

And when showroom bikes start coming equipped with traction control.....well by then even the two strokes will have direct injection. TC is coming. its on showroom sportbikes. and it will one day be on showroom mx bikes. i give it less than 5 years.


then maybe we will start seeing race teams with electronically controlled suspension.
Motodude
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9/6/2011 11:07pm
2T's are the thing to be on...EFI thumper$$$$$ are done.
CamP
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9/6/2011 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 11:50pm
Mod Killer wrote:
they arent obsolete...yet. and steel may never be, for the average rider or during a shootout on brand new bikes. Yamaha's aluminum frame takes 8 hours...
they arent obsolete...yet.

and steel may never be, for the average rider or during a shootout on brand new bikes.

Yamaha's aluminum frame takes 8 hours to break in and then begin to handle the way it is intended too. I highly doubt MXA puts 8 hours on their Yamaha 450s before testing them up against the 450sx.

And I highly doubt that any of the MXA test riders are good enough to notice the changes in handling characteristics as the KTM's steel frame begins to wear down and loose its rigidity over time. Meanwhile, the aluminum frame holds its characteristics longer. (of course until it cracks without warning)

Hell, the aluminum chassis of MGP are still a work in progress. And so will it be the case for MX from here on out.

And when showroom bikes start coming equipped with traction control.....well by then even the two strokes will have direct injection. TC is coming. its on showroom sportbikes. and it will one day be on showroom mx bikes. i give it less than 5 years.


then maybe we will start seeing race teams with electronically controlled suspension.
Don't discount MXA's testing procedures. MXA's primary test riders are Dennis Stapleton, Willy Musgrave, Larry Brooks and Austin Poletelli. Young and old, those guys are all fast.

In addition to racing Nationals and GP's, Stapleton was part of the R&D team at Honda that developed the first generation aluminum frame. Rich Taylor was also a Honda R&D test rider and he recently said in a dmxs interview that Stapleton is the best test rider he's ever known. According to Taylor, Stapleton can feel even the most minute changes in a bike. Stuff that nobody else would ever notice.

Willy Musgrave held a double digit number on the nationals for many years and is still fast. Obviously Brooks was super fast and can still get it done. Austin Poletelli is a 17yo that's won US Amatuer Nationals, Canadian Pro Nationals and European MX2 SX races.

No other magazine comes close to MXA when it comes to testing bikes.
Mod Killer
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9/6/2011 11:35pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 11:40pm
point taken. i stand corrected and apologize regarding mxa's test riders.

i let my disdain for MXA's "agenda" get in the way of the facts. my bad. its just that imo, any editorial with an agenda loses credibility in my book. but that is more a reflection of the mag itself, not its test riders. i screwed up.
CamP
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9/6/2011 11:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/6/2011 11:48pm
I tell you what, if the AMA and FIM don't put a stop to expensive developments like traction control, electronically controlled suspension and direct injection, you can kiss this sport good by because the bikes will soon cost over $10K and there will only be a handful of people willing to shell out that kind of dough for Junior to go racing. If you look at the OEM's historic sales data for competition dirt bike sales, the writing is on the wall.
MX690
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9/7/2011 12:11am
dilbert354 wrote:
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer...
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer says it's fine cause it runs ok after sitting for a while but after riding for some time it quits and refuses to start. Absolute LAST KTM I EVER buy. Not to mention I was just informed by my dealer that my bike is scheduled for the bearing recall, yet I only knew about this because I was calling about another problem and they looked at my VIN. Not one mention of the recall came from KTM to my house or anything. Also, the dealer told me that for the recall they only give the techs 4.08 hours to complete it (was told it's about a 7-8 hour job!!) and anything over would come out of MY pocket. OUT OF MY F*ING POCKET for THEIR recall!!! UNBELIEVABLE. Can't wait to get this issue resolved so I can get rid of the POS.
davis224 wrote:
Your dealer is fucking you. If the tech can't do it in the flat rate time, tough shit, he should learn to do it faster. That's...
Your dealer is fucking you. If the tech can't do it in the flat rate time, tough shit, he should learn to do it faster. That's the dealers cost to absorb, not to pawn off on you. With warranty flat rate, you make a killing on some and lose time on others, it evens out. Whoever OK'd the decision to charge you for how slow the tech is is a crook.
Yep davis224 knows whats up. Your dealer is bending you over the work bench and driving it home.
SoCalMX70
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9/7/2011 12:28am
dilbert354 wrote:
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer...
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer says it's fine cause it runs ok after sitting for a while but after riding for some time it quits and refuses to start. Absolute LAST KTM I EVER buy. Not to mention I was just informed by my dealer that my bike is scheduled for the bearing recall, yet I only knew about this because I was calling about another problem and they looked at my VIN. Not one mention of the recall came from KTM to my house or anything. Also, the dealer told me that for the recall they only give the techs 4.08 hours to complete it (was told it's about a 7-8 hour job!!) and anything over would come out of MY pocket. OUT OF MY F*ING POCKET for THEIR recall!!! UNBELIEVABLE. Can't wait to get this issue resolved so I can get rid of the POS.
Ing wrote:
Just think. If you had a Jap bike they don't hardly ever do recalls. Not that they don't have problems it's just they don't recall them...
Just think. If you had a Jap bike they don't hardly ever do recalls. Not that they don't have problems it's just they don't recall them. Seldom anyways. Best thing you can do is sell that damn KTM and buy a Suzuki. No recalls and you get to pay for the WHOLE thing out of your pocket. You don't have to have it fixed you know.
Heh, love it when people start taking jabs at Suzuki (as usual). Never had any problems with the Suzukis I've owned. And for the record, Suzuki recalled ALL of their '08 450s due to cases breaking and had them replaced with '09 spec cases (or entire motors for the showroom bikes because it was cheaper that way). You'd be hard pressed to find ANY '08 RM-Z 450 with actual '08 cases/motor sitting in the frame.
JB 19
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9/7/2011 3:53am Edited Date/Time 9/7/2011 3:55am
I think most guys are missing CamP's point. Its not an arguement of what is better. Its about the cost of dirt bikes going into the stratosphere.

I ride a 2007 crf 250 that was nearly new when I bought it used for 2 grand. I had to sit down one day and be honest with myself.........was the latest and greatest really going to put a bigger smile on my face when I'm riding?
Probably not.

I'm all for technology. I've owned turbo charged cars for ten years that I put bigger turbos on, bigger fuel systems, and rebuilt broken transmissions......I had an 04 cobra that was supercharged and I ran nitrous on top of that. .........and I tuned the cars myself on a laptop with software I bought. .........but there is a place for all that technology.........and dirt bikes ain't it.
9/7/2011 4:13am
dilbert354 wrote:
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer...
I have a 2011 KTM 350 SX-F and I've had to push it or get it towed the last 3 times I've taken it out. Dealer says it's fine cause it runs ok after sitting for a while but after riding for some time it quits and refuses to start. Absolute LAST KTM I EVER buy. Not to mention I was just informed by my dealer that my bike is scheduled for the bearing recall, yet I only knew about this because I was calling about another problem and they looked at my VIN. Not one mention of the recall came from KTM to my house or anything. Also, the dealer told me that for the recall they only give the techs 4.08 hours to complete it (was told it's about a 7-8 hour job!!) and anything over would come out of MY pocket. OUT OF MY F*ING POCKET for THEIR recall!!! UNBELIEVABLE. Can't wait to get this issue resolved so I can get rid of the POS.
The problem you have with your bike is a typical fuel injector problem. Change the injector and the bike will be fine. Try to be careful with the TPS-sensor when washing the bike aswell (but you probably knew that)
When it comes to the bearing change and motorsplitting you shouldnt pay a single dime!
If KTM doesnt pay for all of it your dealer should man up and show some customer support!

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