If you were so lucky, how would you do it?

EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida
Edited Date/Time 1/20/2012 9:05pm
Let’s say I was fortunate enough to inherit some prime real estate and some $ as well. Let’s say I’m considering giving back to the sport I love in running a track of my own.

What classes work to bring in more racers to fill the gates on a local level? This excluded special races – LL qualifiers, etc… Normal weekend racing classes...

Would this class structure work in your area?

50 Auto 15 min motos – are there enough to race or do they need their own track?
Jr 65 15 min motos
Sr 65 20 min motos
Jr Mini 20 min motos
Sr Mini 25 min motos
125 A 30 min motos
125 B 25 min motos
125 C 20 min motos
250 A 30 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
250 B 25 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
250 C 20 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
Open A 30 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)
Open B 25 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)
Open C 20 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)

This is a 10.5 hour day based on two motos w/o combining classes. It would need to be shortened to some degree.

I figure the age group classes would be covered at LL qualifiers and such. Is this still too many classes?

Would you rather race longer or have more classes (to get a trophy)?

Do riders show up to race or get a trophy? There may be different answers based on how long you’ve been racing. Today, I don’t need another trophy, but a new rider may really want one, and this is OK!

I’m looking for some constructive feedback and input. What can we do to build the participation at local races? How can I make my vision work?

This discussion is limited to classes and the length of the races. We’ll delve into the pricing, taxes, insurance, labor and all the other stuff a little later.

I’m looking forward to some great insights. There are so many on here that have years of experience and I’d like to tap that knowledge base.

Thanks!
|
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 5:45pm
8/31/2011 5:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 5:46pm
From experience, running races on time is a total pain in the ass. Someone will always bitch and complain saying it was too long or too short.
You also need to figure into your time how long it takes the last place guy to clear the track, and the next gate drop.
You need a break in there for flaggers, scorekeepers and staff

I do like the concept of making the races shorter or longer based on skill, but here's what you're going to hear..."Why am I paying the same as B class but racing less? That's not fair. I should get to pay less because I am riding less"
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 5:49pm
8/31/2011 5:49pm
flarider wrote:
From experience, running races on time is a total pain in the ass. Someone will always bitch and complain saying it was too long or too...
From experience, running races on time is a total pain in the ass. Someone will always bitch and complain saying it was too long or too short.
You also need to figure into your time how long it takes the last place guy to clear the track, and the next gate drop.
You need a break in there for flaggers, scorekeepers and staff

I do like the concept of making the races shorter or longer based on skill, but here's what you're going to hear..."Why am I paying the same as B class but racing less? That's not fair. I should get to pay less because I am riding less"
Excellent points! Should I charge less for C and B than I would for A?

I agree, time is tough to manage, but laps are tough too because of crashes and slow riders. I guess it seems "longer" based on time vs laps.

What about the classes? Are there too many or not enough? What about the trophy question? I know you're local, so you know what I'm comparing to.

Thanks
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
12986
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/31/2011 5:50pm
8/31/2011 5:50pm
An issue to consider is separating out vets; sometimes the older guys with a mind on making it to work Monday are less inclined to mix it up with younger guys whose frontal lobes aren't fully developed in the judgment area yet.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 5:53pm
8/31/2011 5:53pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 6:02pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
An issue to consider is separating out vets; sometimes the older guys with a mind on making it to work Monday are less inclined to mix...
An issue to consider is separating out vets; sometimes the older guys with a mind on making it to work Monday are less inclined to mix it up with younger guys whose frontal lobes aren't fully developed in the judgment area yet.
FTE, I thought about that too. As a VET rider myself, I agree with your points. But how do I manage to accomodate them (me) without diluting the desire to have strong gates?

What are the VETs' motivations for racing? A trophy or the fun of participating? For me, I don't need another trophy, but I want to compete in a larger field.

I'm looking for perspectives that may differ from my own.

Thanks

The Shop

See All »
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 6:01pm
8/31/2011 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 6:03pm
If I was in an "FU" position, where I didn't really have to make a profit, but just wanted to hold races, I'd completely change the class structure and do it my (the old) way.

85cc Nov/Exp
Supermini
125cc Nov/Exp
250cc (all) Nov/Exp
450cc+ (all) Nov/Exp
Vet 25
Vet 35
Vet 45+
Pro (all) 100% to 150% payback

All classes must have a 5 racer minimum, otherwise they get rolled into another class
speedy mendeavel 8/31/2011 6:02pm
8/31/2011 6:02pm
EastFlorida wrote:
Let’s say I was fortunate enough to inherit some prime real estate and some $ as well. Let’s say I’m considering giving back to the sport...
Let’s say I was fortunate enough to inherit some prime real estate and some $ as well. Let’s say I’m considering giving back to the sport I love in running a track of my own.

What classes work to bring in more racers to fill the gates on a local level? This excluded special races – LL qualifiers, etc… Normal weekend racing classes...

Would this class structure work in your area?

50 Auto 15 min motos – are there enough to race or do they need their own track?
Jr 65 15 min motos
Sr 65 20 min motos
Jr Mini 20 min motos
Sr Mini 25 min motos
125 A 30 min motos
125 B 25 min motos
125 C 20 min motos
250 A 30 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
250 B 25 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
250 C 20 min motos (250 2 stroke & 250 4 stroke)
Open A 30 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)
Open B 25 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)
Open C 20 min motos (250cc + 2 & 4 stroke)

This is a 10.5 hour day based on two motos w/o combining classes. It would need to be shortened to some degree.

I figure the age group classes would be covered at LL qualifiers and such. Is this still too many classes?

Would you rather race longer or have more classes (to get a trophy)?

Do riders show up to race or get a trophy? There may be different answers based on how long you’ve been racing. Today, I don’t need another trophy, but a new rider may really want one, and this is OK!

I’m looking for some constructive feedback and input. What can we do to build the participation at local races? How can I make my vision work?

This discussion is limited to classes and the length of the races. We’ll delve into the pricing, taxes, insurance, labor and all the other stuff a little later.

I’m looking forward to some great insights. There are so many on here that have years of experience and I’d like to tap that knowledge base.

Thanks!
Sell it, buy Broome Tioga, get the track exactly how it was at the last national held there, beg DC and others to make 13 national rounds instead of 12, and let me work for youWink .....
Jake-247
Profile picture for user Jake-247
Posts
948
Joined
10/21/2009
Location
Queensland AU
Jake-247 8/31/2011 6:06pm
8/31/2011 6:06pm
flarider wrote:
If I was in an "FU" position, where I didn't really have to make a profit, but just wanted to hold races, I'd completely change the...
If I was in an "FU" position, where I didn't really have to make a profit, but just wanted to hold races, I'd completely change the class structure and do it my (the old) way.

85cc Nov/Exp
Supermini
125cc Nov/Exp
250cc (all) Nov/Exp
450cc+ (all) Nov/Exp
Vet 25
Vet 35
Vet 45+
Pro (all) 100% to 150% payback

All classes must have a 5 racer minimum, otherwise they get rolled into another class
So your 250cc class includes both 250 four strokes and 250 two strokes? Smile
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 6:07pm
8/31/2011 6:07pm
flarider wrote:
If I was in an "FU" position, where I didn't really have to make a profit, but just wanted to hold races, I'd completely change the...
If I was in an "FU" position, where I didn't really have to make a profit, but just wanted to hold races, I'd completely change the class structure and do it my (the old) way.

85cc Nov/Exp
Supermini
125cc Nov/Exp
250cc (all) Nov/Exp
450cc+ (all) Nov/Exp
Vet 25
Vet 35
Vet 45+
Pro (all) 100% to 150% payback

All classes must have a 5 racer minimum, otherwise they get rolled into another class
Flarider,

So you'd forego the 50 auto and 65 classes?

I'm with you on the Nov/Exp classes.

Is there enough to support the multiple VET classes?

What length motos would you say might work?

No 250 and Open pro? All Open pro regardless of displacment?

How would you break down the 85 Nov/Exp and Super Mini? By age or skill?

Great input!
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 6:09pm
8/31/2011 6:09pm
Speedy, I'm FL only and really don't want a Pro National! Way too many problems I would suspect...
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
12986
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/31/2011 6:12pm
8/31/2011 6:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 6:15pm
There's probably more than one answer to a lot of your questions and you need to get the right mix. Like all local marketing, understand who would be coming to your track. What are the bigger classes in your area?

It may be that you adapt. Run a Vet C/B mixed class once to see if you pull a lot of guys in there from one of the others, and the ask those guys about what they want. I am assuming the A guys are fast enough that they want to race with other fast guys in a normal class and their risk/pleasure threshhold may be more aligned there.

I just know that the last time I raced, albeit a long time ago, there were guys in the C class that weren't any more skilled than me, but thought they were, and those guys can make you grayer faster. I mean, in the last moto I raced I was tooling around to wrap it up after a crash when I hear this guy pinned just before he cleaned me out in the last turn. He hit me so hard my bike went under the fence. Totally over his head for 35th or something. The most dangerous thing in moto IMO are guys riding over their heads. Absence of fear and lack of skill is a bad mix.
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 6:18pm
8/31/2011 6:18pm
EastFlorida wrote:
Flarider, So you'd forego the 50 auto and 65 classes? I'm with you on the Nov/Exp classes. Is there enough to support the multiple VET classes...
Flarider,

So you'd forego the 50 auto and 65 classes?

I'm with you on the Nov/Exp classes.

Is there enough to support the multiple VET classes?

What length motos would you say might work?

No 250 and Open pro? All Open pro regardless of displacment?

How would you break down the 85 Nov/Exp and Super Mini? By age or skill?

Great input!
Forgot Pee-wee and 65's
So, add;

Pee-wee (all)
65cc Nov/Exp

Mini would be by skill, as with all classes. In mini, I think age is almost silly in some instances, especially on a local level. Biggest problem high level mini riders have is racing good competition, because it's all split up. I used to fight with parents who wanted to let their mini kids race in 125cc classes to get the competition, so throw all Exp Mini's together

You can offer the multiple Vet classes, but again there's a minimum required number of riders to run the class. Not enough 35+, roll 'em down to 25+
Not enough 250 Exp, roll 'em up into 450 Exp...stiffer competition never hurt anyone.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 6:19pm
8/31/2011 6:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 6:21pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
There's probably more than one answer to a lot of your questions and you need to get the right mix. Like all local marketing, understand who...
There's probably more than one answer to a lot of your questions and you need to get the right mix. Like all local marketing, understand who would be coming to your track. What are the bigger classes in your area?

It may be that you adapt. Run a Vet C/B mixed class once to see if you pull a lot of guys in there from one of the others, and the ask those guys about what they want. I am assuming the A guys are fast enough that they want to race with other fast guys in a normal class and their risk/pleasure threshhold may be more aligned there.

I just know that the last time I raced, albeit a long time ago, there were guys in the C class that weren't any more skilled than me, but thought they were, and those guys can make you grayer faster. I mean, in the last moto I raced I was tooling around to wrap it up after a crash when I hear this guy pinned just before he cleaned me out in the last turn. He hit me so hard my bike went under the fence. Totally over his head for 35th or something. The most dangerous thing in moto IMO are guys riding over their heads. Absence of fear and lack of skill is a bad mix.
FTE,

Solid position. I know Flarider is local, so I'm looking for his insight on this as well.

I agree that a 20 something on the track with me (a 40 something) of equal skill may not be the best situation despite the fact we can turn similar lap times.

As the VET scene seems to have more riders than the younger crowd these days, it may be better to taylor the classes to support those with some equity in the game.

It is tough to find the right mix to give the riders what they want. Quality time in a race situation.

Practice is fun, but competition is better in the right realm.
stash124
Profile picture for user stash124
Posts
300
Joined
8/3/2010
Location
TN US
stash124 8/31/2011 6:45pm
8/31/2011 6:45pm
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 6:48pm
8/31/2011 6:48pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
Stash,

So, how would you do it?

The complaint is that the races take all day and there is very little track time.

How do you add track time and not spend the whole day when additional classes are added?

Can't please everyone, but to fill the gates, you need to please as many as you can.

How do you do that?
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 6:50pm
8/31/2011 6:50pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
Bring me 5 women, you got a class, otherwise they race with the guys in the appropriate class.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 6:53pm
8/31/2011 6:53pm
Flarider,

What ever happened to the guy in Merritt Island that was going to build a MX complex? Do you know who I'm talking about?
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
12986
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/31/2011 6:54pm
8/31/2011 6:54pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
If people can get two 30 minute motos, maybe one class is enough.
mx400bee
Profile picture for user mx400bee
Posts
237
Joined
7/1/2010
Location
Kannapolis, NC US
mx400bee 8/31/2011 7:16pm
8/31/2011 7:16pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
If people can get two 30 minute motos, maybe one class is enough.
Especially, if it`s a sand track.

Pit Row

See All »
adamdf
Profile picture for user adamdf
Posts
2129
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
St. Michael BB
adamdf 8/31/2011 7:16pm
8/31/2011 7:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 7:17pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
flarider wrote:
Bring me 5 women, you got a class, otherwise they race with the guys in the appropriate class.
Hey Dave, i got a question for ya, i used to visit Pepsi Air dania back in the day when i flew up to Florida from Barbados, i met you there many years back when you were starting up engine ice, the guys at Palmetto motorsports used to hook me up with a bike, i know that pepsi air danie has been shutdown, but what tracks close to Palmetto, if any, would you recommend? I'm thinking of making another trip up some time soon.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 7:23pm
8/31/2011 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 8/31/2011 7:24pm
stash124 wrote:
you're also forgetting the women and girls classes. plus the structure your trying to make, makes it harder for people to run multiple classes.
FreshTopEnd wrote:
If people can get two 30 minute motos, maybe one class is enough.
mx400bee wrote:
Especially, if it`s a sand track.
It would be mostly a sand track. Not too many of them around any more as dirt is brought in. Sand is tough and I like it! A throw back track to test the riders. Not all sand, but the majority... keep it pinned!
mx400bee
Profile picture for user mx400bee
Posts
237
Joined
7/1/2010
Location
Kannapolis, NC US
mx400bee 8/31/2011 7:39pm
8/31/2011 7:39pm
The last sand track I raced on was in Lake City about 18 months ago. Track prep was perfect and it was a total blast. Best track I`ve ever ridden.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 7:42pm
8/31/2011 7:42pm
mx400bee wrote:
The last sand track I raced on was in Lake City about 18 months ago. Track prep was perfect and it was a total blast. Best...
The last sand track I raced on was in Lake City about 18 months ago. Track prep was perfect and it was a total blast. Best track I`ve ever ridden.
MX,

What class would/do you ride?
.
FastEddy
Profile picture for user FastEddy
Posts
14818
Joined
8/3/2008
Location
💀, FL US
FastEddy 8/31/2011 7:45pm
8/31/2011 7:45pm
Honestly, in this day & age I would lean more towards starting a huge indoor track/complex (I'm not talking AX....more of a SX size just toned down some).Have a full scale 24 hour GYM/fitness center built also with an indoor oval bike cycle & running track a big pool & tennis courts.
Have a hotel attached with also RV parking/hook up amenities.
You could also add dealership & service center into the entire facility.
I think that would bring people in to fill the gates. Smile
......anyway I'm starting to wake up now,but dreaming is always fun.
dirtbikemike 8/31/2011 7:45pm
8/31/2011 7:45pm
keep it to 20 or less classes based on local turnout. yes, roll those with less than 5 into another class. charge everyone the same entry fee. why do pros have to pay more? if you pay a %, then it's their money anyway. never have liked that. i let peewee riders race free at some of my events. you get the gate fee from everyone in their family. start on time. don't waste time between motos. don't have a one hour intermission to water, take a crap or whatever. i've seen track owners walking towards an empty water truck to fill it up after the first motos are over. why wasn't it ready to go right on the track as soon as the last rider went by? if you have 20 motos and you waste just 1 minute between motos and you do that twice.....you just added 40 minutes to the program. that 40 plus intermission, plus any injury down time equals the dreaded "we gonna cut laps in the second motos". i've never gotten a refund when that happens......ever. put a clock on a few riders and base your number of laps to fit your time slot. the first string of motos should be 3 1/2 hours or less, add a 30 minute intermission and the second motos, you should be done by 5pm if you start on time, say 930am. a rider's meeting at a local race is a joke. half the riders know more than you do and all they want to know is when do they race and how long. that's done over the pa and posted. i hand out a rider's meeting sheet with all the info except race order and laps on it at the gate. saves at least 45 minutes. could work for you, has for me for a long time. dbm
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 7:55pm
8/31/2011 7:55pm
dirtbikemike wrote:
keep it to 20 or less classes based on local turnout. yes, roll those with less than 5 into another class. charge everyone the same entry...
keep it to 20 or less classes based on local turnout. yes, roll those with less than 5 into another class. charge everyone the same entry fee. why do pros have to pay more? if you pay a %, then it's their money anyway. never have liked that. i let peewee riders race free at some of my events. you get the gate fee from everyone in their family. start on time. don't waste time between motos. don't have a one hour intermission to water, take a crap or whatever. i've seen track owners walking towards an empty water truck to fill it up after the first motos are over. why wasn't it ready to go right on the track as soon as the last rider went by? if you have 20 motos and you waste just 1 minute between motos and you do that twice.....you just added 40 minutes to the program. that 40 plus intermission, plus any injury down time equals the dreaded "we gonna cut laps in the second motos". i've never gotten a refund when that happens......ever. put a clock on a few riders and base your number of laps to fit your time slot. the first string of motos should be 3 1/2 hours or less, add a 30 minute intermission and the second motos, you should be done by 5pm if you start on time, say 930am. a rider's meeting at a local race is a joke. half the riders know more than you do and all they want to know is when do they race and how long. that's done over the pa and posted. i hand out a rider's meeting sheet with all the info except race order and laps on it at the gate. saves at least 45 minutes. could work for you, has for me for a long time. dbm
I've experienced the same things as a racer. I want those common experiences to go away.

In your opinion, do most track owners race and understand the issues you've raised?
mx400bee
Profile picture for user mx400bee
Posts
237
Joined
7/1/2010
Location
Kannapolis, NC US
mx400bee 8/31/2011 7:57pm
8/31/2011 7:57pm
I`m creeping up on 60 so it would have to be Modern "C". 20 minutes x2 + practice would be all that I could handle these days. The Lake City race was 10 min. motos and I really had to push it to finish where I did.
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 8:00pm
8/31/2011 8:00pm
mx400bee wrote:
I`m creeping up on 60 so it would have to be Modern "C". 20 minutes x2 + practice would be all that I could handle these...
I`m creeping up on 60 so it would have to be Modern "C". 20 minutes x2 + practice would be all that I could handle these days. The Lake City race was 10 min. motos and I really had to push it to finish where I did.
MX400,

Great feedback. Did you like the 10 mins or were you wanting more? 15, 20 25 mins? Share your thoughts...
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 8:02pm
8/31/2011 8:02pm
adamdf wrote:
Hey Dave, i got a question for ya, i used to visit Pepsi Air dania back in the day when i flew up to Florida from...
Hey Dave, i got a question for ya, i used to visit Pepsi Air dania back in the day when i flew up to Florida from Barbados, i met you there many years back when you were starting up engine ice, the guys at Palmetto motorsports used to hook me up with a bike, i know that pepsi air danie has been shutdown, but what tracks close to Palmetto, if any, would you recommend? I'm thinking of making another trip up some time soon.
That's cool, did not know that

Your only real choice is Thundercross in Okeechobee, about 2-2.5 hrs north
flarider
Profile picture for user flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL US
flarider 8/31/2011 8:02pm
8/31/2011 8:02pm
EastFlorida wrote:
Flarider,

What ever happened to the guy in Merritt Island that was going to build a MX complex? Do you know who I'm talking about?
No, I don't
EastFlorida
Profile picture for user EastFlorida
Posts
2334
Joined
7/31/2010
Location
Merritt Island, FL US
EastFlorida 8/31/2011 8:08pm
8/31/2011 8:08pm
EastFlorida wrote:
Flarider,

What ever happened to the guy in Merritt Island that was going to build a MX complex? Do you know who I'm talking about?
flarider wrote:
No, I don't
Dave,

I'll find the info and post it. You'll know the name when you see it. Large family presence in the area. The guy's son was racing 65's and might have moved to 85's a few years back. He was pushing it hard for a while then it fell off. Don't know if the boy lost interest or not.

Let me see what I can send. Maybe he might be inclined to participate in the future.

Post a reply to: If you were so lucky, how would you do it?