no penelty for dungey?

CamP wrote:

The AMA rules state that there is a 10mph speed limit in the pits.

Nerd wrote:

There's a rule about speeding between the paddock and the race track? Care to tell me where? And who "forgot"? Because I got my info directly...

There's a rule about speeding between the paddock and the race track?

Care to tell me where?

And who "forgot"? Because I got my info directly from an official.

CamP wrote:

The AMA rules state that there is a 10mph speed limit in the pits.

dirtworldmx wrote:

Pretty sure that rule was removed recently....as in last weekend

Nerd wrote:

There's a rule about speeding between the paddock and the race track? Care to tell me where? And who "forgot"? Because I got my info directly...

There's a rule about speeding between the paddock and the race track?

Care to tell me where?

And who "forgot"? Because I got my info directly from an official.

sc961 wrote:

Steve, stop clouding this thread with facts from people that were on site and have authority at the race track. We don't need any of that...

Steve, stop clouding this thread with facts from people that were on site and have authority at the race track.

We don't need any of that here...

Nerd wrote:

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him...

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him riding through the actual pits, and he wasn't speeding. Luckily, the Suzuki semi was parked the absolute closest of any semi to the beginning of the access road, so he was able to haul ass within 20 yards or so of leaving the awning.

Nerd wrote:

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him...

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him riding through the actual pits, and he wasn't speeding. Luckily, the Suzuki semi was parked the absolute closest of any semi to the beginning of the access road, so he was able to haul ass within 20 yards or so of leaving the awning.

sc961 wrote:

I think we'd better look into prefferential treatment of the Suzuki pits! There is probably some rule out there stating fair pit parking is mandatory. Should...

I think we'd better look into prefferential treatment of the Suzuki pits!

There is probably some rule out there stating fair pit parking is mandatory.

Should there be some extra penelty for this kind of bullshit special treatment Ryan and Team Suzuki recieved at the Wick?

CamP wrote:

The AMA rules state that there is a 10mph speed limit in the pits.

dirtworldmx wrote:

Pretty sure that rule was removed recently....as in last weekend

Nerd wrote:

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him...

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him riding through the actual pits, and he wasn't speeding. Luckily, the Suzuki semi was parked the absolute closest of any semi to the beginning of the access road, so he was able to haul ass within 20 yards or so of leaving the awning.

dirtworldmx wrote:

Pretty sure that rule was removed recently....as in last weekend

Nerd wrote:

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him...

He wasn't speeding in the pits. He was speeding on the road from the pits to the track. I have video on my iPhone of him riding through the actual pits, and he wasn't speeding. Luckily, the Suzuki semi was parked the absolute closest of any semi to the beginning of the access road, so he was able to haul ass within 20 yards or so of leaving the awning.

CamP wrote:

That is a gray area.

TripleFive wrote:

Goose was pinned in 3rd or 4th gear with no helmet on and almost hit Guyb. This could have easily turned into a serious injury or...

Goose was pinned in 3rd or 4th gear with no helmet on and almost hit Guyb.

This could have easily turned into a serious injury or even a fatality.

Can you imagine what this would've done for the sport???

jmar wrote:

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules...

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules. And everyone isn't held to the same set of rules.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

[b]Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black...

Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black and white, speeding on the access road to the track, which by definition is NOT THE PADDOCK, is not against the rules.

Not that I want to argue with Steve, because I'd rather have hemorrhoids, but he's wrong. By those definitions, the road at Southwick is "paddock" area far more than it is "pit" area. Both by the definition and the actual access at Southwick. It's grey or gray (both are acceptable spellings) at best

That said, no one would say it was safe to go that fast there, and no one in Goose's situation would do anything different, and unless there's some defined penalty it would be foolish to penalize anybody, and most foolish to make it a competitive penalty against Dungey.

jmar wrote:

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules...

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules. And everyone isn't held to the same set of rules.

Nerd wrote:

Where's the gray? As Jammin already posted: 2.8 Pit / Paddock Regulations d. Operation of a motor vehicle, including but not limited to a motorcycle, golf...

Where's the gray?

As Jammin already posted:

2.8 Pit / Paddock Regulations

d. Operation of a motor vehicle, including but not limited to a motorcycle, golf cart, ATV, or utility vehicle, in the paddock must be at a very slow, acceptable speed (10 MPH maximum).

Glossary: The following definitions and abbreviations are adopted for use in these Rules.

Paddock - Designated area primarily used for maintenance of event-entered competition motorcycles. May also include parking area for motorcycle transport and support vehicles

Pits - Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is limited to mechanics, officials or those with appropriate track pass credentials


You'll notice it defines a speed limit in the PADDOCK and the PADDOCK ONLY. The PADDOCK is defined above as ONLY the area where the bikes are maintained. The PITS are defined as what could be considered to be the entry road from the paddock to the race track, but there is NOT A SPEED LIMIT IN THE RULEBOOK FOR THAT.

Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black and white, speeding on the access road to the track, which by definition is NOT THE PADDOCK, is not against the rules.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

[b]Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black...

Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black and white, speeding on the access road to the track, which by definition is NOT THE PADDOCK, is not against the rules.

Not that I want to argue with Steve, because I'd rather have hemorrhoids, but he's wrong. By those definitions, the road at Southwick is "paddock" area far more than it is "pit" area. Both by the definition and the actual access at Southwick. It's grey or gray (both are acceptable spellings) at best

That said, no one would say it was safe to go that fast there, and no one in Goose's situation would do anything different, and unless there's some defined penalty it would be foolish to penalize anybody, and most foolish to make it a competitive penalty against Dungey.

jmar wrote:

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules...

I don't agree with it, but AMA rules are like American politics. There is a lot of grey in the AMA rulebook and promoters paddock rules. And everyone isn't held to the same set of rules.

Nerd wrote:

Where's the gray? As Jammin already posted: 2.8 Pit / Paddock Regulations d. Operation of a motor vehicle, including but not limited to a motorcycle, golf...

Where's the gray?

As Jammin already posted:

2.8 Pit / Paddock Regulations

d. Operation of a motor vehicle, including but not limited to a motorcycle, golf cart, ATV, or utility vehicle, in the paddock must be at a very slow, acceptable speed (10 MPH maximum).

Glossary: The following definitions and abbreviations are adopted for use in these Rules.

Paddock - Designated area primarily used for maintenance of event-entered competition motorcycles. May also include parking area for motorcycle transport and support vehicles

Pits - Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is limited to mechanics, officials or those with appropriate track pass credentials


You'll notice it defines a speed limit in the PADDOCK and the PADDOCK ONLY. The PADDOCK is defined above as ONLY the area where the bikes are maintained. The PITS are defined as what could be considered to be the entry road from the paddock to the race track, but there is NOT A SPEED LIMIT IN THE RULEBOOK FOR THAT.

Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black and white, speeding on the access road to the track, which by definition is NOT THE PADDOCK, is not against the rules.

jmar wrote:

I guess I should have said, the paddock rules were grey when I was involved in a few race teams. Been out of it for years...

I guess I should have said, the paddock rules were grey when I was involved in a few race teams.

Been out of it for years, but clear channel paddock rules were not enforced on everyone. I highly doubt that anything has changed. But if you want to prove your point, I am all ears.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

[b]Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black...

Where does the "gray" come in? They addressed speed. They addressed where it was important. They defined that area. According to the AMA rulebook, in black and white, speeding on the access road to the track, which by definition is NOT THE PADDOCK, is not against the rules.

Not that I want to argue with Steve, because I'd rather have hemorrhoids, but he's wrong. By those definitions, the road at Southwick is "paddock" area far more than it is "pit" area. Both by the definition and the actual access at Southwick. It's grey or gray (both are acceptable spellings) at best

That said, no one would say it was safe to go that fast there, and no one in Goose's situation would do anything different, and unless there's some defined penalty it would be foolish to penalize anybody, and most foolish to make it a competitive penalty against Dungey.

jmar wrote:

BTW: I am not saying that Ryan needs to be penalized. I am saying that not everyone lives by the same rules.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

[b]The "pits" definition is almost exactly what the road is: Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is...

The "pits" definition is almost exactly what the road is: Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is limited to mechanics, officials or those with appropriate track pass credentials.

It's not that limited on that road. There were a lot of people heading up and down that road all day that were spectators or others with VIP passes accessing special seating areas, some of them ferried in carts by staff. Those people didn't have the passes you, I and the team members do to access the gates further down that admitted you to staging, the gate, track and mechanics area. And the security people down there at those gates screened those people out. It's an artifact of the way Southwick is laid out. So, you're wrong.

nc_mx_kid wrote:

Ryan Dungey wasnt penalized or anything for GOOSE ripping thru the pits but I was helping a privateer out a few years ago and we got...

Ryan Dungey wasnt penalized or anything for GOOSE ripping thru the pits but I was helping a privateer out a few years ago and we got a front flat in practice #2, came in swapped it and headed back thru the pits in 1ST gear and back onto the track for a few timed laps.
@ the finish of practice my rider was BLACK flagged and no time laps recorded for "speeding in the pits" Rules only apply to the privateers..............

FROM MXA You thought that everything was good to go at that point?
Yeah, but as I was getting my stuff on to go down to the line I yelled to another mechanic to get the bike started, but it wouldn’t fire. I started screaming! We popped the fuel tank off again, and no fuel was coming out. We switched the fuel pump out, and the tank was full of fuel, and the bike still wouldn’t start. Then we switched out all of the electrical components. The bike finally fired up. I jumped on the bike and pulled out of the pits. I almost hit Steve Giberson [Vital MX Reporter]. He wasn’t watching, and I was pinned in third or fourth gear on wet pavement going downhill. I was screaming and whiskey throttling the bike, but he still didn’t hear me. I ended up stopping with about half of an inch to spare of hitting him without crashing the bike. Ryan was down on the line without his goggles on, so he took them out of my fanny pack. I had the bike in gear with the clutch pulled in. He jumped on the bike and stalled it. At that point I thought that we were done, because twice in the pits the bike ran but then wouldn’t start once it was shut off. However, Ryan started the bike on the first kick

jammin76tx wrote:

Do you feel Dungey should be penalized?

Nerd wrote:

I think you could argue that VIP passes are considered "appropriate track credentials", but regardless, the paddock is clearly defined, and it certainly doesn't meat that...

I think you could argue that VIP passes are considered "appropriate track credentials", but regardless, the paddock is clearly defined, and it certainly doesn't meat that definition whatsoever.

Outside of the credential issue, leaving that aside for the moment, the road is still directly adjacent to the racetrack, includes staging and signal zones (as the lane for motorcycles that is bannered off, I would consider to be in the function of staging).

Right or no?

I still am having trouble seeing how the road is closer to "paddock" as defined in the rulebook than to "pits" when "paddock" is basically defined as where they park the trucks and work on the bikes, neither of which happens on that road.

FreshTopEnd wrote:

[b]The "pits" definition is almost exactly what the road is: Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is...

The "pits" definition is almost exactly what the road is: Designated area directly adjacent to the racetrack that may include staging and signal zones. Access is limited to mechanics, officials or those with appropriate track pass credentials.

It's not that limited on that road. There were a lot of people heading up and down that road all day that were spectators or others with VIP passes accessing special seating areas, some of them ferried in carts by staff. Those people didn't have the passes you, I and the team members do to access the gates further down that admitted you to staging, the gate, track and mechanics area. And the security people down there at those gates screened those people out. It's an artifact of the way Southwick is laid out. So, you're wrong.

Nerd wrote:

I think you could argue that VIP passes are considered "appropriate track credentials", but regardless, the paddock is clearly defined, and it certainly doesn't meat that...

I think you could argue that VIP passes are considered "appropriate track credentials", but regardless, the paddock is clearly defined, and it certainly doesn't meat that definition whatsoever.

Outside of the credential issue, leaving that aside for the moment, the road is still directly adjacent to the racetrack, includes staging and signal zones (as the lane for motorcycles that is bannered off, I would consider to be in the function of staging).

Right or no?

I still am having trouble seeing how the road is closer to "paddock" as defined in the rulebook than to "pits" when "paddock" is basically defined as where they park the trucks and work on the bikes, neither of which happens on that road.