best knee braces for your money?

FLmxer
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FLmxer 8/5/2011 12:42pm
8/5/2011 12:42pm
All the best to all the injured. I hope comfort finds you. Many years ago I told my doctor that I wanted knee braces and she asked me what was wrong with my knees. I told her nothing but the risk is there and very common in my sport. She wrote me a script for them and I brought them to a medical supply that sells CTI and had them made. Insurance paid for them but i saw what they charged and it was $1000 per brace and $500 for each knee cup. lol I would feel like I forgot my boots with out them. I know dozens of people who have had broken femurs and all are doing very well and I know a bunch with knee issues and the knee issues are very sad. My braces have saved me so many times for sure just from bikes colliding and crashes where I landed on boulders, trees, bikes and bodies let alone the knee twisting jolts and cartwheels over the years. My knees are 100% for now. As for the neck brace I had one that I won for a year a never wore it as I was not sold on them even though I believe anything on your body has to help in some way. The second time I wore it I yard darted about 90 feet on my head and I was glad to have had it on. Everyone that saw it also said thank god for your Leatt. I have worn it since. I love this sport. lol Always "Healing to suffer again" can't wait.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/6/2011 5:33pm
8/6/2011 5:33pm
Huckster wrote:
I had asterisk and sold them. they were ok until I blew out my acl and got a CTI through insurance. NO comparison. I bought a...
I had asterisk and sold them. they were ok until I blew out my acl and got a CTI through insurance. NO comparison. I bought a EVS Web for my healthy knee and did not like it. I still have it if anyone is interested. Its a large Web for the left knee. $120 and its yours. I am going to try the Pod.

You guys should check out Dr, Mark Sanders over at Thumper talk and what he has to say about Brace vs no brace. He did a study on braces and the effect on prevention of injury and came up with some interesting findings.
I have read all of Dr Sanders stuff. I have also visited his clinic's webpage. No offense, but I will get my ortho advice elsewhere.

I have talked to 6 separate physicians--3 specifically knee specialists. One of them was Dr Glen Johnson. Dr Johnson is a huge proponent of Dr. Sanders mentor, Dr Shelbourne at SUNY. For some reason, these guys are still pushing bone-patellar-bone grafts hardcore for ACL reconstruction and just absolutely bashing other methods. The younger physicians I spoke to have all been saying hamstring graft first, then cadaver material, and then bone-pateller-bone graft. The b-p-b graft results in multiple large scars (one big one in front) and a lot of pain in the front of the knee after surgery--not to mention bone removal (weakening potentially) from your knee cap. I personally used a partial hamstring graft with partial cadaver material and two weeks out you can only see one of the 5 incisions (~2 inches long), the 4 others were less then 1CM each. I have very minimal soreness at this point as well, and rehab looks very promising.

The physician I ended up using, team physician for the St Louis Cardinals, also studied at SUNY and then did his fellowship in Alabama--one of the best in the nation. He has studied all ACL recon methods, and again, he would go to the bone-patellar-bone as his last recommendation, despite having been exposed to Dr Shelbourne's techniques.

These guys (Sanders, Johnson, and Shelbourne) were great in their day; hell, Shelbourne was a pioneer. And, they are all still good physicians from what I have read. I guess I am just saying that I am trusting my physician over him, as my doc is younger, better educated, and has better professional credentials.

If you are really wanting to understand the issue completely, have a long talk with a ortho doc you trust. I did.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/6/2011 5:41pm
8/6/2011 5:41pm
moto543 wrote:
I had a similar situation. Cased a double and tore my ACL in half, tore my medial meniscus and had a contusion on my tibial platue...
I had a similar situation. Cased a double and tore my ACL in half, tore my medial meniscus and had a contusion on my tibial platue. I too, was wearing only knee pads. That was in April. I was cleared by my doctor at the end of November. I missed the entire season!

So now I have two knees with after market ACL's and on missing half of a meniscus. I think I would rather break a femur than go through another knee surgery! Whether you wear an Asterisk, pod, CTi, etc. risking a broken leg is be better than a knee surgery. My doctor and physical therapists agreed with that.

I ended up getting a set of CTi2's which are amazing! Contact them and they can help with your insurance. www.ossur.com/cti
Dude, thank you very much! I have been trying to figure this out. I was planning on asking my doc for a script for the injured knee, but was bumming about the right. I will contact them.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/6/2011 5:46pm
8/6/2011 5:46pm
Huckster wrote:
thumpertalk.com search Dr. Sanders or go the the Health and Fitness section
Also, Huck, I am not bashing on your link to Sanders. I think we all need to read as much information on these topics as it takes for us to be comfortable. I am just saying we should always be able to corroborate information provided to us, and if it still smells funny, check it a second time with someone else.

I dig your advice on the CTi and I think I am going to really push to get these per your and everyone else's advice.

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DrSweden
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DrSweden 8/6/2011 6:08pm
8/6/2011 6:08pm
Nambud76 wrote:
I have read all of Dr Sanders stuff. I have also visited his clinic's webpage. No offense, but I will get my ortho advice elsewhere. I...
I have read all of Dr Sanders stuff. I have also visited his clinic's webpage. No offense, but I will get my ortho advice elsewhere.

I have talked to 6 separate physicians--3 specifically knee specialists. One of them was Dr Glen Johnson. Dr Johnson is a huge proponent of Dr. Sanders mentor, Dr Shelbourne at SUNY. For some reason, these guys are still pushing bone-patellar-bone grafts hardcore for ACL reconstruction and just absolutely bashing other methods. The younger physicians I spoke to have all been saying hamstring graft first, then cadaver material, and then bone-pateller-bone graft. The b-p-b graft results in multiple large scars (one big one in front) and a lot of pain in the front of the knee after surgery--not to mention bone removal (weakening potentially) from your knee cap. I personally used a partial hamstring graft with partial cadaver material and two weeks out you can only see one of the 5 incisions (~2 inches long), the 4 others were less then 1CM each. I have very minimal soreness at this point as well, and rehab looks very promising.

The physician I ended up using, team physician for the St Louis Cardinals, also studied at SUNY and then did his fellowship in Alabama--one of the best in the nation. He has studied all ACL recon methods, and again, he would go to the bone-patellar-bone as his last recommendation, despite having been exposed to Dr Shelbourne's techniques.

These guys (Sanders, Johnson, and Shelbourne) were great in their day; hell, Shelbourne was a pioneer. And, they are all still good physicians from what I have read. I guess I am just saying that I am trusting my physician over him, as my doc is younger, better educated, and has better professional credentials.

If you are really wanting to understand the issue completely, have a long talk with a ortho doc you trust. I did.
I like how you think and argue and it seems you made the right decision. Word from the mouth means nothing for me if the Doc talking cant provide recent studies supporting his talk.
Huckster
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Huckster 8/6/2011 6:57pm
8/6/2011 6:57pm
Huckster wrote:
I had asterisk and sold them. they were ok until I blew out my acl and got a CTI through insurance. NO comparison. I bought a...
I had asterisk and sold them. they were ok until I blew out my acl and got a CTI through insurance. NO comparison. I bought a EVS Web for my healthy knee and did not like it. I still have it if anyone is interested. Its a large Web for the left knee. $120 and its yours. I am going to try the Pod.

You guys should check out Dr, Mark Sanders over at Thumper talk and what he has to say about Brace vs no brace. He did a study on braces and the effect on prevention of injury and came up with some interesting findings.
Nambud76 wrote:
I have read all of Dr Sanders stuff. I have also visited his clinic's webpage. No offense, but I will get my ortho advice elsewhere. I...
I have read all of Dr Sanders stuff. I have also visited his clinic's webpage. No offense, but I will get my ortho advice elsewhere.

I have talked to 6 separate physicians--3 specifically knee specialists. One of them was Dr Glen Johnson. Dr Johnson is a huge proponent of Dr. Sanders mentor, Dr Shelbourne at SUNY. For some reason, these guys are still pushing bone-patellar-bone grafts hardcore for ACL reconstruction and just absolutely bashing other methods. The younger physicians I spoke to have all been saying hamstring graft first, then cadaver material, and then bone-pateller-bone graft. The b-p-b graft results in multiple large scars (one big one in front) and a lot of pain in the front of the knee after surgery--not to mention bone removal (weakening potentially) from your knee cap. I personally used a partial hamstring graft with partial cadaver material and two weeks out you can only see one of the 5 incisions (~2 inches long), the 4 others were less then 1CM each. I have very minimal soreness at this point as well, and rehab looks very promising.

The physician I ended up using, team physician for the St Louis Cardinals, also studied at SUNY and then did his fellowship in Alabama--one of the best in the nation. He has studied all ACL recon methods, and again, he would go to the bone-patellar-bone as his last recommendation, despite having been exposed to Dr Shelbourne's techniques.

These guys (Sanders, Johnson, and Shelbourne) were great in their day; hell, Shelbourne was a pioneer. And, they are all still good physicians from what I have read. I guess I am just saying that I am trusting my physician over him, as my doc is younger, better educated, and has better professional credentials.

If you are really wanting to understand the issue completely, have a long talk with a ortho doc you trust. I did.
I read and spoke to Dr. Mark on multiple occasions before I had my surgery. I was very confident in what he had to say and from speaking with multiple former patients. I did not go to Texas because of logistics reasons and had mine done locally. My surgeon, who is head of his group, did the BPB graft but from the injured leg. I have a small 3 in scar on the front of my knee from the surgery and am not sure what you mean when you say "multiple scars." During my research, the only common response I got from multiple doctors and this was echoed by my surgeon as well as Dr. Sanders, was that the most important factor in ACL surgery was not the method but rather the guy holding the knife. I am sure we can find research and opinions to back up what ever method we choose to covet, but I am almost 1 full year post op and my knee feels great, strong and I am back to resuming my normal active lifestyle without any major discomforts. Having confidence in your surgeon is very important and I hope yours turns out great. My Dr. is a Columbia graduate and was the surgeon for the Yankees and football Giants. I am sure your guy is good as well, but to make the statement "...better educated, and has better professional credentials...." is a bit of a stretch. Not to mention the discussion and thread was about Knee braces not surgery...
CamP
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CamP 8/6/2011 7:11pm
8/6/2011 7:11pm
The patella graft is still the gold standard.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/7/2011 4:13pm
8/7/2011 4:13pm
First, I know it was about braces, and I was simply illustrating that I have read from some dude on line versus what my doc told me about wearing braces and benefits. Sorry for the digression to the surgery to prove my point.

"I am sure your guy is good as well, but to make the statement "...better educated, and has better professional credentials...." is a bit of a stretch."

Nah, not really. But, you are correct in that you don't want to ask a physician to do a method he doesn't know. Dr Sweden said it best of all, look up their published papers or papers of people they have studied with and understand them. Dr. Sweden was dead on in that regard. I actually have a bunch of hard copies of Shelbourne's and Johnson's papers from the early 90s.

Dr Lyndon Gross is a MD/PHD and completed a fellowship.
Worked on following sports teams: St Louis Cardinals (current), St Louis Bilikens (Current), Washington Redskins (Previous); couple local high schools (current)
Teaches: St Louis University Orthopedic James R. Andrews, M.D. and William G. Clancy, Jr., M.D.
College: Cornell University, Ithaca, New York
Graduate School: State University of New York, Brooklyn, New York
Medical School: State University of New York, Brooklyn, New York
Internship: University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Orthopedic Residency: University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Sports Medicine Fellowship: American Sports Medicine Institute, Birmingham, Alabama

Dr Sanders is an MD.
College: SUNY at Buffalo (Buffalo, New York)
Medical School: Downstate Medical Center (Brooklyn, New York)
Internship: Nassau County Medical Center
Orthopedic Residency: SUNY at Stony Brook Hospital


Just saying...
Huckster
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Huckster 8/7/2011 6:22pm
8/7/2011 6:22pm
Your guy does have some nice credentials. You should feel good about having him do your knee. I do not need to defend Dr. Mark but would be interested in seeing who has done more ACL's and what their revision rate is. I am a big believer in going to those who do rather than those who teach or study methodology....but that's just me. I will tell you that not one single Dr. that I spoke to, who understood the rigors of Motocross, recommended a cadaver replacement. To a Dr. they said those are for inactive people or the elderly and have the highest rate of failure so take that for what's it worth. My Dr. included.

I also suggested Dr. Sanders knee brace study because before the study he was a big proponent for not wearing them citing and I paraphrase, "I never had a patient die on my table from a ACL but have from femoral artery...." After conducting the study he changed his tune in regard to wearing knee braces.....Just thought that was interesting.
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DrSweden 8/7/2011 8:10pm
8/7/2011 8:10pm
Huckster and Nambud, sorry for interfering, but I think you are both right in a way. Recently I did some "research" for this spec surgery for a friend, and the few hours I put down into it showed that there's unfortunately no adequate data favoring any spec type of operation, meaning that no one stands out as superior to the other since there are to many factors. There are some data suggesting that some might have better outcome than the other because of strength of the graft, as in relation to what the patient is intended to do with his knee and there's of course a truth buried here for each individual, but the real truth is most likely to discover in the future.

My conclusion of the search was that I felt cadaver was the best option because of faster healing, and less trauma as you don't have to damage the rest of your body to take spare parts (dunno about the synthetic graft) like patella or hamstring and the often negative consequence of that (people with patella graft meaning you take part of your other patella often report years of pain in that knee). More confusing is that a recent study from Sweden suggest that conservative treatment meaning no op, just rehab is the best way. Back to topic. To use the cadaver method you should find an expert in THAT field, meaning a guy that does these all the time and have good records because that was the conclusion of some articles I found. The Doc doing the op is the major factor...

I also to a big bite in the knee brace topic, and tried to find any studies for riders (didn't found Sanders) but could only ones made with football players. Football is totally different with different players and task and the more one though about any comparison because wearing braces could in the football case maybe decrease the muscles strength in you knee and in that way be contra productive. The point was if you always train with a brace, the knee will be lazy. But for us is different, we work out as much with the knee doing bicycling, jogging or regular work. Our knees are really not being challenged that much while riding so any risk of muscle atrophy is miniscule I suggest.

So my conclusion of the small research I did, made my Asterisk Cell shine a bit more than usual. Unfortunately we don't know the truth and I doubt there will be any major studies, but it could be interesting to see how many ACL injuries we see these days that are reported as a consequence of riding compared to 10 years ago when we didn't see them (and also measure how many riders as in bike sales). Same study could be done with the Leatt Brace in mind.

I hope this didn't create any further confusion... Sad
CamP
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CamP 8/8/2011 9:29am
8/8/2011 9:29am
I can tell you that foregoing reconstructive surgery is a bad idea if you continue to ride with a torn ACL. I did that for 15 years and the result was a permanently damaged femoral condyle which will leave me with a total knee replacement at some point in my future.

Also, every surgeon I spoke with told me that the patella graft was the absolute strongest graft type. Other graft types are less invasive but the final results are typically a weaker graft.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/8/2011 6:23pm
8/8/2011 6:23pm
Hey CamP
Do you have cartilage or meniscus problems too? With my torn meniscus and bone contusions, I fear I will be on a path to a total knee replacement in 15 - 20 years. I hope not. Sad

Agreed Huckster! I did not want cadaver, but I am half cadaver and half hammy... Oh well, it is in there now. Smile

Doc Swede, information is never a bad thing. Thanks for looking into it.
cjmx
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cjmx 8/8/2011 7:36pm
8/8/2011 7:36pm
CamP wrote:
The patella graft is still the gold standard.
several of the nations best doctors are now using the cadaver graft as their "gold standard". Dr. Steadman in Vail who operates on the top athletes in the world is primarily using the cadaver graft.

Also something you may want to read:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/AOSSM/hamstring_grafts/prweb8140212.htm
Roscoe33
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Roscoe33 8/8/2011 8:04pm
8/8/2011 8:04pm
1st pick;
Your CTI sales rep is a good source to find out how to get them covered.

2nd pick;
if you have to pay get EVS.

don't expect a knee brace to save you in a crash, braces are to support a weak knee from previous injurys.
CamP
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CamP 8/8/2011 8:19pm
8/8/2011 8:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2011 9:05pm
CamP wrote:
The patella graft is still the gold standard.
cjmx wrote:
several of the nations best doctors are now using the cadaver graft as their "gold standard". Dr. Steadman in Vail who operates on the top athletes...
several of the nations best doctors are now using the cadaver graft as their "gold standard". Dr. Steadman in Vail who operates on the top athletes in the world is primarily using the cadaver graft.

Also something you may want to read:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/AOSSM/hamstring_grafts/prweb8140212.htm
The cadaver graft is less invasive, but it takes longer to achieve the same strength as the patella autograft. This is because cadaver parts have to be freeze dried, which destroys the tissue and weakens it until your body replaces all the dead cells in the cadaver graft.

Personally, after seeing how scummy the human body parts business is, I don't want anything to do with cadaver grafts and I'll use my own parts as long as I have them.
muGz.147 8/8/2011 8:43pm
8/8/2011 8:43pm
I've worn Asterisk since the day they launched them at the Indy Trade Show in....01' was it? Not sure on the date, but I remember hearing about them before the dealer show, and that being one of the first booths I visited with. I met Davey and set my shop up as a dealer, ordering myself a set in the process. I wore those out and sent them back once for refurbishing (got them back like new), and then bought another set when they updated the back cuff design. I've worn them since, and they are just about shot. I got a chance to wear the PODS for a weekend when I was out in Cali visiting a friend. By the way, he let me ride his new 10' YZ250F in Hollister Hills, while he borrowed another buddy's CRF450X (w/headlight) for the weekend...THAT is a true friend people! Anyway, back to the braces...I dug the PODS, I'd like to try a set as my next set, but if I don't...it'll be the Cells again...in green. Asterisk has been real nice to deal with as a customer AND a dealer. They've taken care of the few issues I've had at minimal cost, and with the quickness.

FLmxr: Nice Hatebreed reference!

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cjmx
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cjmx 8/9/2011 9:50am
8/9/2011 9:50am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2011 9:54am
CamP wrote:
The cadaver graft is less invasive, but it takes longer to achieve the same strength as the patella autograft. This is because cadaver parts have to...
The cadaver graft is less invasive, but it takes longer to achieve the same strength as the patella autograft. This is because cadaver parts have to be freeze dried, which destroys the tissue and weakens it until your body replaces all the dead cells in the cadaver graft.

Personally, after seeing how scummy the human body parts business is, I don't want anything to do with cadaver grafts and I'll use my own parts as long as I have them.
Yes, it does take a little longer in the beginning but in the end research has shown a lot less issues down the road with hamstring and cadaver grafts. My GF who has her doctorate in Physical Therapy says she sees less then 20% of new patients with patella grafts now.
Nambud76
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Nambud76 8/10/2011 5:30am
8/10/2011 5:30am
cjmx wrote:
Yes, it does take a little longer in the beginning but in the end research has shown a lot less issues down the road with hamstring...
Yes, it does take a little longer in the beginning but in the end research has shown a lot less issues down the road with hamstring and cadaver grafts. My GF who has her doctorate in Physical Therapy says she sees less then 20% of new patients with patella grafts now.
Very good point. I have been in Physical Therapy at a large clinic since early May, and I have seen absolutely NO Bone-Patellar-Bone grafts come through the clinic. I have seen and talked to a ton of hammy/cadaver patients (ton is an exaggeration, but seriously 6 or 7 people in the past few months since I have been there...).
Shae_Jackman 8/29/2011 4:39am
8/29/2011 4:39am
just wondering if anybody has any experience with the TLD catalyst knee braces? iv had a recently had a full ACL recon with patella graft and 50% meniscus removed, water sport related. Now in undergoing rehab and super keen to get back on my bike! before op i was running the cheap thor braces which are cool, but i dont think are going to be much chop if i start cartwheeling off the bike. i was looking into the asterisks, but then found out a mate had just done his ACL wearing a pair! so many on the market and so many mixed reviews! any help would be greatly appreciated...
Getzlapedalot 3/21/2013 4:04pm
3/21/2013 4:04pm
sxf138 wrote:
Astrisk here too. Basically i found that they are the most adjustable and durable. Back in march i broke my femur, and basically the knee brace...
Astrisk here too. Basically i found that they are the most adjustable and durable. Back in march i broke my femur, and basically the knee brace snapped my femur, but long story short they did what they were supposed to and saved me from blowing my knee to pieces.
I would rather break a bone, than blow out my ACL!
velocitygear
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velocitygear 3/21/2013 8:22pm
3/21/2013 8:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2013 8:24pm
sxf138 wrote:
Astrisk here too. Basically i found that they are the most adjustable and durable. Back in march i broke my femur, and basically the knee brace...
Astrisk here too. Basically i found that they are the most adjustable and durable. Back in march i broke my femur, and basically the knee brace snapped my femur, but long story short they did what they were supposed to and saved me from blowing my knee to pieces.
Getzlapedalot wrote:
I would rather break a bone, than blow out my ACL!
One problem- a broken femur can lead to death!!

I had cadeavor acl and pcl replacement last March 15th. Can't wait to ride.... Looking to buy an off the shelf brace and for the money, I don't think you can beat Donjoy's Armor forcepoint. They seem to have a much higher percentage of professional athletes using their braces. AS IN- Professional Athletes in general not just motocross riders...



https://www.djoglobal.com/products/donjoy/armor






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