No USGP 2012

jamma10
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7/7/2011 3:22pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 3:33pm
I have an American Birth certificate now, my father is American, I gave up my duel citizenship Wink

S
kongols wrote:
But can you become President of United States of America?
Yes I could, I'm sure I couldn't be any worse then the last few presidents we've had haha ;) Listen I love the GP's, I love...
Yes I could, I'm sure I couldn't be any worse then the last few presidents we've had haha Wink Listen I love the GP's, I love SX and I love outdoor mx, whether local or Nationals, and I would say that 99.9% of the people here can say the same, we're hard core moto fans, that's why we hang here and discuss it, I have no interest in arguing with people over who or what is better, cause in all reality I don't give a F$%#, I just love moto and want it to thrive....

S
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....'

So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

(and btw 'National' means contained within one country, 'International' means a number of countries, or at least the participation of various nationalities - we have x3 British National Championships inwhich various riders from other countries compete and we have a pre season International race at Hawkstone in April every year which many foreign riders use as a practice before the season starts. The American Outdoor series could become the 'Lucas Oil International Motocross Series' but a World Championship, in the truest sense of the word should travel to different countries.... no matter what your baseball series is called)
Sondy132001
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7/7/2011 3:28pm
jamma10 wrote:
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....' So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for...
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....'

So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

(and btw 'National' means contained within one country, 'International' means a number of countries, or at least the participation of various nationalities - we have x3 British National Championships inwhich various riders from other countries compete and we have a pre season International race at Hawkstone in April every year which many foreign riders use as a practice before the season starts. The American Outdoor series could become the 'Lucas Oil International Motocross Series' but a World Championship, in the truest sense of the word should travel to different countries.... no matter what your baseball series is called)
Jamma I supported it, I know a bunch of people who supported it, it was A ) expensive B ) bad weekend and C ) it can't survive on hard core fans alone, you need people, new people, fly by night people to come to the event. It needed more names, because we've already discussed this, majority of people don't know who Paulin is or DeSalle etc, we don't see the GP's here on TV. I saw the MXdN last year cause I saw it on Redbull's website, I also paid for it and couldn't get it to work from YS. YS didn't properly promote the USGP, now Gavin Trippe back in the day, he did it right !!

S
jamma10
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7/7/2011 3:32pm
I know both you and 500Guy went, and a few others, and to me it says a lot about your passion for the sport which I really admire.
GuyB
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7/7/2011 3:35pm
jamma10 wrote:
I know both you and 500Guy went, and a few others, and to me it says a lot about your passion for the sport which I...
I know both you and 500Guy went, and a few others, and to me it says a lot about your passion for the sport which I really admire.
I'd say there are a lot fewer hardcore fans than everyone here would like to think. And that includes the ones here that think they're hardcore fans.

The Shop

kongols
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7/7/2011 3:39pm
GuyB wrote:
I'd say there are a lot fewer hardcore fans than everyone here would like to think. And that includes the ones here that think they're hardcore...
I'd say there are a lot fewer hardcore fans than everyone here would like to think. And that includes the ones here that think they're hardcore fans.
I think there is, it`s just that they don`t live that close to Glen Helen.
500guy
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7/7/2011 3:48pm
guy-b is right, there were hundreds of so called hard core MX people not there.

That area and nearby like riverside there is enough people to jam that into a nightmare of excess people, nobody I talked to ever heard or saw 1 radio or tv advertisement locally.
7/7/2011 3:50pm
mccread wrote:
European nationals?! Seriously.. that is wrong on so many levels. Since when was Europe a country? The term national championship mean a championship within one nation...
European nationals?!
Seriously.. that is wrong on so many levels.

Since when was Europe a country?

The term national championship mean a championship within one nation. ie British Nationals, Belgian Nationals, US Nationals.

It really is amazing that American pride won't let them call the World Championship the World Championship lol
And the Euro's had Nationals and Internationals back in the 60's, Nationals another word for GP's and Internationals being the series in their own respective country...
And the Euro's had Nationals and Internationals back in the 60's, Nationals another word for GP's and Internationals being the series in their own respective country. So there Tongue

S
This was not a Grand Prix race

Motocross of Aces was an annual international motocross race in North Brabant village of Sint Anthonis
The first race was run on 7 September 1947 (then called International Motocross Sint Anthonis).
The last race on the former track "De Hoef" took place in 1984 with over 30,000 visitors.
The organization of the event - one of the largest motocross events in Europe - was held by the St Tunnisse Motor Club ("SMC").

Among the participants at the Motocross of Aces were stars like Roger de Coster and Joel Robert .

google translator

mjskier
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7/7/2011 3:51pm
we don't see the GP's here on TV

As I said earlier, we actually do get them on Altitude (one week delay and terrible picture. In fact the pic is so bad that it makes it hard to see who is who. I assume it is due to a format translation between Europe and the US)

http://www.altitude.tv/WhatsOn/ProgramSearch.aspx?texttosearch=fim%20motocross
Sondy132001
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7/7/2011 4:00pm
mjskier wrote:
[b]we don't see the GP's here on TV[/b] As I said earlier, we actually do get them on Altitude (one week delay and terrible picture. In...
we don't see the GP's here on TV

As I said earlier, we actually do get them on Altitude (one week delay and terrible picture. In fact the pic is so bad that it makes it hard to see who is who. I assume it is due to a format translation between Europe and the US)

http://www.altitude.tv/WhatsOn/ProgramSearch.aspx?texttosearch=fim%20motocross
Well MJ I don't get that channel on my TV, so hence I don't see GP's on TV !

S
Sondy132001
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7/7/2011 4:01pm
mccread wrote:
European nationals?! Seriously.. that is wrong on so many levels. Since when was Europe a country? The term national championship mean a championship within one nation...
European nationals?!
Seriously.. that is wrong on so many levels.

Since when was Europe a country?

The term national championship mean a championship within one nation. ie British Nationals, Belgian Nationals, US Nationals.

It really is amazing that American pride won't let them call the World Championship the World Championship lol
And the Euro's had Nationals and Internationals back in the 60's, Nationals another word for GP's and Internationals being the series in their own respective country...
And the Euro's had Nationals and Internationals back in the 60's, Nationals another word for GP's and Internationals being the series in their own respective country. So there Tongue

S
steedmills wrote:
This was not a Grand Prix race Motocross of Aces was an annual international motocross race in North Brabant village of Sint Anthonis The first race...
This was not a Grand Prix race

Motocross of Aces was an annual international motocross race in North Brabant village of Sint Anthonis
The first race was run on 7 September 1947 (then called International Motocross Sint Anthonis).
The last race on the former track "De Hoef" took place in 1984 with over 30,000 visitors.
The organization of the event - one of the largest motocross events in Europe - was held by the St Tunnisse Motor Club ("SMC").

Among the participants at the Motocross of Aces were stars like Roger de Coster and Joel Robert .

google translator

hahahah Look at the :19 mark...it's DV in a past life and thanks for posting that, very cool !!

S
jamma10
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7/7/2011 4:03pm
Grinning it does look like DV!
FreshTopEnd
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7/7/2011 4:03pm
Altitude is a Denver regional network that is unavailable on the majority of the US unless it's included with a dish or direct package.
7/7/2011 4:05pm
If i didnt live 2038.3 miles(i mapquested it haha), i would have definitely went to this race
`ol Ger
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7/7/2011 4:06pm
Jay can be pretty cynical, but that post is pretty spot on with respect to both the contingent nature of the calendar over the last couple...
Jay can be pretty cynical, but that post is pretty spot on with respect to both the contingent nature of the calendar over the last couple years and the characterization of how the USGP came to pass. It may be that the way the race played out has as much as anything to do with any rapprochement between MXSports and YS.

If it's gone, that's a shame; I wonder who pulled the plug.
Extra points awarded for the word 'rapprochement'.
broman64
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7/7/2011 4:09pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 7:09pm
mccread wrote:
You don't get it. It IS the World Championship, it goes to different countries and continents and is run by the FIM the world governing body...
You don't get it. It IS the World Championship, it goes to different countries and continents and is run by the FIM the world governing body of all motorcycling... the same people that run MotoGP, WSB, Speedway GP. They are all world championships too.

The US series is a National championship because it is held in one country... but because it is such a big country it is similar in quality to th World Championship... that is why there are two top tier championships... but they are very different series, with different qualities needed to win them.

That is not being disrespectful to the US series... it is a compliment. But racing the World Championship is very different to racing the US Championship especially for an American rider who is used to racing in his home country, hence why it is difficult to presume the top rider in either series would dominate the other one, they are just different.
It doesnt matter if it is in different countries, it doen't matter why anything... the point is that this subject is useless... you can call anything, anything in this country... You and your compadries are taking the wrong stance... have you ever heard "agree with your advisary"?... man, I'm telling you, It doesn't matter, this arguement is much older than you or me... We,(America) don't need the gp's, here or there.... that is a fact and YouthStream is okay with that, so is MXSports, so drop it... Honda, Suzuki , Yamaha, and Kawasaki ALL tell you what they think about it... Let it go...
I read here, at Vital, a bunch of people that think they have it figured out... What, exactly, do you have figured out?... Nothing... The older I get and the more I am impacted by the insane and sane, the more I understand that the more I know the less I, really, know... This I am assured, as well I see the fallacy alive in others that believe themselves to be an authority... I'm no MX authority, I don't see myself as an MX authority, and what others think about me doesn't make me or break me... Who I am is who I am... The results of my mouth/life/work speaks for itself and for or against my life... Not what you or any other on here thinks and therefore, spews... I, for one, love Racing a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g... I have followed it all at one time or another... However, I have an affinity for MotoCross anywhere... I raced myself, during the beginning of US Motos' rise to the top, raised 2 boys that competed at the highest Amatuer level, funded , trained & travel with 5 US experts wanting to be top pros...
I've built bikes, engines, suspensions, done my own, been payed to do others', been involved in testing MX, AX and SX... I knew Freddie Spencer years before his GP reign,(his '85 dbl) I'm from Natchitotches.. I Road Raced, flat tracked and Mo-toad... Ect, ect, ect, ... I say this stuff to lead up to say I just have some experiences that the other guy might not and he/she will have experiences that I don't have... My experiences don't give me the right to call someone out, but it sure is a light at times... I've been to big races, also, I've had a few dogs that hunted that day, and I've had some that sucked hind tit that day, as well... In other words, I've cheered for the winner and I've cheered for the loser enough to know that I simply love racing... I have opinions that are based on my experiences and I sometimes don't understand why anyone would challenge me... as do most people... especially some on here... It is what it is... The US doesn't have a GP for 2012, they must not care, or it would be here... There is a reason, and it won't make sence to someone, and it will to someone else... We have to live with it...
Besides, I have learned about life/racing on this side of the Pond, therefore, you euros will never make sence about this, to me...
BMan-
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7/7/2011 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 4:23pm
mccread wrote:
Glad to see Leirop back, best track in world. Disappointing that the US GP is off... but honestly the lack of support from the fans and...
Glad to see Leirop back, best track in world.

Disappointing that the US GP is off... but honestly the lack of support from the fans and US Media was the problem, and that comes down to a lack of respect and knowledge of World Championship racing in the USA because their own series are so good. Every other country gets good crowds, even Brazil.

Maybe 2013 will see the return though if DC and Loungo run a joint race... that would be epic!!

I counted that as 16 rounds next year ? That will be a long championship
I have to agree with you on one point. I was there and turnout was very low. Mostly because no American top riders IMHO. It does...
I have to agree with you on one point. I was there and turnout was very low. Mostly because no American top riders IMHO. It does not matter how much the US media does, unless US riders show, the show is a no go. Most people who watch American mx have knowledge of the MXGP so it's not like they don't know.

I don't think it is lack of respect, but if it is, respect is earned, not given, and the FIM has done little or nothing to earn Americans respect. I think we have respect for the speed of the riders and the races.Americans want to see American riders. When I went, I had no one to pull for, except for Zack, but he is not even considered a very fast American racer, he is like the token slow American racer. I don't disrespect him, for him to go over there is a major effort and career killer. Why, because few Americans know he is there or they do know and don't care, he is not in the lime light of AMA racing.. When I was at the USGP I really didn't know the riders or even care how they placed. I watch the race and it was very ho hum. I have watched some FIM races on tv, but it is hard to get into it because no disrespect, it is not as exciting as AMA, and dare I say, the Americans look faster (we could debate this but I am not going to, it is just my perception.)

Even in America, Americans want to see the top racers in America. The midpack and below riders few fams really follow or even care about. So if our slower riders are battling this, FIM has a much harder battle because not only are they considered slower(even though this may only a perception and not reality), they are out of sight out of mind.

About your combined race. It might be cool to have an AMA race where Euros come here for the first 3 races and do a combined thing. But American riders will not go to Europe so it has to be here, heck you cant even get American riders to show up at a USGP in the middle of California. The Fim will have to adopt AMA rules for everything. In other words, the Euros and the FIM will have to bend over backwards to play with no help from the AMA, and if it doesn't happen don't expect it to ever happen. That is my opinion, and I could be wrong, the USGP was as good as it gets for a chance to race against each other individually and not in teams in the MXON. And it didn't happen.
Lierop's back,awesome Grinning Grinning but It's a shame about the USGP as it had great potential,I attended the last AMA National at GH and the first USGP and for atmosphere and noise,the AMA was on another level but as a purist the GP had the better racing which to me was a clear indication from the word go that it needed Americans to race,fans were,whooping and cheering at the National while the race was mediocre but timing and money seem to stop them having anyone to support at the USGP,and while Osbourne is there,when he left the US he wasn't at the standard he is now (even if he did impress while representing Peurto Rico at the Nations) it needs established guys

At the end of the day though I suppose if it's not making enough money,I'm not surprised if YS drop it and move on


"Most people who watch American mx have knowledge of the MXGP so it's not like they don't know."

"When I was at the USGP I really didn't know the riders or even care how they placed"

Unsure Unsure ??
mjskier
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7/7/2011 4:20pm
Altitude is a Denver regional network that is unavailable on the majority of the US unless it's included with a dish or direct package.
Doesn't everybody have dish?
No seriously, if it weren't for Speed, Fuel, and Altitude I would ditch my dish system in a second. 200+ channels with nothing on.
VOODOO27
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7/7/2011 4:23pm
jamma10 wrote:
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....' So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for...
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....'

So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

(and btw 'National' means contained within one country, 'International' means a number of countries, or at least the participation of various nationalities - we have x3 British National Championships inwhich various riders from other countries compete and we have a pre season International race at Hawkstone in April every year which many foreign riders use as a practice before the season starts. The American Outdoor series could become the 'Lucas Oil International Motocross Series' but a World Championship, in the truest sense of the word should travel to different countries.... no matter what your baseball series is called)
.So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

I see it as the USGP being sandwiched between the Supercross finals (of the most exciting series in a few years) and the start of the Motocross National, being a big issue why it didn't attract the fans. I'm sure quite a few fans that made the Las Vegas Supercross trip, also had plans to attend the Hangtown Motocross Classic. If people make their vacation plans ahead of time, making the USGP date a moving target, in the beginning, didn't help their cause. Last year's USGP was put together so quickly, only the diehard fan would have considered adding that to their vacation plans. Southern Californian can't even support a professional football team, the mother of all sport her in the US, so it's not just the USGP that feels the affect of SoCal mentality and lifestyle. There's just too much to do in Southern California. And, I don't know too many people that can afford to make it to 3 professional races in 3 weeks in a row.

I'm not going to be made to feel bad for not attending this year's USGP, just because I decided to take my family to the Las Vegas Supercross, the previous week. And, I'm not going to feel too bad about missing the Motocross Finals at Pala, because I'm going to spend the week leading up to the MXdN in London and Paris Smile I had all my reservations set up to attend Pala... and then Youthstream bumped the MXdN up a week... so now, I guess I can get grief or abandoning the US Nationals for some meaningless novelty race in France Wink

There's only so much that people can do with their disposable income... and I'd much rather see a MXGP in Europe than the US any way.
Sherwood
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7/7/2011 4:45pm
I like how it's the fans fault this thing failed when the promoter did nothing to attract top AMA talent.
PressPassP
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7/7/2011 4:55pm
VOODOO27 wrote:
.[i]So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.[/i] I see it as the USGP being...
.So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

I see it as the USGP being sandwiched between the Supercross finals (of the most exciting series in a few years) and the start of the Motocross National, being a big issue why it didn't attract the fans. I'm sure quite a few fans that made the Las Vegas Supercross trip, also had plans to attend the Hangtown Motocross Classic. If people make their vacation plans ahead of time, making the USGP date a moving target, in the beginning, didn't help their cause. Last year's USGP was put together so quickly, only the diehard fan would have considered adding that to their vacation plans. Southern Californian can't even support a professional football team, the mother of all sport her in the US, so it's not just the USGP that feels the affect of SoCal mentality and lifestyle. There's just too much to do in Southern California. And, I don't know too many people that can afford to make it to 3 professional races in 3 weeks in a row.

I'm not going to be made to feel bad for not attending this year's USGP, just because I decided to take my family to the Las Vegas Supercross, the previous week. And, I'm not going to feel too bad about missing the Motocross Finals at Pala, because I'm going to spend the week leading up to the MXdN in London and Paris Smile I had all my reservations set up to attend Pala... and then Youthstream bumped the MXdN up a week... so now, I guess I can get grief or abandoning the US Nationals for some meaningless novelty race in France Wink

There's only so much that people can do with their disposable income... and I'd much rather see a MXGP in Europe than the US any way.
Fair comment I guess Smile
TDeath21
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7/7/2011 4:58pm
I would probably never come back if I were them. The attendance was horrible and the US fans want to see the top US riders. The US riders have no reason to ride that race, and it would also take away one of their very few off weeks in the season. Really I think they should just stay in Europe for their series so they wouldn't have to transport their bikes overseas.
jamma10
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7/7/2011 5:05pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 5:11pm
jamma10 wrote:
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....' So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for...
'I just love moto and want it to thrive....'

So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

(and btw 'National' means contained within one country, 'International' means a number of countries, or at least the participation of various nationalities - we have x3 British National Championships inwhich various riders from other countries compete and we have a pre season International race at Hawkstone in April every year which many foreign riders use as a practice before the season starts. The American Outdoor series could become the 'Lucas Oil International Motocross Series' but a World Championship, in the truest sense of the word should travel to different countries.... no matter what your baseball series is called)
VOODOO27 wrote:
.[i]So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.[/i] I see it as the USGP being...
.So do we, which is why its so sad to see such a lack of support for a USGP.

I see it as the USGP being sandwiched between the Supercross finals (of the most exciting series in a few years) and the start of the Motocross National, being a big issue why it didn't attract the fans. I'm sure quite a few fans that made the Las Vegas Supercross trip, also had plans to attend the Hangtown Motocross Classic. If people make their vacation plans ahead of time, making the USGP date a moving target, in the beginning, didn't help their cause. Last year's USGP was put together so quickly, only the diehard fan would have considered adding that to their vacation plans. Southern Californian can't even support a professional football team, the mother of all sport her in the US, so it's not just the USGP that feels the affect of SoCal mentality and lifestyle. There's just too much to do in Southern California. And, I don't know too many people that can afford to make it to 3 professional races in 3 weeks in a row.

I'm not going to be made to feel bad for not attending this year's USGP, just because I decided to take my family to the Las Vegas Supercross, the previous week. And, I'm not going to feel too bad about missing the Motocross Finals at Pala, because I'm going to spend the week leading up to the MXdN in London and Paris Smile I had all my reservations set up to attend Pala... and then Youthstream bumped the MXdN up a week... so now, I guess I can get grief or abandoning the US Nationals for some meaningless novelty race in France Wink

There's only so much that people can do with their disposable income... and I'd much rather see a MXGP in Europe than the US any way.
You sound like a very reasonable guy.







Are you sure you're in the right forum? Smile

Seriously though, I, along with I expect most GP fans appreciate the genuine reasons why many fans couldn't make it to Glen Helen and in no way do we feel resentment towards them. Its the obnoxious, couldn't care less attitude of others thats frustrating. Its the overwhelming sense that many American "fans" could have gone but simply refused to give it the time of day - and then laughed at the poor turnout aftwards. Its just so far removed from the general attitude of Europeans who would probably walk over hot coals to watch a National held on European soil that its sometimes difficult to comprehend. Youthstream are not blameless, they could have promoted it properly, you would think that would have been high on their list of priorities, but ultimately they brought the GP to Glen Helen for Americans to enjoy (make a bit of money for themselves no doubt) and help to break down these stupid boundaries that have developed. A USGP is/was a good thing for Motocross.
VOODOO27
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7/7/2011 5:08pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I would probably never come back if I were them. The attendance was horrible and the US fans want to see the top US riders. The...
I would probably never come back if I were them. The attendance was horrible and the US fans want to see the top US riders. The US riders have no reason to ride that race, and it would also take away one of their very few off weeks in the season. Really I think they should just stay in Europe for their series so they wouldn't have to transport their bikes overseas.
A stop in the US fit perfect on the MXGP's way to Brasil, didn't it? If they're making the trip to the America's might as well get them all in together on the same voyage. Mexico looks like it's replacing Glen Helen, if it actually happens. Talk about a fan base, with little disposable income...

On that train of thought, with just staying in Europe; Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Africa, are out of the question for you also? Those countries are 'overseas'... is that why Youthstream doesn't go back there?
FreshTopEnd
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7/7/2011 5:10pm
Its the overwhelming sense that many American "fans" who could have gone but simply refuse to give it the time of day and then laugh at the poor turnout because they, and others like them, didn't bother to go. Its just so far removed from the general attitude of Europeans hat its sometimes difficult to comprehend.

That's maybe five loud mouths on this board, which is maybe 100 active people? That defines the US attitude? I submit that most, or a good many, of the people who were missing to make it a decent turn out didn't know enough about it happening to be prompted to go.
FreshTopEnd
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7/7/2011 5:12pm
I've always been a bit mystified why Japan isn't a regular stop and why SX, when it made an effort to go overseas, didn't give it a crack again. The races in the 80's seemed to go well and you'd think the OEM's would want it, but?
TDeath21
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7/7/2011 5:16pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I would probably never come back if I were them. The attendance was horrible and the US fans want to see the top US riders. The...
I would probably never come back if I were them. The attendance was horrible and the US fans want to see the top US riders. The US riders have no reason to ride that race, and it would also take away one of their very few off weeks in the season. Really I think they should just stay in Europe for their series so they wouldn't have to transport their bikes overseas.
VOODOO27 wrote:
A stop in the US fit perfect on the MXGP's way to Brasil, didn't it? If they're making the trip to the America's might as well...
A stop in the US fit perfect on the MXGP's way to Brasil, didn't it? If they're making the trip to the America's might as well get them all in together on the same voyage. Mexico looks like it's replacing Glen Helen, if it actually happens. Talk about a fan base, with little disposable income...

On that train of thought, with just staying in Europe; Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Africa, are out of the question for you also? Those countries are 'overseas'... is that why Youthstream doesn't go back there?
I was more so arguing they shouldn't come to the US for their own good. If a GP was close enough for me to drive to, you bet I'll be there to see them. I personally think it was a great idea, but for their own good and profits, they shouldn't come to the US. When I said overseas, I meant North and South America. Poor wording on my part there. Save the racing in or against the US for the MXoN.
jamma10
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7/7/2011 5:16pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 5:19pm
The GPs used to go to Japan regularly, Im not sure why it stopped. Personally I would love an AMA supercross round or two over here somewhere in Europe. Its an idea I've posed many times on here in the past, but logistically and financially it would be a nightmare. Not to mention the stink it would kick up among the fans - if the NFL match at Wembley is anything to go by, no one in the States would bother watching it either.
FreshTopEnd
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7/7/2011 5:22pm
They ran some SX rounds in the intial couple of FIM World Championship years in December before A1, paid for privateers to come, and never really got any traction with top GP or US based riders. Hence Heath Voss as the World Champion when all was said an done in Vegas, if I remember correctly. I think Clear Channel lost a ton of money on that, and given that many of the same people are involved still it's not forgotten. I just remember the mud bog in Spain that was a fiasco.
MXMattii
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7/7/2011 5:36pm
No we should call the World GP's the European Nationals !!

S
ayearinmx wrote:
once again.... Brazil and Mexico are in Europe now? And was America in Europe this year, but no longer in it next year..... budding geographers need...
once again.... Brazil and Mexico are in Europe now? And was America in Europe this year, but no longer in it next year..... budding geographers need to know these facts

i guess people did just decide to drop Pluto.....Whistling
did mexico happen this year ?? I know where the places are and the majority are in Europe, I was born in Zurich, I'm familiar with...
did mexico happen this year ?? I know where the places are and the majority are in Europe, I was born in Zurich, I'm familiar with the European countries.

S
Ooh America is part of Europe, Brazil is also and Mexico next year also! I'm very Happy Mexico is European now because now we all can import cocain without taxes!!

They guy that said that the top 5-7 guys in both series would be top 5-7 guys in either series is a very smart guy!!

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