2-Stroke Reality Dose

calimxer91
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calimxer91 7/6/2011 4:56pm
7/6/2011 4:56pm
Put up a bounty for the privateers.Top placing two stroke gets a 1000 bucks ,sponsored by KLOTZ.See how many of them show up.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 7/6/2011 5:23pm
7/6/2011 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 5:24pm
Setting the argument aside for a moment, I thought this thread was pretty cool from the 2stroke motocross.com site. A steel framed CR 500 in the Finnish round of the MX3 GPs. He finished mid 20s both motos but I bet he got some cheers.

http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/index.php?topic=2581.0
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Shawn142 7/7/2011 4:12am
7/7/2011 4:12am
burn1986 wrote:
We would all like to see that except our wondrous outdoor promoter.
I'm always curious about the hard-on you twostrokemotocross guys have for DC. When I look at that page concerning stuff like this I see guys placing blame directly at DC's feet, even some of them saying if we got rid of him there would be 2-strokes at the pro level. You guys do realize it was DC who pushed this idea to begin with right? Before I ever saw it even whispered about on this board or the crazy 2-stroke taliban I heard DC talking about trying to make the rules in line with amateur stuff they run at Loretta's on the moto shows. Do you seriously think he has some kind of agenda out against 2-strokes?
burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 5:28am
7/7/2011 5:28am
Shawn142 wrote:
I'm always curious about the hard-on you twostrokemotocross guys have for DC. When I look at that page concerning stuff like this I see guys placing...
I'm always curious about the hard-on you twostrokemotocross guys have for DC. When I look at that page concerning stuff like this I see guys placing blame directly at DC's feet, even some of them saying if we got rid of him there would be 2-strokes at the pro level. You guys do realize it was DC who pushed this idea to begin with right? Before I ever saw it even whispered about on this board or the crazy 2-stroke taliban I heard DC talking about trying to make the rules in line with amateur stuff they run at Loretta's on the moto shows. Do you seriously think he has some kind of agenda out against 2-strokes?
Well, in terms of the current 2-stroke involvement in any form of pro racing, what have his efforts produced over the last 5 years (since '06). In other words, what are the results? More 2-stroke involvement or less? This was actually in reference to some sort of 125 series, to at least fill in the gaps of the WMA.

The Shop

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JB 19
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JB 19 7/7/2011 5:36am
7/7/2011 5:36am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 4:06pm
Some of us actually like riding our 4 strokes. Can you even imagine............?
DC
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DC 7/7/2011 5:39am
7/7/2011 5:39am
Shawn, thanks for the support. I am the one guy that listened and tried, but got shot down. Now I am the bad guy. Where was the Manifesto three years ago when I was trying to make this happen? And now, since Burn and friends know I try to stay in touch here and listen to and explain good suggestions, I get to be the "outdoor promoter" that doesn't listen to the masses....

It wasn't part of the job description but I can take it. And who knows what may develop in the coming years.

DC
MX Sports
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jndmx 7/7/2011 5:56am
7/7/2011 5:56am
DC wrote:
Shawn, thanks for the support. I am the one guy that listened and tried, but got shot down. Now I am the bad guy. Where was...
Shawn, thanks for the support. I am the one guy that listened and tried, but got shot down. Now I am the bad guy. Where was the Manifesto three years ago when I was trying to make this happen? And now, since Burn and friends know I try to stay in touch here and listen to and explain good suggestions, I get to be the "outdoor promoter" that doesn't listen to the masses....

It wasn't part of the job description but I can take it. And who knows what may develop in the coming years.

DC
MX Sports
DC

Some of us appreciate all the work, the TV deal especially should be reason enough to be happy.
Keep it up.

I guess some folks don't like to let facts get in the way of a good lynching.
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 6:12am
7/7/2011 6:12am
As some may have seen, I and very few place blame on DC. I shot my post at Jody, and how he can write a manifesto that in no way places blame on his own magazine.
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 6:13am
7/7/2011 6:13am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Everyone was waiting for my opinion. Ha Ha. Seriously, I personally have a huge gripe with the whole thing. First, I'd say a lot of it...
Everyone was waiting for my opinion. Ha Ha. Seriously, I personally have a huge gripe with the whole thing. First, I'd say a lot of it was pre written with almost the same name, by a friend of ours here. He will come forth if he wants, but anyone who remembers the 5 year plan, knows who I'm speaking of. Second, and my largest complaint. Jody is starting to Tiki me off. Pun intended. I don't recall reading anywhere in any of these rants he has, blaming himself on current events (yeah, he does say in the past it was their fault, but not current reasons), or his or any of the magazines for what I started calling for and now others are. A fair shootout. Jody: the buck stops here. Sure, I appreciate you are a 2 stroke fan. But instead of calling out only the ProAMA, MXsports, DC and everyone else. Please, take a step back. They have the rules that are set in place, and most likely won't change until sales or as we say, where the money is. So, the question is, are you gonna start calling out the magazines finally for what we are asking for. A FULL Amateur focused, what we race, buy and ride bike for bike shootout???? Are you gonna add in your rants about how, even though the Pro's are forced to race the crappy rules, we (3rd person like he uses) are also still to blame, because we won't run a FULL shootout for what Amateurs can buy, ride, and race???? We sell magazines to amateurs, we do not sell magazines to Pro's. We do advertisement to amateurs, we do not do advertisements to pros. We do writeups about how to fix bikes to amateurs, we do not do writeups for pros. That is my rant. Love me or hate me, I'm being honest and everyone knows why it isn't happening $. But to only blame others for what is going on, is BS. Step up, or ??? JMHO. Yeah, you guys didn't expect that from a pro 2 stroke guy to a pro 2 stroke guy. I'm gonna get slammed, because I'm not all supportive of someone supporting the 2 stroke cause. But even for 2 stroke guys, it gets old... (Blame game) Full shootouts does more in my opinion, than a pro ranked race.
My rant
burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 6:25am
7/7/2011 6:25am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 6:38am
There has no doubt been positive changes to the sport, I don't think anyone would argue that the sport has wonderful coverage, great internet support, good crowds, and good racing. I appreciate all that DC has done to get the sport in the mainstream media like he has. He has worked overboard running the nationals and producing a successful racing season.

I've already voiced my criticisms of DC and at times have gone overboard. I have tempered my comments from what they used to be, and I have retrained myself to a great extent.

I don't see eye to eye with DC on everything in regard to Pro-racing and 2-stroke involvement. DC has placed himself in the spotlight and is used to criticism. You can't make everyone happy. Even so, I fail to see any positive results or efforts to any suggestions that have been made regarding 2-stroke involvement.

I realize There are bigger people involved than just some guy posting on a web forum. At any rate, I don't see any 2-stroke leeway in Pro racing at any point in MXSports's future.
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 6:36am
7/7/2011 6:36am
I think the fact that SOME manufacturers are making 1500cc and 300cc bikes two strokes (KTM, TM, Husaberg, GasGas & more) is a good indication that they know the rules are unfair and are gearing for a change. Not only that, big bore kits are almost as cheap as a standard rebuild and ironically cheaper than most 4 stroke rebuilds (depending on the extent needed).
gotwings
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gotwings 7/7/2011 7:52am
7/7/2011 7:52am
gotwings wrote:
I got your "Reality Dose" right here: I guess you don't see the writing on the wall, guys. Two strokes are being phased out, four strokes...
I got your "Reality Dose" right here:

I guess you don't see the writing on the wall, guys. Two strokes are being phased out, four strokes are replacing them. The type of engine in these things is a moot point, the top 20 450 guys could jump on a 250f or a 125t and still qualify for a AMA Outdoor 450 National. Same thing that happened with MotoGp, same thing that happened when jet engines took over from piston-engined prop planes. "That'll never fly, it's too heavy and complicated! Look at all the parts it has!"

Get over it, it's a done deal, no sense crying about it, move on, just be glad we still have bikes to ride and racing to watch.

Oh yeah,here's one to put the "four strokes get a HUGE capacity advantage, that's why they beat two-strokes" arguement: Look at the lap times from the top half of the 250f field in ANY race weekend where guys on 250t's qualified in the 450 class.
You'll find the average and fastest lap times are ALWAYS better for the 250f's.
C.c. for c.c., heads up. Now wadda ya gotta say???

WELL?
newmann wrote:
WELL, then there should be absolutely no reason whatsoever that they not be allowed to compete heads up cc for cc then, right? If the 250F...
WELL, then there should be absolutely no reason whatsoever that they not be allowed to compete heads up cc for cc then, right? If the 250F times are consistantly better then where is the problem? Now wadda ya gotta say??



Since you're convinced that the 250F's are faster than 250 2 strokes, what's wrong with this scenario:

125 (6 rounds on off weekends of WMA)
250
Open
I would be 100% for that, if you could make them meet sound, which is an issue with 2-strokes. The sound rules are a lot tougher now, and as you know, 2-stroke power falls off more drasticly when you try to muffle them.
I was at Hangtown when Steve Lamson qualified on a 125(144???) , in 2006, and you could hear that thing over all the 250f's around the entire circuit. He didn't pass sound, but they let him slide, cause he's a local hero. I had roadraced two-strokes, and had to cover my ears on the fence when he went by, wringing it's neck. I don't remember where he finished, but it wasn't in the top half.
Anyways, I own SEVERAL two-stroke racebikes, road and dirt, and appreciate them for what they are, but times change and technology moves on. So should we.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 7:54am
7/7/2011 7:54am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 7:56am
Here's some of the current 2-strokes that he mentioned, showing that technology has definitely not "moved on":

Husaberg TE 125 - 250/300


Husaberg TE 250/300


KTM 125/150


KTM 250


KTM 300


Husky TC 150


Gas Gas 125/144


Gas Gas 300


Fantic 125/250/300


Yamaha 125


Yamaha 250


TM 125/144


TM 250/300
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 7:57am
7/7/2011 7:57am
I like the looks of TM's, but not a huge fan of their color.
gotwings
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gotwings 7/7/2011 8:02am
7/7/2011 8:02am
They will always make trail bikes...
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 8:16am
7/7/2011 8:16am Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 8:34am
gotwings wrote:
I would be 100% for that, if you could make them meet sound, which is an issue with 2-strokes. The sound rules are a lot tougher...
I would be 100% for that, if you could make them meet sound, which is an issue with 2-strokes. The sound rules are a lot tougher now, and as you know, 2-stroke power falls off more drasticly when you try to muffle them.
I was at Hangtown when Steve Lamson qualified on a 125(144???) , in 2006, and you could hear that thing over all the 250f's around the entire circuit. He didn't pass sound, but they let him slide, cause he's a local hero. I had roadraced two-strokes, and had to cover my ears on the fence when he went by, wringing it's neck. I don't remember where he finished, but it wasn't in the top half.
Anyways, I own SEVERAL two-stroke racebikes, road and dirt, and appreciate them for what they are, but times change and technology moves on. So should we.
Everyone including the 4 stroke side guys are baffled by what you just wrote. A 2 stroke will pass the sound test any day compared to the 4 strokes. And the 4 strokes quieted down, is exactly the problem everyone is having because it makes the motor over heat and they lose a ton of power. Opposite of what you just wrote. Sure, up close a 2 stroke may sound louder, but everyone knows at over distance, 4 strokes are much much louder due to the carrying of sound. Thus why ProAMA allows 2 db more on a 2 stroke. Trust me, they will pass with ease. By the way, go read up on the snorkel dohicky pipe. They quiet the 2 strokes down with very little loss.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 8:26am
7/7/2011 8:26am
gotwings wrote:
They will always make trail bikes...
Dude, you make me laugh.

OW38B
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OW38B 7/7/2011 11:25am
7/7/2011 11:25am
These type of threads are the only reason I come in this joint...........................

Equal displacement at ALL levels of racing and be done with it and everything will be fine. Just that simple.

Pit Row

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burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 11:32am
7/7/2011 11:32am
OW38B wrote:
These type of threads are the only reason I come in this joint........................... Equal displacement at ALL levels of racing and be done with it and...
These type of threads are the only reason I come in this joint...........................

Equal displacement at ALL levels of racing and be done with it and everything will be fine. Just that simple.
I know it, most everyone knows it. I think gotwings hit the nail on the head when he said that most of the 250Fs would beat the 250 2-stroke, and a 450F would beat a 450 2-stroke. So there's no real threat of 2-strokes dominating like some people think. Even so, the powers that be are affraid.
OW38B
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OW38B 7/7/2011 11:39am
7/7/2011 11:39am
OW38B wrote:
These type of threads are the only reason I come in this joint........................... Equal displacement at ALL levels of racing and be done with it and...
These type of threads are the only reason I come in this joint...........................

Equal displacement at ALL levels of racing and be done with it and everything will be fine. Just that simple.
burn1986 wrote:
I know it, most everyone knows it. I think gotwings hit the nail on the head when he said that most of the 250Fs would beat...
I know it, most everyone knows it. I think gotwings hit the nail on the head when he said that most of the 250Fs would beat the 250 2-stroke, and a 450F would beat a 450 2-stroke. So there's no real threat of 2-strokes dominating like some people think. Even so, the powers that be are affraid.
You and I see it, but some of the other Vital MX "Jokers" have a myopic view on the subject............sad.
Tiki
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Tiki 7/7/2011 11:52am
7/7/2011 11:52am
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that caused the elimination of these machines in American Society. Let's face it, if you spewed goo from your ass, would you still be walking around in this pollution conscious society?
burn1986
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burn1986 7/7/2011 12:15pm
7/7/2011 12:15pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 12:16pm
Rich and compelling
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 12:17pm
7/7/2011 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 7/7/2011 12:17pm
Tiki wrote:
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that...
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that caused the elimination of these machines in American Society. Let's face it, if you spewed goo from your ass, would you still be walking around in this pollution conscious society?
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4 stroke died off, but Yamaha, you know the same company into MX, is hanging on to the 4 stroke revolution, even though they see the writing on the wall with Jet Skis and SM. They can't let it die off. Go to Coparts and go to the jet ski section. It is very interesting, how many Yamaha's are on there comparably to others, for motor problems. Just interesting.
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Tiki 7/7/2011 12:24pm
7/7/2011 12:24pm
Tiki wrote:
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that...
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that caused the elimination of these machines in American Society. Let's face it, if you spewed goo from your ass, would you still be walking around in this pollution conscious society?
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4...
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4 stroke died off, but Yamaha, you know the same company into MX, is hanging on to the 4 stroke revolution, even though they see the writing on the wall with Jet Skis and SM. They can't let it die off. Go to Coparts and go to the jet ski section. It is very interesting, how many Yamaha's are on there comparably to others, for motor problems. Just interesting.
So what you are saying is: You have an anal leakage problem?
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 12:38pm
7/7/2011 12:38pm
Tiki wrote:
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that...
Things die for a reason, the lot of supporters AND Jody need to realize that. The spewing goo from the ass end was the target that caused the elimination of these machines in American Society. Let's face it, if you spewed goo from your ass, would you still be walking around in this pollution conscious society?
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4...
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4 stroke died off, but Yamaha, you know the same company into MX, is hanging on to the 4 stroke revolution, even though they see the writing on the wall with Jet Skis and SM. They can't let it die off. Go to Coparts and go to the jet ski section. It is very interesting, how many Yamaha's are on there comparably to others, for motor problems. Just interesting.
Tiki wrote:
So what you are saying is: You have an anal leakage problem?
Funny how when you guys don't like the facts, you go personal. Every time. LMFAO
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Tiki 7/7/2011 12:47pm
7/7/2011 12:47pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4...
You are right Tiki, things die off for a reason. Same thing happened in Jet Ski, Snowmobile and other things. Oh wait, I mean the 4 stroke died off, but Yamaha, you know the same company into MX, is hanging on to the 4 stroke revolution, even though they see the writing on the wall with Jet Skis and SM. They can't let it die off. Go to Coparts and go to the jet ski section. It is very interesting, how many Yamaha's are on there comparably to others, for motor problems. Just interesting.
Tiki wrote:
So what you are saying is: You have an anal leakage problem?
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Funny how when you guys don't like the facts, you go personal. Every time. LMFAO
I find it just as humorous at your Functional illiteracy problem. Perhaps you should read what I posted in the thread S-L-O-W-L-Y and respond to that. Not make up shit about different things so you have something to post.

Facts suck don't they.
miedosoracing1 7/7/2011 1:02pm
7/7/2011 1:02pm
I don't even know how to respond to something that stupid. Your analogy was specifically of 2 strokes spew. I showed facts that other industries proved that your over and over crap that you spew about 2 strokes can't pass EPA shit, is false. Boats, Jet Skis, Snowmobiles all pass. They aren't dying out anytime soon, so yeah, facts suck when you make up your shit over and over.
ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/7/2011 1:09pm
7/7/2011 1:09pm
miedosoracing1 wrote:
I don't even know how to respond to something that stupid. Your analogy was specifically of 2 strokes spew. I showed facts that other industries proved...
I don't even know how to respond to something that stupid. Your analogy was specifically of 2 strokes spew. I showed facts that other industries proved that your over and over crap that you spew about 2 strokes can't pass EPA shit, is false. Boats, Jet Skis, Snowmobiles all pass. They aren't dying out anytime soon, so yeah, facts suck when you make up your shit over and over.
Exatly. Not to mention, the ENERGY saved and MONEY saved on less parts used in the manufacturing process.

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