2-Stroke Reality Dose

zookrider62!
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zookrider62! 7/6/2011 6:27am
7/6/2011 6:27am
zookrider62! wrote:
Yes im sure he bought some bike in the 70s and 80s. But we arent talking about the 70s or 80s are we?
burn1986 wrote:
How can you make an intelligent reply without reading the article that this thread is based on? Blink
lol, I read the whole thing....
Shawn142
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Shawn142 7/6/2011 6:34am
7/6/2011 6:34am
ccoady454 wrote:
Apparently a few of you don't get the point. He agrees that the 4 strokes are amazing pieces of machinery. It's the 1997 displacement rule that...
Apparently a few of you don't get the point. He agrees that the 4 strokes are amazing pieces of machinery. It's the 1997 displacement rule that started it all and has it been a free-fall downward spiral ever since. The rule change brought on the idea that the 4 stroke was better ONLY because of the handicap it was given. Hell, I'd play a $1,000,000 18 hole match against Tiger Woods if I was given a 60 stroke (no pun intended) handicap!

"Four-strokes are not more powerful than two-strokes. Their horsepower and torque come from a common parlor trick called “cubic centimeters.” Four-stroke are only competitive with two-strokes because they are larger. Under AMA rules, four-stroke engines are allowed to be as much as 100 percent larger than two-strokes." AKA Handicap
I think everyone clearly gets that. But Jody especially talks out of both sides of his mouth to the point where it's kind of insulting. Most recent example being the YZ250 review and the IQ test comment. Somehow I'm more intelligent if I buy a bike that hasn't changed since 2006 for a price that's more than I could roll a new '11 CRF450 off a showroom floor for. He and the mag clearly do it for shock value and to make the 2-stroke die-hards giggle to each other. But to me the guy is mostly a sham. Like I said, to me he's a used car salesmen.

Personal thoughts on the guy aside I do agree, right now the answer is cheaper and easier to maintain bikes. I realize most people struggle to afford a new 450, or the maintenance on a 250F. For them a 2-stroke is definitely a viable alternative and they should have new options. Right now in my opinion the only new 2-stroke worth buying in the US is the KTM. If I want a YZ I'll go buy a used one for half the price and change the shroud sticker so I can claim it's a 2012.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 6:42am
7/6/2011 6:42am
zookrider62! wrote:
Yes im sure he bought some bike in the 70s and 80s. But we arent talking about the 70s or 80s are we?
burn1986 wrote:
How can you make an intelligent reply without reading the article that this thread is based on? Blink
zookrider62! wrote:
lol, I read the whole thing....
For those who feel that he's right, then by all means go and buy your self a new two stroke, because if you don't, the few OEMs making two strokes are going to stop making them.. It's really is that simple.

BTW: This AMA rule affects "PRO LEVEL RACING" and not the weekend enthusiast .
Fearo
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Fearo 7/6/2011 6:49am
7/6/2011 6:49am
I wonder of there's any truth to this part:

Imagine that I told you that a motorcycle manufacturer was working on a revolutionary engine design for 2013 that was eight pounds lighter, revved quicker, produced ten more horsepower (per quarter liter), had one-tenth the moving parts, was cheap to produce, cost less to maintain and could be rebuilt for a quarter of the price of your four-stroke? Would you be interested?

If so, he's obviously talking about ktm, and according to his statement, a KTM 150 would go up roughly 5 HP :O, wow.

The Shop

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ccoady454
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ccoady454 7/6/2011 7:05am
7/6/2011 7:05am
Fearo wrote:
I wonder of there's any truth to this part: Imagine that I told you that a motorcycle manufacturer was working on a revolutionary engine design for...
I wonder of there's any truth to this part:

Imagine that I told you that a motorcycle manufacturer was working on a revolutionary engine design for 2013 that was eight pounds lighter, revved quicker, produced ten more horsepower (per quarter liter), had one-tenth the moving parts, was cheap to produce, cost less to maintain and could be rebuilt for a quarter of the price of your four-stroke? Would you be interested?

If so, he's obviously talking about ktm, and according to his statement, a KTM 150 would go up roughly 5 HP :O, wow.
Quarter liter......250cc 2st vs 250f
Overdrive
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Overdrive 7/6/2011 7:07am
7/6/2011 7:07am
burn1986 wrote:
How can you make an intelligent reply without reading the article that this thread is based on? Blink
zookrider62! wrote:
lol, I read the whole thing....
jmar wrote:
For those who feel that he's right, then by all means go and buy your self a new two stroke, because if you don't, the few...
For those who feel that he's right, then by all means go and buy your self a new two stroke, because if you don't, the few OEMs making two strokes are going to stop making them.. It's really is that simple.

BTW: This AMA rule affects "PRO LEVEL RACING" and not the weekend enthusiast .
People are buying up to date 2 strokes, look at KTM's new 2 stroke sales. Used 2 strokes are also selling extremely quickly and for a good price, most are selling for more than newer used 4 strokes.

If the AMA stopped giving the 4 stroke and advantage then the big 4 would have to start making up to date 2 strokes again or KTM would totally dominate MX. Also we would have a return to quieter bikes and more affordable racing which would keep people riding and also grow the sport in the tough economic time.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 7:13am
7/6/2011 7:13am
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 7:21am
7/6/2011 7:21am
zookrider62! wrote:
lol, I read the whole thing....
jmar wrote:
For those who feel that he's right, then by all means go and buy your self a new two stroke, because if you don't, the few...
For those who feel that he's right, then by all means go and buy your self a new two stroke, because if you don't, the few OEMs making two strokes are going to stop making them.. It's really is that simple.

BTW: This AMA rule affects "PRO LEVEL RACING" and not the weekend enthusiast .
Overdrive wrote:
People are buying up to date 2 strokes, look at KTM's new 2 stroke sales. Used 2 strokes are also selling extremely quickly and for a...
People are buying up to date 2 strokes, look at KTM's new 2 stroke sales. Used 2 strokes are also selling extremely quickly and for a good price, most are selling for more than newer used 4 strokes.

If the AMA stopped giving the 4 stroke and advantage then the big 4 would have to start making up to date 2 strokes again or KTM would totally dominate MX. Also we would have a return to quieter bikes and more affordable racing which would keep people riding and also grow the sport in the tough economic time.
How many of the complainers here ride older model two strokes?

And quit laying it on the AMA. The rule affects very few local tracks.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/6/2011 7:22am
7/6/2011 7:22am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:23am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:29am
7/6/2011 7:29am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:30am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
burn1986 wrote:
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is...
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
Anyone who actually knows Jody knows what he is says in person agrees with what he said in his manifesto; "I am faster on a 450 than on a 250 but i have more fun on a 250 and I race for fun."
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:36am
7/6/2011 7:36am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:38am
and just an fyi...

Dirtbike and MXA don't have to color their opinions on reviews of Japanese OEM offerings because they are fearful they will pull their ads. The OEMS for all intent and purpose don't place ads in their books.

and that's why you get their opinion about the bikes they test instead of a PR.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:37am
7/6/2011 7:37am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
burn1986 wrote:
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is...
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Anyone who actually knows Jody knows what he is says in person agrees with what he said in his manifesto; "I am faster on a 450...
Anyone who actually knows Jody knows what he is says in person agrees with what he said in his manifesto; "I am faster on a 450 than on a 250 but i have more fun on a 250 and I race for fun."
He's an amateur at this time, so why doesn't he ride a KTM 250sx with a 300 kit on it? He's most likely in the age + classes correct? I thought there was no size limits on those. If Cali ever goes to match the AMA and other amateur areas like Texas, call it over for the 4 strokes. cc for cc, there are less and less 4 stroke riders every year and more and more 2 stroke riders in those areas that allow cc for cc.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:38am
7/6/2011 7:38am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:39am
WORCSRacer wrote:
and just an fyi... Dirtbike and MXA don't have to color their opinions on reviews of Japanese OEM offerings because they are fearful they will pull...
and just an fyi...

Dirtbike and MXA don't have to color their opinions on reviews of Japanese OEM offerings because they are fearful they will pull their ads. The OEMS for all intent and purpose don't place ads in their books.

and that's why you get their opinion about the bikes they test instead of a PR.
BS, then tell them to run a FULL shootout. Both 250cc and open, just like the amateurs. That's the biggest piece of BS I've ever read.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 7:38am
7/6/2011 7:38am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
burn1986 wrote:
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is...
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
The only stupid thing with this whole thread, is that some of you think that the OEMs should be forced to make what a small minority of the buying public wants. Another silly thing about this subject is that this AMA rule affects very few local organizations, so in short, so it has to be some what market driven, considering that there are not a large number of AMA pro racers, and a decent number of these riders don't even buy their bikes.

Bottom line. Things change, things progress. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. At least those of you that don't like this progression have a choice. And that choice will be there as long as the demand is there.
jmar
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jmar 7/6/2011 7:41am
7/6/2011 7:41am
jmar wrote:
[b]2-Stroke Reality Dose[/b] What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW"...
2-Stroke Reality Dose

What Jody should have been saying is, get off you asses, park your old beater and go out and buy yourself a "NEW" two stroke.
If you want them available, then make sure that there is a market for them.

Some of you are your own worse enemy.
burn1986 wrote:
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is...
That continues to be the stupidest thing I think I have ever heard. Jmar do ever listen to what comes out of your mouth? Why is that your only arguement to this thread and any thread concerning the current state of 2-strokes? New 2-strokes sales are as good as they ever have been and even if they were better than 4-strokes, the OEMs wouldn't make more of them. We have gone over and over this.

Who are you now, the AMA champion? Have you read the article or are you just bored at work too.
Who are you now, the AMA champion?

That's what cracks me up about you guys. No logic at all, and it's either your for us, or against us.
mx_579
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mx_579 7/6/2011 7:42am
7/6/2011 7:42am
Knock the limit down to a 350 & 200 four stroke. No matter what opinions anyone has of 2 vs 4 there is no doubt that the current rules heavily favor the thumper. In order to make a rule change there would have to be some kind of window for the mfrs to make the change, like 5 years or so. If there was no agenda why not make the rules fair and let the riders decide which bike they prefer.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:42am
7/6/2011 7:42am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:45am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
He's an amateur at this time, so why doesn't he ride a KTM 250sx with a 300 kit on it? He's most likely in the age...
He's an amateur at this time, so why doesn't he ride a KTM 250sx with a 300 kit on it? He's most likely in the age + classes correct? I thought there was no size limits on those. If Cali ever goes to match the AMA and other amateur areas like Texas, call it over for the 4 strokes. cc for cc, there are less and less 4 stroke riders every year and more and more 2 stroke riders in those areas that allow cc for cc.
Hello Mr. Knowseverything, he does ride one. Who do you think they have built a 300sx project bike for every year for the last three years?

Since you really don't know anything besides what the inside of your colon looks like, just back it down a bit.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:47am
7/6/2011 7:47am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 7:49am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
He's an amateur at this time, so why doesn't he ride a KTM 250sx with a 300 kit on it? He's most likely in the age...
He's an amateur at this time, so why doesn't he ride a KTM 250sx with a 300 kit on it? He's most likely in the age + classes correct? I thought there was no size limits on those. If Cali ever goes to match the AMA and other amateur areas like Texas, call it over for the 4 strokes. cc for cc, there are less and less 4 stroke riders every year and more and more 2 stroke riders in those areas that allow cc for cc.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Hello Mr. Knowseverything, he does ride one. Who do you think they have built a 300sx project bike for every year for the last three years...
Hello Mr. Knowseverything, he does ride one. Who do you think they have built a 300sx project bike for every year for the last three years?

Since you really don't know anything besides what the inside of your colon looks like, just back it down a bit.
Then why is he using a 250cc comparison to the 450. Why not tell people to start racing the 300 or other overbores? I'd like to know the reason that they aren't doing a full shootout as well still. By the way, I know enough to call BS. Pic of him on the YZ250 that he tells us that we are stupid if we don't buy.

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WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:48am
7/6/2011 7:48am
mx_579 wrote:
Knock the limit down to a 350 & 200 four stroke. No matter what opinions anyone has of 2 vs 4 there is no doubt that...
Knock the limit down to a 350 & 200 four stroke. No matter what opinions anyone has of 2 vs 4 there is no doubt that the current rules heavily favor the thumper. In order to make a rule change there would have to be some kind of window for the mfrs to make the change, like 5 years or so. If there was no agenda why not make the rules fair and let the riders decide which bike they prefer.
Ya you've got a great plan there. Lets make the current bikes orphans or better yet we need more classes at the local MX races, shorter motos and longer days....
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:51am
7/6/2011 7:51am
mx_579 wrote:
Knock the limit down to a 350 & 200 four stroke. No matter what opinions anyone has of 2 vs 4 there is no doubt that...
Knock the limit down to a 350 & 200 four stroke. No matter what opinions anyone has of 2 vs 4 there is no doubt that the current rules heavily favor the thumper. In order to make a rule change there would have to be some kind of window for the mfrs to make the change, like 5 years or so. If there was no agenda why not make the rules fair and let the riders decide which bike they prefer.
WORCSRacer wrote:
Ya you've got a great plan there. Lets make the current bikes orphans or better yet we need more classes at the local MX races, shorter...
Ya you've got a great plan there. Lets make the current bikes orphans or better yet we need more classes at the local MX races, shorter motos and longer days....
Not really, think of it this way. It needs to go back to the old 70-90's rules. 125 2 stroke and up to I believe 200cc 4 stroke. 250cc 2 stroke and up to 360cc 4 stroke, may be 370cc, can't remember off hand. Then open class. So there are no more classes, because they already exist.
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:53am
7/6/2011 7:53am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Then why is he using a 250cc comparison to the 450. Why not tell people to start racing the 300 or other overbores? I'd like to...
Then why is he using a 250cc comparison to the 450. Why not tell people to start racing the 300 or other overbores? I'd like to know the reason that they aren't doing a full shootout as well still. By the way, I know enough to call BS. Pic of him on the YZ250 that he tells us that we are stupid if we don't buy.
Because for most people a 250 is more approachable and easier to ride than the 300. Unless you go with the 300XC type set up the 300sx is more than most people can handle for a longer moto AND is pretty much a rolling example of why four strokes are so effective as a moto mount. They are easier to race in a real 20 minute+ moto.
WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 7:55am
7/6/2011 7:55am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Not really, think of it this way. It needs to go back to the old 70-90's rules. 125 2 stroke and up to I believe 200cc...
Not really, think of it this way. It needs to go back to the old 70-90's rules. 125 2 stroke and up to I believe 200cc 4 stroke. 250cc 2 stroke and up to 360cc 4 stroke, may be 370cc, can't remember off hand. Then open class. So there are no more classes, because they already exist.
sarcasm retard.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:56am
7/6/2011 7:56am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 8:05am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Not really, think of it this way. It needs to go back to the old 70-90's rules. 125 2 stroke and up to I believe 200cc...
Not really, think of it this way. It needs to go back to the old 70-90's rules. 125 2 stroke and up to I believe 200cc 4 stroke. 250cc 2 stroke and up to 360cc 4 stroke, may be 370cc, can't remember off hand. Then open class. So there are no more classes, because they already exist.
WORCSRacer wrote:
sarcasm retard.
Look in the mirror retard, your sarcasm still had your opinion in it, and answer my question. If you know Jody so well, why doesn't MXA run a full shootout, since they aren't scared of the OEM's pulling $? 3rd time asking.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/6/2011 7:57am
7/6/2011 7:57am
jmar wrote:
The only stupid thing with this whole thread, is that some of you think that the OEMs should be forced to make what a small minority...
The only stupid thing with this whole thread, is that some of you think that the OEMs should be forced to make what a small minority of the buying public wants. Another silly thing about this subject is that this AMA rule affects very few local organizations, so in short, so it has to be some what market driven, considering that there are not a large number of AMA pro racers, and a decent number of these riders don't even buy their bikes.

Bottom line. Things change, things progress. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. At least those of you that don't like this progression have a choice. And that choice will be there as long as the demand is there.
What is allowed in Pro racing trickles down to the amatuers and eventually sales figures. The AMA controls what is allowed in Pro racing. The only motivating factor for the AMA is to keep the OEMs happy so they don't pull out of the series (Again, Honda is not racing or building bikes for sales, they build them and organize their busines for pride. If they don't sell, then they will pull out of dirt bikes racing altogether). To say the AMA has nothing to do with this is just ignorance. The OEMs have already ceased making 2-strokes (YZ and KTM haven't, duh) but the demand remains.

Man, I can't believe I have to explain this again. I wonder why I bother.
miedosoracing1 7/6/2011 7:58am
7/6/2011 7:58am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Because for most people a 250 is more approachable and easier to ride than the 300. Unless you go with the 300XC type set up the...
Because for most people a 250 is more approachable and easier to ride than the 300. Unless you go with the 300XC type set up the 300sx is more than most people can handle for a longer moto AND is pretty much a rolling example of why four strokes are so effective as a moto mount. They are easier to race in a real 20 minute+ moto.
Everyone mods their bikes. modding a 300sx type to a XC style is as simple as changing a spring and putting a Fing map switch on. I don't believe what you are typing for answers. The 300 setup weighs about 15 pounds less probably too, so saying most people couldn't handle them is just crazy, if they are doing fine on a modded 450F.
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MX7MX 7/6/2011 7:58am
7/6/2011 7:58am
Still, no matter what they say in the magazine, or on this board.........NOTHING has changed and there is no writing on the wall that it will.
burn1986
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burn1986 7/6/2011 8:07am
7/6/2011 8:07am Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 8:12am
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have asked MXA (and just about every other mag) time and time again to do a full 250 shootout to at least include a 2-stroke over 125cc to no avail. To say that MXA is not influenced by the OEMs is completely absurd and foolhearted. Dear Lord.
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jmar 7/6/2011 8:16am
7/6/2011 8:16am
burn1986 wrote:
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have...
Well, it may not have changed yet, but there is 4480 people that I know of so far that want to see a change. I have asked MXA (and just about every other mag) time and time again to do a full 250 shootout to at least include a 2-stroke over 125cc to no avail. To say that MXA is not influenced by the OEMs is completely absurd and foolhearted. Dear Lord.
Honest question here.

Out of those 4480 people that signed this. How many of them have bought a new two stroke in the last five years?
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WORCSRacer 7/6/2011 8:21am
7/6/2011 8:21am
miedosoracing1 wrote:
Everyone mods their bikes. modding a 300sx type to a XC style is as simple as changing a spring and putting a Fing map switch on...
Everyone mods their bikes. modding a 300sx type to a XC style is as simple as changing a spring and putting a Fing map switch on. I don't believe what you are typing for answers. The 300 setup weighs about 15 pounds less probably too, so saying most people couldn't handle them is just crazy, if they are doing fine on a modded 450F.
How many people need a "modded" 450? Now if by needing you mean so you can impress your buddys in the pits while you stand around talking about how badass you are (instead of actually riding) and how the 450 just wasn't enough for you...


Hey BTW how is your new race series coming along? Jackass.

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