Gas.......an interesting perspective.

xewbx
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xewbx
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 12:12pm
Median income per family household in 1980 was 21,000 dollars.

The average price of gas for 1980 was 1.10 per gallon.

If you used 25 gallons of gas per week to commute, you paid .07 percent of your weekly earnings for gas.

Median income per family household today: 67,500 (projected, last hard data was '06 census which had it at 48******)

Average price of gas: 3.77

25 gallons per week to commute = .07 percent of weekly earnings for gas.
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kdx man
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kdx man 5/15/2008 8:37pm
5/15/2008 8:37pm
I cant think of a single friend or even somebody I know my age that makes 67,500 a year.

My income hasnt changed much over the past 3 years, but the price of gas sure as shit has. Speculators can eat it.
APLMAN
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APLMAN 5/15/2008 8:38pm
5/15/2008 8:38pm
If the 06 census was 48000 median, then the 67500 08 figure represents a 40% increase in only 2 years.......
zjbell
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zjbell 5/15/2008 9:53pm
5/15/2008 9:53pm
As long as they still sell it, I won't bitch that much.
APLMAN
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APLMAN 5/15/2008 9:56pm
5/15/2008 9:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:59pm
zjbell wrote:
As long as they still sell it, I won't bitch that much.
True....

I don't think today's price is the biggest issue, it's the steep curve it has had recently.....

A few percent a year would have been much easier for people to budget around....

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Scotty
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Scotty 5/15/2008 10:13pm
5/15/2008 10:13pm
It was 80-90 cents a gallon when Reagan was Pres.. Whats your point?
Scotty
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Scotty 5/15/2008 10:19pm
5/15/2008 10:19pm
It was also $1.10 when Bush Sr was prez. Doesn't he have ties to the oil industry?
xewbx
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xewbx 5/16/2008 5:05am
5/16/2008 5:05am
That's an interesting point.........I'll dig it up. I'll look for say..........1994.
rucka356
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rucka356 5/16/2008 5:10am
5/16/2008 5:10am
In 1980 there weren't nearly as many wives working as there are now. A family cannot survive anymore on a single income. Just look at the Beaver. June never worked. Ward supported the entire family.
xewbx
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xewbx 5/16/2008 5:26am
5/16/2008 5:26am
1994, Median Income: 32,264
Price per gallon of gas: 1.18

25 gallons a week for commuting would be .05% of weekly income.

But if we look at 96..........it's right back at .07%

Interesting,,,,, the difference is negligible. I kind of played with this going back a few years, and the variance is no more than a couple tenths of a percentage point in just about any give year.

I'm almost tempted to spend some time graphing this to see what it looks like over time.........but just eyballing it.........it appears that during periods of recession, the gas prices "catches up" to about .07% or so just prior. It almost seems that you could use it as a recession indicator. At periods where there is an apparent economic boom, where income shoots up faster than normal........it outstrips the price of gas. It almost seems that you could make the following statement: Any rapid rise in income will eventually be met by an equal rise in gas prices.

I'm maybe seeing something that isn't there...........just interesting how negligible the spread actually is.
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jtomasik 5/16/2008 5:34am
5/16/2008 5:34am
Has the dual income household increased? If so, then that might be where the income increase comes from. And, if both people are commuting, then the miles traveled are double, and so is the percentage.

Additionally, the price of fuel is now hitting the price of food. We should start looking at that.
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dougie 5/16/2008 6:05am
5/16/2008 6:05am
APLMAN wrote:
If the 06 census was 48000 median, then the 67500 08 figure represents a 40% increase in only 2 years.......
That is a bit hard to believe. I wonder when they come up with the median figure if they take the richest and the poorest Americans into account. I just heard the other day some figure about how in the past few years how much more the top 1% of the populations incomes increased and how little the middle classes incomes increased. Perhaps the rich getting richer and the middle class income increasing slightly less than the cost of living when averaged together makes it look like the average person (err median) is making more money. Then again median doesnt mean average does it?
xewbx
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xewbx 5/16/2008 6:14am
5/16/2008 6:14am
jtomasik wrote:
Has the dual income household increased? If so, then that might be where the income increase comes from. And, if both people are commuting, then the...
Has the dual income household increased? If so, then that might be where the income increase comes from. And, if both people are commuting, then the miles traveled are double, and so is the percentage.

Additionally, the price of fuel is now hitting the price of food. We should start looking at that.
Well, I tried to base all the data on the median household income of a 2-4 member household. No doubt some of the household income growth represents the fact that more wives are working in high paying career fields instead of service sector or other low paying jobs which was more common in the 80's. Far as the miles.........I'm just referencing it to price per gallon. Changing commuter mileage will skew the data, that's why I made that a common number of 25 gallons. No way you can account for the fact that a lower median income in 1980 still probably represented a two income family, though one would likely be a min wage service sector job........but that would still equal commuting miles. Then fast forward to '08 where that dual income probably represents two professional incomes........you see what I'm getting at? No way to balance out all the variables. On top of that, we'd also have to account for the better average fuel economy of vehicles today..........etc. That's why I simply used gallons, make it a stable variable. I'm not saying the other factors won't affect the number.......but I think in the end, it's all a wash and they won't make a significant difference.


The food issue is a different story..........everything above, all based on gas. Diesel is the driver behind food prices..........and it won't track along the same path as gas at all. The cost of diesel is waaayyyy up. And it went it up fast as well. This is going to have a HUGE impact on food. We haven't seen shit yet either...........wait until Sep/Oct.........and on. Groceries are going to get extremely expensive, any fresh produce especially. We'll import a LOT of veggies from Mexico this year to make up for it.........MX produce will be extremely cheap because their fuel prices are basically the same as they were a year ago.
xewbx
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xewbx 5/16/2008 6:20am
5/16/2008 6:20am
dougie wrote:
That is a bit hard to believe. I wonder when they come up with the median figure if they take the richest and the poorest Americans...
That is a bit hard to believe. I wonder when they come up with the median figure if they take the richest and the poorest Americans into account. I just heard the other day some figure about how in the past few years how much more the top 1% of the populations incomes increased and how little the middle classes incomes increased. Perhaps the rich getting richer and the middle class income increasing slightly less than the cost of living when averaged together makes it look like the average person (err median) is making more money. Then again median doesnt mean average does it?
Right, median, not to be confused with average..........and the dynamics of working families started shifting in the late 90's as well.........with more women pursuing professional careers. This would logically represent an escalating median income from 2000 on........which the census data shows.

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jtomasik 5/16/2008 7:01am
5/16/2008 7:01am
I think the median income may be skewing the conclusion we're arriving at. A lot of expenses have changed, such as the cost of the average home, the cost of insurance, heck, essentially the cost of living. If a person has less spending income after the bills are paid than they did back in the 1980's, then the increased fuel cost hurts more.

My guess there's a better "income" measure we should be looking at. I don't know what it is. Where's Premix when you need him?
APLMAN
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APLMAN 5/16/2008 7:14am
5/16/2008 7:14am
APLMAN wrote:
If the 06 census was 48000 median, then the 67500 08 figure represents a 40% increase in only 2 years.......
dougie wrote:
That is a bit hard to believe. I wonder when they come up with the median figure if they take the richest and the poorest Americans...
That is a bit hard to believe. I wonder when they come up with the median figure if they take the richest and the poorest Americans into account. I just heard the other day some figure about how in the past few years how much more the top 1% of the populations incomes increased and how little the middle classes incomes increased. Perhaps the rich getting richer and the middle class income increasing slightly less than the cost of living when averaged together makes it look like the average person (err median) is making more money. Then again median doesnt mean average does it?
I think the 48000 might have been a typo, might should have been 58000. The 67500 would still seem a bit optimistic, but not quite as much as before. This graph roughly corresponds with that.

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Frogman 5/16/2008 7:56am
5/16/2008 7:56am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:59pm
jtomasik wrote:
I think the median income may be skewing the conclusion we're arriving at. A lot of expenses have changed, such as the cost of the average...
I think the median income may be skewing the conclusion we're arriving at. A lot of expenses have changed, such as the cost of the average home, the cost of insurance, heck, essentially the cost of living. If a person has less spending income after the bills are paid than they did back in the 1980's, then the increased fuel cost hurts more.

My guess there's a better "income" measure we should be looking at. I don't know what it is. Where's Premix when you need him?
If the cost of fuel stays stable at .07, but you have less spending income after the bills, then gas for your car isn't the problem.

I agree though...I have never like median. I prefer average income.
xewbx
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xewbx 5/16/2008 10:38am
5/16/2008 10:38am
jtomasik wrote:
I think the median income may be skewing the conclusion we're arriving at. A lot of expenses have changed, such as the cost of the average...
I think the median income may be skewing the conclusion we're arriving at. A lot of expenses have changed, such as the cost of the average home, the cost of insurance, heck, essentially the cost of living. If a person has less spending income after the bills are paid than they did back in the 1980's, then the increased fuel cost hurts more.

My guess there's a better "income" measure we should be looking at. I don't know what it is. Where's Premix when you need him?
I don't disagree with that at all...........

I think a major part of the current problem is that people are saddling themselves with far more debt now than they did in the past.

One reason that the sudden rise of fuel prices is really hurting people is due directly to the housing boom as well. I think the rise in home prices resulted in people trading a long commute for a less costly home. So you have somebody that's commuting 30 miles, and could barely afford their mortgage.........and now all the sudden their commute costs nearly twice as much.........that is enough to push people that were barely holding on, right over the edge.

It seems that in the 80's, most families had 1 or 2 credit cards, one car payment, and a single mortgage. Now, they have 5 or 6 credit cards, two car payments, and likely a 2nd.

While both then and now, the cost of 25 gallons of gas may in fact represent the same percentage of weekly income...........I bet if we translated into a percentage of weekly DISPOSABLE income, the story would be far different.

Anyhoo........I just thought it was an interesting way of looking at it.
Jarid332
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Jarid332 5/16/2008 10:42am
5/16/2008 10:42am
I moved to Maine in November of 1998, and Gas was like 91 cents a gallon I believe. It only took 10 bucks to fill my dad's car.

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Tiki 5/16/2008 10:48am
5/16/2008 10:48am
Starting to sound like Premix... watch it.
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volcati 5/16/2008 10:56am
5/16/2008 10:56am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:59pm
It seems that in the 80's, most families had 1 or 2 credit cards, one car payment, and a single mortgage. Now, they have 5 or 6 credit cards, two car payments, and likely a 2nd.


Could of been where I was living at the time (Dallas) but I remember tons of my friend's family's over their head's in debt. When the oil and S&L crisis hit...I remember parents who drove Porsches, MB's, Caddy's...lose them all. One family I knew of the husband and wife killed themselves in their garage--started their MB up and let it go...their daughter came home and found them.

I used to always think my family was poor...but my dad always said, "Nothing is ever as it seems". He was right...most of these folks had tons of credit...but no liquid cash. When the bottom dropped they had nothing. Kind of like a lot of folks today. Actually...the 80's remind me of now a lot.

I went to the same high school as Cameron and Breeze both MD members here...so they could vouch for that enviroment in the mid-to-late 80s.
Dirty Britches 5/16/2008 12:34pm
5/16/2008 12:34pm
rucka356 wrote:
In 1980 there weren't nearly as many wives working as there are now. A family cannot survive anymore on a single income. Just look at the...
In 1980 there weren't nearly as many wives working as there are now. A family cannot survive anymore on a single income. Just look at the Beaver. June never worked. Ward supported the entire family.
I support my wife and 3 kids just fine. Things get tight at times and my wife freaks out, but I tell her if I lost my job today we could live 7 months on our savings before we would have to break into the 401k plan.
It's called living withing your means, something a vast majority of Americans can't seem to grasp (and it's not easy!).

There was a small study done and basically the end result was - on a standard suburban block, the family that thought they had the least, actually had the most. The family that thought they had the most, had the least.
I agree, things are not always as they appear. When I see new furniture, new car, garage full of toys, I see debt. Some other people see as "they're rich". hmmmmm
rucka356
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rucka356 5/16/2008 12:47pm
5/16/2008 12:47pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2008 12:48pm
Living within your means?? Does that mean I should let the wifey stay home in a double wide because real estate prices have sky rocketed so much that that is all I could afford without her working? Get real. I live within my means. I sold my bike, no car payment, and bought a decent 1600 sq ft. house. I have plenty in savings, but without her working we couldn't make it. I got a good job, but spending $275 a month on gas to drive back and forth to work every month, is a bit much. Thats not including the ladies gas either.

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