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Dallas, TX, USA
Fantasy
Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 12:31pm
Everyone talks about going electric to save the earth but anyone with their head out of their butt realizes it has much more to do with independence from foreign oil. Our economy depends greatly on transportation and any increase in transportation cost negatively impacts our economy nearly immediately.
So the government has been pushing electric cars and hybrids as the solution - beating it into us that they are the solution of the future. Definitely not a solution to pollution because well to wheel analysis shows that they are about the same when you take into account manufacturing. Really they are just a solution to the petroleum independence.
But here's the kicker - those electric cars depend on expensive batteries that are made with really rare metals - metals that can be found primarily in Asia. An article in the Wall Street Journal today showed the first signs of the dangers as China, which controls 95% of the supply, implemented new regulations to tighten exports of these metals and drive up their supply. So far these metals have been used in small consumption or small scale formats - cell phones and computers that, while everyone has one, require minimal quantities. But if everyone had an electric car with 1500-2000 times the battery capacity of their cell phones, what do you think that will do to the price of these metals and thus the price of the cars? And something like this wouldn't just affect transportation costs, it would affect the price of all consumer electronics, communication systems and even defense systems.
You're taking one problem, investing a whole bunch of money to alter our infrastructure and technology, just to land in a possibly worse spot!
So the government has been pushing electric cars and hybrids as the solution - beating it into us that they are the solution of the future. Definitely not a solution to pollution because well to wheel analysis shows that they are about the same when you take into account manufacturing. Really they are just a solution to the petroleum independence.
But here's the kicker - those electric cars depend on expensive batteries that are made with really rare metals - metals that can be found primarily in Asia. An article in the Wall Street Journal today showed the first signs of the dangers as China, which controls 95% of the supply, implemented new regulations to tighten exports of these metals and drive up their supply. So far these metals have been used in small consumption or small scale formats - cell phones and computers that, while everyone has one, require minimal quantities. But if everyone had an electric car with 1500-2000 times the battery capacity of their cell phones, what do you think that will do to the price of these metals and thus the price of the cars? And something like this wouldn't just affect transportation costs, it would affect the price of all consumer electronics, communication systems and even defense systems.
You're taking one problem, investing a whole bunch of money to alter our infrastructure and technology, just to land in a possibly worse spot!
The only way solar power has a chance in hell to make a dent in our energy future is if cheap, efficient storage system are developed. The future of energy storage (as of today) all involves rare-earth minerals from Asia and the middle east. Solar generators (and wind) have such a low energy density that efficient storage has to be available to make them even marginally useful.
No matter the source, the problem is the battery technology and the chemicals and metals used to make them.
In about 10 or 15 years time we will see the president asking companies like Intel, Apple, MS, etc to develop new technology that isn't dependent on these materials.
Think about this for a minute. There isn't a single technology or automotive company that isn't counting on China as a major source of growth over the next 10-20 years. It's already built into their stock price. Do you think China will not prioritize its own companies and give them a competitive advantage over foreign companies?
I just see this becoming a huge issue in the next 2 decades.
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S
Sounds like an environmental issue to me
I cannot find the article at the moment but with some searching I'm sure you could find it.
Oh and yes, Sondra is right the batteries are damn expensive couple thousand I believe. I know this because I had to replace the ones in my prius
(Jk.... I do not own a prius)
So i googled hybred battery replacement costs, and learned quite a bit, they have an 8 yr warr. the replacement costs were way lower than i expected ranging from 2300$ to 2600$ for a new one thru Toyota, however you can get a used one thru ebay for 1000$
..Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
how many are not getting recycled who knows, but if i was a scrap dealer/junk yard owner or w/e, i would cut out w/e was left of the battery just to get the 200$ reward from Toyota
But for me the xtra cost of a hybrid still doesnt justify, if you had a Corolla, that gets 33 mpg and the hybrid gets 45mpg,it takes way to long to see any difference in costs of gas per vehicle.
S
Mazda SkyActiv G
Ford Escape hybrid battery was $7700.00 a couple years back. That vehicle has a separate air conditioner mounted in the lt. rear quarter panel full of freon to keep the greenies happy. The big plus to the Escape is that it averaged 1 mpg better than its gasoline only counterpart in our local county fleet!!
Recent study showed the average age of cars on the road in the US is right around ten years. That's right about the time for hybrid battery warranties to run out leaving the car basically a total loss when the battery dies.
I'm not a fan. While I think the idea of a hybrid is good, it's painfully obvious that it takes entirely too much to accomplish way too little.
Small diesel engines are in small pickups and vans all over this world but not here.
But back to the subject, it's upsetting how much money the US is investing into electric car technology.
Pit Row
I know 20 mpg doesn't seem all that great, but these are 1 ton 4X4 crew cab trucks i'm talkin' about here.
We could have diesel engines here that go a long way towards making us less dependent on petroleum.
Many of the power plants are even older and less efficient than the old cars.
We also have a complete lack of charging infrastructure. What if you live in an apartment? Is everybody going to be running extension cords out their windows to the street at night?
Post a reply to: This is why I think electric cars are not wise