Does US need a GP Star (or want one)?

APLMAN99
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5/13/2011 8:28am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
There is delusion here, but mostly coming from you......

Your inferiority complex is shining through just a little bit too brightly.
FreshTopEnd
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5/13/2011 8:48am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2011 8:49am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues.

The migration of top tier riders is one way. The fact that those riders come here and do well is testimony to the quality of the riders in the GP series. No serious fan disputes that. But apparently many of the best talent see better opportunities elsewhere.

The only thing that keeps the GPs from being highest ambition of all the best riders in the world is the series promoter.
jamma10
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5/13/2011 8:53am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
APLMAN99 wrote:
There is delusion here, but mostly coming from you......

Your inferiority complex is shining through just a little bit too brightly.
If you took the same simpleton view you could also say 'The worlds top soccer players play in the English Premier league for a reason', implying that the standard is higher and they get paid more here. But the Spanish League is full of just as many top players and Barcelona are currently the best team in Europe, arguably the world.

Mccread may go on occasionally, but he never claims that GP riders are better. The one thing that he always maintains is simply the fact that the GP's are every bit as credible as the Outdoor Nationals. There is a very fine difference between the calibre of riders from 1st to 15th in both series, so to say ALL the best riders in the world are racing the Outdoor Nationals is just plain wrong.
jamma10
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5/13/2011 9:00am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues. The migration of top tier riders is one...
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues.

The migration of top tier riders is one way. The fact that those riders come here and do well is testimony to the quality of the riders in the GP series. No serious fan disputes that. But apparently many of the best talent see better opportunities elsewhere.

The only thing that keeps the GPs from being highest ambition of all the best riders in the world is the series promoter.
To be fair keeping one issue separate from another has always been difficult in these ongoing tit for tat debates. There are many different angles involved so the lines always gets blurred, its probably why no one ever gets anywhere.

It almost inevitably turns into a discussion about the numerous reasons why some European riders choose to ply their trade in the states.

The Shop

FreshTopEnd
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5/13/2011 9:08am
What are the "numerous" reasons?

I mean 99% of the time the reason a rider chooses one series over the other is the opportunity that choice presents.
David Izer
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5/13/2011 9:09am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues. The migration of top tier riders is one...
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues.

The migration of top tier riders is one way. The fact that those riders come here and do well is testimony to the quality of the riders in the GP series. No serious fan disputes that. But apparently many of the best talent see better opportunities elsewhere.

The only thing that keeps the GPs from being highest ambition of all the best riders in the world is the series promoter.
The series-management issue was my point. I've never been one to get into the us v. them debate - simply stating that you can't ignore that riders filter to the US and I believe a large part of that migration is how the GP's are run.

I have the utmost respect for the GP riders and would love to see us compete with them on a regular basis. What true MX fan wouldn't?
mccread
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5/13/2011 9:09am
David Izer wrote:
Good points, Todd. :) The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and...
Good points, Todd. Smile

The only way to really make this work is to co-promote the race and make it a round of the nationals and GP's. That would instantly get the fans and factories on board.

As it stands now, this race holds little, if any true value in the US. It's sad, but I wouldn't get in bed with them either. The world's top riders race in the US for a reason.
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues. The migration of top tier riders is one...
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues.

The migration of top tier riders is one way. The fact that those riders come here and do well is testimony to the quality of the riders in the GP series. No serious fan disputes that. But apparently many of the best talent see better opportunities elsewhere.

The only thing that keeps the GPs from being highest ambition of all the best riders in the world is the series promoter.
Again, we have been through this... that is to do with the media coverage and the American's insulated mindset.

The reason they go is because they grow up watching the US series and see it in all their magazines... whereas in America they give the GPs no coverage so none of them know anything about it and spin the lie that the GPs aren't as good as the AMA nationals... therefore they aren't inspired to race it.. you are inspired by what you see.

Also Americans on the whole struggle to live and race outside their own country.. that goes for most motorsports. So they are less inclined to race a series that will involve racing in different foreign countries, when it is easier to race in their own country. That is the problem not the fact that the AMA series has better riders or the GPs have a lack of competition lol


America has supercross as well... but it is a blatant lie to say all the best go to America.. look at the line up of talent in MX1 atm GPs are very healthy in terms of rider quality... just as good as the AMA... and the fact the odd GP rider goes there and takes a factory ride of an American and runs at the front.. in the Americans's backyard proves how fast the GPs are too.
APLMAN99
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5/13/2011 9:12am
jamma10 wrote:
If you took the same simpleton view you could also say 'The worlds top soccer players play in the English Premier league for a reason', implying...
If you took the same simpleton view you could also say 'The worlds top soccer players play in the English Premier league for a reason', implying that the standard is higher and they get paid more here. But the Spanish League is full of just as many top players and Barcelona are currently the best team in Europe, arguably the world.

Mccread may go on occasionally, but he never claims that GP riders are better. The one thing that he always maintains is simply the fact that the GP's are every bit as credible as the Outdoor Nationals. There is a very fine difference between the calibre of riders from 1st to 15th in both series, so to say ALL the best riders in the world are racing the Outdoor Nationals is just plain wrong.
I have no idea which soccer league might have the best players, it's not a sport I follow. Chances are, one league probably has better players overall than another, but I'll let you decide which it is.

I don't think anyone has ever said that ALL the best riders in the world are racing the US Nationals. However, it's pretty apparent that most of the top GP riders move to America, depleting the overall talent pool of the GPs.

Perhaps you are confusing this as a comparison of American riders with Euro and Aus/NZ/SA riders? That's not the issue. As a rule, I don't subscribe to the notion that American riders are necessarily better, although at the current time I think that RV is probably the top guy in the world right now. The fact is that the AMA series is now an international series, with GP champions coming over and increasing the depth of talent while depleting the GP pool. It's simple logic, really.

Would the GPs be better with Pourcel, Rattray, Musquin, etc. over there? Absolutely. That would be hard to argue against. And the fact that they are now racing the AMA series only serves to increase the level of competition over here.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.
mccread
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5/13/2011 9:13am
mccread wrote:
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest. The GP series is just as...
And the the last line is the deluded problem many in America have, and why the GP generates no interest.

The GP series is just as good quality wise as the US series.
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues. The migration of top tier riders is one...
The source of you delusion is that you can't keep the quality-of -rider issues from the series-management issues.

The migration of top tier riders is one way. The fact that those riders come here and do well is testimony to the quality of the riders in the GP series. No serious fan disputes that. But apparently many of the best talent see better opportunities elsewhere.

The only thing that keeps the GPs from being highest ambition of all the best riders in the world is the series promoter.
David Izer wrote:
The series-management issue was my point. I've never been one to get into the us v. them debate - simply stating that you can't ignore that...
The series-management issue was my point. I've never been one to get into the us v. them debate - simply stating that you can't ignore that riders filter to the US and I believe a large part of that migration is how the GP's are run.

I have the utmost respect for the GP riders and would love to see us compete with them on a regular basis. What true MX fan wouldn't?
If you have the upmost respect for the GP riders why did you say the riders in the AMA are better? That is disrespecful to guys like Cairoli, Nagl, Frossard, Roczen, Herlings, Desalle, Osborne etc.

It is simply not true... the riders in the GPs are just as good as the US series... especially if they raced the Americans in a World series, it would be very close.
mccread
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5/13/2011 9:18am Edited Date/Time 5/13/2011 9:18am
jamma10 wrote:
If you took the same simpleton view you could also say 'The worlds top soccer players play in the English Premier league for a reason', implying...
If you took the same simpleton view you could also say 'The worlds top soccer players play in the English Premier league for a reason', implying that the standard is higher and they get paid more here. But the Spanish League is full of just as many top players and Barcelona are currently the best team in Europe, arguably the world.

Mccread may go on occasionally, but he never claims that GP riders are better. The one thing that he always maintains is simply the fact that the GP's are every bit as credible as the Outdoor Nationals. There is a very fine difference between the calibre of riders from 1st to 15th in both series, so to say ALL the best riders in the world are racing the Outdoor Nationals is just plain wrong.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I have no idea which soccer league might have the best players, it's not a sport I follow. Chances are, one league probably has better players...
I have no idea which soccer league might have the best players, it's not a sport I follow. Chances are, one league probably has better players overall than another, but I'll let you decide which it is.

I don't think anyone has ever said that ALL the best riders in the world are racing the US Nationals. However, it's pretty apparent that most of the top GP riders move to America, depleting the overall talent pool of the GPs.

Perhaps you are confusing this as a comparison of American riders with Euro and Aus/NZ/SA riders? That's not the issue. As a rule, I don't subscribe to the notion that American riders are necessarily better, although at the current time I think that RV is probably the top guy in the world right now. The fact is that the AMA series is now an international series, with GP champions coming over and increasing the depth of talent while depleting the GP pool. It's simple logic, really.

Would the GPs be better with Pourcel, Rattray, Musquin, etc. over there? Absolutely. That would be hard to argue against. And the fact that they are now racing the AMA series only serves to increase the level of competition over here.

It really isn't that hard of a concept to grasp.
When they raced the GPs the US fans gave them no respect, suddenlt when they race the AMA and run with top Americans they get treated as some of the best riders in the world LOL

That is the problem... you can never believe the GPs are keep producing quality riders.. the fact those guys race the AMA prove just how good the GP series is.

95% of the riders stay in the World Championship.. but you never list them....look at the depth in MX1 15 GP winners in that class right now. I like it when GP riders go to the USA and do well because it proves just how fast the World Championship is to Americans.
APLMAN99
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5/13/2011 9:25am
mccread wrote:
When they raced the GPs the US fans gave them no respect, suddenlt when they race the AMA and run with top Americans they get treated...
When they raced the GPs the US fans gave them no respect, suddenlt when they race the AMA and run with top Americans they get treated as some of the best riders in the world LOL

That is the problem... you can never believe the GPs are keep producing quality riders.. the fact those guys race the AMA prove just how good the GP series is.

95% of the riders stay in the World Championship.. but you never list them....look at the depth in MX1 15 GP winners in that class right now. I like it when GP riders go to the USA and do well because it proves just how fast the World Championship is to Americans.
mccread, you are simply making stuff up in your mind and treating it as fact.

Most US fans give the GP riders plenty of respect. They are fine riders, and they become even better as their careers progress over here. The GPs definitely produce quality riders, and the best of the best of them tend to migrate across the pond to the AMA series. They usually take a little bit to adjust to the pace and style of the AMA races, and then improve and compete very well.

Of course 95% of the riders stay in the GPs. Only the top guys get offered rides here. The top 5% of the GP riders, however, are good enough to come over and they are now contributing to the speed of the AMA series overall.
Huckster
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5/13/2011 9:30am
APLMAN99 wrote:
mccread, you are simply making stuff up in your mind and treating it as fact. Most US fans give the GP riders plenty of respect. They...
mccread, you are simply making stuff up in your mind and treating it as fact.

Most US fans give the GP riders plenty of respect. They are fine riders, and they become even better as their careers progress over here. The GPs definitely produce quality riders, and the best of the best of them tend to migrate across the pond to the AMA series. They usually take a little bit to adjust to the pace and style of the AMA races, and then improve and compete very well.

Of course 95% of the riders stay in the GPs. Only the top guys get offered rides here. The top 5% of the GP riders, however, are good enough to come over and they are now contributing to the speed of the AMA series overall.
dont even try to explain with any form of rationalization to him. He has boarder line psychosis....It seems like one of those deals where if you keep saying it over and over and over again it somehow becomes reality...

If you have the facts, pound the facts.....if you dont, pond the table...... His table has gapping holes in it.....
jtomasik
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5/13/2011 9:34am
mccread wrote:
That's a pretty stupid statement... how am I arrogant... I have no dog in this fight... non of the riders I talk about are from my...
That's a pretty stupid statement... how am I arrogant... I have no dog in this fight... non of the riders I talk about are from my nation. I never said that RV, Dungey, Stewart couldn't win a GP series... never... I just said no one knows how they would do or if they are better or not... none of them have raced a GP or a GP series so no one can say who would win what.

I also said the level of the two series is the same they are just different.. really different in some aspects... so just because RV wins his national championship doesn't mean he will automatically win a World title in his first year in GPs ( I never said he couldn't just that he would find it as hard as a US series or possibly harder with all the new variables)... how is that arrogant?!

The World Championship isn't my series either... it's a world championship, there is one round in the UK and one in the US so it isn't favoured to either country.

I was also referrring to smith201 not you.
Mccread, you're a work of art.
Hammer
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5/13/2011 9:40am
Yes, we need a star in the gp's!

Yes, we need the GP's on Speedchannel, right after Formula 1 on Sunday mornings.

And last but not least, Yes mccread is a professional fisherman! But he should go to law school so he can get paid to make pointless statements! (sorry FTE)

enuf sed! Hammer
jamma10
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5/13/2011 9:41am
DNA Shred Stix Star Yamaha's Gareth Swaneople was not in the top 5% of GP riders and neither was Steven Clarke who rode for Suzuki City until last year. Clarke had never ridden a GP but finished 14th overall in 2009 in the Lites class.. He's currently lying 10th in the British Nationals after four rounds.
FreshTopEnd
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5/13/2011 10:15am
mccread wrote:
Again, we have been through this... that is to do with the media coverage and the American's insulated mindset. The reason they go is because they...
Again, we have been through this... that is to do with the media coverage and the American's insulated mindset.

The reason they go is because they grow up watching the US series and see it in all their magazines... whereas in America they give the GPs no coverage so none of them know anything about it and spin the lie that the GPs aren't as good as the AMA nationals... therefore they aren't inspired to race it.. you are inspired by what you see.

Also Americans on the whole struggle to live and race outside their own country.. that goes for most motorsports. So they are less inclined to race a series that will involve racing in different foreign countries, when it is easier to race in their own country. That is the problem not the fact that the AMA series has better riders or the GPs have a lack of competition lol


America has supercross as well... but it is a blatant lie to say all the best go to America.. look at the line up of talent in MX1 atm GPs are very healthy in terms of rider quality... just as good as the AMA... and the fact the odd GP rider goes there and takes a factory ride of an American and runs at the front.. in the Americans's backyard proves how fast the GPs are too.
So, let me get this straight. Not only is the US media fault that Americans aren't interested in the GPs (so you say), but it's American media's fault that riders in the GPs come to the US because they sell the series so well?

That sounds like the GP oriented media sucks and isn't doing its job.

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