Lungbutter Wolve debate

Titan1 wrote:

Coyotes don't have the same allure as wolves do.  Nobody cares about them.  Wolves are a control issue...they-like the sage grouse-are nothing but a pawn in...

Coyotes don't have the same allure as wolves do.  Nobody cares about them. 

Wolves are a control issue...they-like the sage grouse-are nothing but a pawn in the long game the radical environmentalists and liberal politicians are playing, as they gradually turn public land into a museum (look but don't touch), and to force rural populations into urban areas...as long as wolves are on the endangered species list, their habitat is much more easily restricted...so its easier for the greenies to ban snowmobiling, grazing, hunting, OHV'ing, logging, mining etc...thus making it far more difficult for rural communities to survive...this is why the goal posts keep moving as to target numbers...this is why every effort to get them off the endangered species list is fought tooth and nail...

plowboy wrote:

Hmmm.  I'm still thinking about how I feel about this whole deal. On the one hand, it's a money thing for the folks that raise livestock...

Hmmm.  I'm still thinking about how I feel about this whole deal.

On the one hand, it's a money thing for the folks that raise livestock for a living.  I get it completely.  I've been that guy.  Never had wolves, bears, or wild cats but coyotes, bobcats, hawks, coons, and snakes.  They damn sure effect the bank or freezer.

But, I always considered those losses the same as a farmer that suffers from drought or blight.  It's just all part of it.  

Balance...they are part of it, same as me.  The trouble comes in when we start using our big brains and fuck shit up.

Age and experience have shown me that every single thing on this planet has a niche/purpose.  We destroy things at our peril.

I reckon everyone that is concerned about wolf predation has a boom stick to protect themselves and animals.

LungButter wrote:

It's a money thing for the folks pushing for the re-introduction too. Seen it happen with both Wolves and Grizzly here in Idaho.  They will set...

It's a money thing for the folks pushing for the re-introduction too.

Seen it happen with both Wolves and Grizzly here in Idaho.  They will set a "bare minimum number" that needs to be surpassed before the wolf/grizz can be considered "recovered" and be managed by the State like other animals.

That number will be reached at some point and the State will try to take over management, a lot of times opening hunting seasons, to keep populations at the agreed upon level.

The wolf/grizz lovers have organizations full of lawyers just ready to pounce and sue to get their way (i.e. numbers changed) to keep the state management from happening.  

They will inevitably get the trial heard by a liberal judge that will sympathize with them no matter what facts are presented.

They win the trial and the tax payers are on the hook for paying the attorneys fees.

There are literally organizations out there that this is their business model. 

So, instead of counting it as a win that the wolf/grizz have come back to an acceptable number, they keep throwing an emotional fit over and over again to line their pocket books. 

A re-working of the equal access to justice act would do wonders to make our country a better place.

Titan1 wrote:

X1000 on the need to reform the Equal Access to Justice Act.  (And the Wilderness Act...and the Antiquities Act...all three have been absolutely perverted by the...

X1000 on the need to reform the Equal Access to Justice Act.  (And the Wilderness Act...and the Antiquities Act...all three have been absolutely perverted by the radical environmentalists...and the Endangered Species Act needs some updating as well as it to has become a tool to progress an agenda rather than to protect animals).

LoudLove wrote:

Wolves, bears, coyotes. Here are the real killers. The numbers are astronomical https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

Jeremy A.K. wrote:

Yotes are extremely damaging to wildlife and probably 10x smarter then any wolf which allows their numbers to not only maintain but even grow even in...

Yotes are extremely damaging to wildlife and probably 10x smarter then any wolf which allows their numbers to not only maintain but even grow even in highly pressured areas.

LoudLove wrote:

Article was about domestic cats obliterating bird and small mammal populations. The numbers are incredible and make wolves look like an afterthought. An estimated 14% of...

Article was about domestic cats obliterating bird and small mammal populations. The numbers are incredible and make wolves look like an afterthought. An estimated 14% of creatures that have gone extinct since 1900 have been attributed to cats, most of which exist in the wild. We’re talking well north of 1B birds annually. Crazy. 

LoudLove wrote:

Wolves, bears, coyotes. Here are the real killers. The numbers are astronomical https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

Jeremy A.K. wrote:

Yotes are extremely damaging to wildlife and probably 10x smarter then any wolf which allows their numbers to not only maintain but even grow even in...

Yotes are extremely damaging to wildlife and probably 10x smarter then any wolf which allows their numbers to not only maintain but even grow even in highly pressured areas.

LoudLove wrote:

Article was about domestic cats obliterating bird and small mammal populations. The numbers are incredible and make wolves look like an afterthought. An estimated 14% of...

Article was about domestic cats obliterating bird and small mammal populations. The numbers are incredible and make wolves look like an afterthought. An estimated 14% of creatures that have gone extinct since 1900 have been attributed to cats, most of which exist in the wild. We’re talking well north of 1B birds annually. Crazy. 

ARM670 wrote:

I was always taught, when hunting rabbits and pheasants, to shoot every wild cat I see. Cats kill for sport not for need. They will kill...

I was always taught, when hunting rabbits and pheasants, to shoot every wild cat I see. Cats kill for sport not for need. They will kill a nest of baby bunnies and not eat anything. First time I took my son out rabbit hunting, when we got home my wife asked our son how we did. He said dad got 2 rabbits and we both shot some cats. My wife about flipped. LOL City girls.

avidchimp wrote:

The coyotes take care of that problem around here. I have only seen one stray cat around my house in two years. 

avidchimp wrote:

The coyotes take care of that problem around here. I have only seen one stray cat around my house in two years. 

LungButter wrote:

It's not just stray cats doing the damage though.

plowboy wrote:

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits...

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits, skunks, possums, mice.  The next year or two you don't see so many hawks...because they ate up all the food.

Ever seen what a bunch of deer can do to a field or garden?  

When the wolves eat the deer to the point where they can't sustain their own numbers ...they will self regulate.  I reckon if they switch from deer to cattle etc in search for food...the 30/30 will help them "regulate".

If folks are worried about getting eaten by wolves, bears, cougars...then don't fucking go out there.

I wouldn't walk around in south Chicago or east St. Louis but I wouldn't call in a nuke strike either.

We are just humans...not gods.  If aliens landed and started exterminating us 'cause they they can...would you feel the same?

plowboy wrote:

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits...

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits, skunks, possums, mice.  The next year or two you don't see so many hawks...because they ate up all the food.

Ever seen what a bunch of deer can do to a field or garden?  

When the wolves eat the deer to the point where they can't sustain their own numbers ...they will self regulate.  I reckon if they switch from deer to cattle etc in search for food...the 30/30 will help them "regulate".

If folks are worried about getting eaten by wolves, bears, cougars...then don't fucking go out there.

I wouldn't walk around in south Chicago or east St. Louis but I wouldn't call in a nuke strike either.

We are just humans...not gods.  If aliens landed and started exterminating us 'cause they they can...would you feel the same?

LungButter wrote:

My last post was pointing out that house cats do damage too, not just strays.  I ain't got much left to say about the wolf thing...

My last post was pointing out that house cats do damage too, not just strays. 

I ain't got much left to say about the wolf thing that I haven't already said.  None of us are gonna change each others minds.

Just know that if you voted to have wolves re-introduced because you are so concerned about "complete ecosystems" but you own a house cat with claws.....well, you're one of the biggest hypocrites walking this earth.

Maybe folks should get together and vote to exterminate all house cats if we are so concerned about complete ecosystems?

avidchimp wrote:

The coyotes take care of that problem around here. I have only seen one stray cat around my house in two years. 

LungButter wrote:

It's not just stray cats doing the damage though.

plowboy wrote:

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits...

I've been a hayseed country fuck most of my life.  This is what I've learned...when you see a lot of hawks...that means there's lots of rabbits, skunks, possums, mice.  The next year or two you don't see so many hawks...because they ate up all the food.

Ever seen what a bunch of deer can do to a field or garden?  

When the wolves eat the deer to the point where they can't sustain their own numbers ...they will self regulate.  I reckon if they switch from deer to cattle etc in search for food...the 30/30 will help them "regulate".

If folks are worried about getting eaten by wolves, bears, cougars...then don't fucking go out there.

I wouldn't walk around in south Chicago or east St. Louis but I wouldn't call in a nuke strike either.

We are just humans...not gods.  If aliens landed and started exterminating us 'cause they they can...would you feel the same?

Sandberm656 wrote:

They want to re-introduce grizzly bears to the north Cascade mountains in Washington. They've had public meetings and the sentiment is overwhelmingly against doing this...yet, the...

They want to re-introduce grizzly bears to the north Cascade mountains in Washington. They've had public meetings and the sentiment is overwhelmingly against doing this...yet, the people who do not live there and our Democrat governor support it.

Sandberm656 wrote:

They want to re-introduce grizzly bears to the north Cascade mountains in Washington. They've had public meetings and the sentiment is overwhelmingly against doing this...yet, the...

They want to re-introduce grizzly bears to the north Cascade mountains in Washington. They've had public meetings and the sentiment is overwhelmingly against doing this...yet, the people who do not live there and our Democrat governor support it.

Titan1 wrote:

When it comes to public land, I firmly believe the people who live closest to it (and thus, whose lives are the most significantly impacted by...

When it comes to public land, I firmly believe the people who live closest to it (and thus, whose lives are the most significantly impacted by how it’s managed) should absolutely have the most say in how it’s managed, not ALL the say but people who don’t live close it I shouldn’t be able to force something down their throats against their will.