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Braaaphole
5/17/2017 10:30am
5/17/2017 10:30am
I'm starting to do some homework on 85's. My kid will likely be moving up from the 65 at the end of the year, dang kids grow too fast.
I'm trying to figure out which 85's are the better ones and which ones to avoid. He's a Kawasaki fan so he obviously likes the KX. I know it's a solid bike and proven and had some significant updates in '14. It's still down on power compared to the KTM and there's no rebound adjustment on the forks.
KTM/Husky, I go back and fourth. Great looking bikes, well equipped. Great brakes, hydro clutch. Not as reliable as I'd like and everyone I've talked with that came up on KTM 50 and 65 can't wait to get away from them. The bikes just nickle and dime you to death. Also not a fan of the air forks and no rear linkage.
I tried out a KTM 125 back in the early 2000's and hated the way it turned because of the rear not having linkage.
Yamaha, solid bike but hasn't been updated in a long time if I'm not mistaken.
Suzuki, blast from the past. Used to be a fast bike, but relitively unchanged for a very long time now. It's like buying a brand new vintage bike.
Honda, I'm not touching that 150F. I'm a long time Honda rider, I don't want any part of that 150.
Any mini dads have any input or suggestions?
I'm trying to figure out which 85's are the better ones and which ones to avoid. He's a Kawasaki fan so he obviously likes the KX. I know it's a solid bike and proven and had some significant updates in '14. It's still down on power compared to the KTM and there's no rebound adjustment on the forks.
KTM/Husky, I go back and fourth. Great looking bikes, well equipped. Great brakes, hydro clutch. Not as reliable as I'd like and everyone I've talked with that came up on KTM 50 and 65 can't wait to get away from them. The bikes just nickle and dime you to death. Also not a fan of the air forks and no rear linkage.
I tried out a KTM 125 back in the early 2000's and hated the way it turned because of the rear not having linkage.
Yamaha, solid bike but hasn't been updated in a long time if I'm not mistaken.
Suzuki, blast from the past. Used to be a fast bike, but relitively unchanged for a very long time now. It's like buying a brand new vintage bike.
Honda, I'm not touching that 150F. I'm a long time Honda rider, I don't want any part of that 150.
Any mini dads have any input or suggestions?
With that being said, id still go with the kawi out of sheer trust i have in the brand. Yamaha hasnt touched their 2 strokes much at all. Kawi and ktm have. They continue to improve them. Ive got no doubt the new kawis are much better now than the yz. Id suggest a ktm but from all the problems people have with the brand i cant.
Older boy was on Yamaha his whole 85 time after he rode all brands except CR whci wasn't an option. Great bikes, easy to work on, well made & cheap OEM parts. Same bike since 2003 except plastics in 2015. No power valve is only downside but pretty easy to "fix" especially with a faster aggressive rider. Nothing but good things to say about Yamaha and if they update the YZ we may go back.
Younger boy - we tried a newer KX as he is smaller and I figured it would fit him better than the KTM.(he also rode a leftover YZ for a bit) The KX is a POS in my opinion - Same bike with new plastics in 2014. No removable sub frame, tough to work on, poorly made & he never could gel with the handling. We even put YZ internals in the forks as they are more advanced than the "new" KX.
His first ride on the KTM sealed the deal. He has loved that bike from the first moment. Currently have 2015 KTM & 2015 Husky both SXS spec with suspension done otherwise bone stock. He loves them both even being smaller. I love to work on them well designed lot's of room. Can do a top end in no time and bottom ends are simple also. I know a ton of people running them and don't see any real reliability issues other than rear brakes.
Both boys rode KTM 65's prior to moving up. I would go YZ before KX if we had to move off KTM/Husky............
I think you pretty well nailed it. We started on Yamahas but he liked the KX's better. I wanted him to stay on Yamahas cause I wasnt a KX fan. But the KX's turned out great for us. Inexpensive, breeze to work on, and he was fast in them. They have their issues like Nikasil flaking, and being meticulous with the airbox. But they all have cons. Didnt want the KTM's for the reasons you mentioned along w/150 not being an option nor Suzuki, really. The best advice is to let him ride as many options as he can, dont give him any pre-conceived information, and he will tell you which one is the best. Good luck!
Y/S/K examples:
They're all open chamber forks. All chassis and engine designs are from the early 1990's or further back (you'll find that many parts from the old bikes will interchange with the new ones).
YZ is using a steel swingarm with adjusters from the late 80's. No powervalve (1981 called and wants it's "technology" back).
RM has only a partially removable subframe. Powervalve design dates back to the mid 80's. Carb is a round-slide.
KX uses a powervalve design also from the mid 80's and it wasn't considered all that great back then. Muffler and pipe is on the left side of the bike, just like the 1987 model it's based on.
One upside to the dated technology is the ability to find parts cheaply and easily. For example, the transmission from a mid 90's RM80 fits right into the newest RM85. The only difference is the shift drum with the old ones rotating directly on the case (wtf?!) and the newer ones having a bearing for it to rotate on. Same case, btw. RM and YZ wheels interchange, just use the correct spacers. YZ and KX forks are very similar with the preferred YZ internals able to be swapped in the KX with not too much work.
When my son was racing 85's we tried them all except the KTM due to cost. Ended up on the RM. He liked the feel of the handling the best and felt the low-mid power was stronger. At one time we had a very trick one for him to compete on at Mammoth; that trip resulted in a broken scapula...
Unless your kid is fast enough to be a top LL prospect it won't matter which bike they're on. Just have fun.
The Shop
www.karlzracing.com
The RM85 and YZ85 are stone age bikes and it baffles me people still buy these things new. 2018 models are just around the corner though and there have been rumblings Suzuki will put out a new 85.
The KTM/Husky would be the obvious choice, or the TM if you can get your hands on one.
Unless you somehow can get the YZ or RM really, really cheap(or for free) i would advice people to go with the KTM/Husqvarna. Who knows, the all new KTM 2018 might be even better than the 2013-2017 and then there isn't really any comparison. Even the latest KX is in stock trim far off the SX/TC.
My first choice would be the TM85 . i like how strong and smooth the power curve is
Then the KTM85, but that could change whit the 18 model.
A cheape rm/yz could also be a choice.
The KX85 felt to soft and peaky power for me
My kids isn't a national caliber rider, so it's honestly not that important. However, he has made it a goal for himself to qualify for LL. When that time comes, I want him on the best bike for him.
I've always had a thing for TM bikes, they just look so trick. My concern though is the price and getting parts. Plus a lack of setup knowledge on them. For these reasons, it's really not even an option for us.
Sounds like I need to do more homework on the KTM/Husky.
Setting them up isn't much other than setting sag. The other brands need the setting up...
My boy will be on one when he's off his 65.
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