Letter To The Editor

whyZ
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Phoenix, AZ US
Edited Date/Time 11/30/2012 8:52am
This was in our local paper the other day, thought it was an interesting perspective. A few years after owning my own business, sorta how I was feeling too.


“There was a time not long ago when one could get a good education, work hard, achieve success and some degree of wealth – the so called American Dream. He could retire after many years of labor to pursue a few years of pleasure. He could bequeath what remained of his estate to his heirs. This is no longer true.

Today he is demonized by his government for attaining that success. He is further punished by increased taxation, with the limp excuse that he doesn’t pay his fair share, even though he is in the group that pays 80% of the taxes in his country.

Now that going over the so called cliff is imminent, he is asked to give even more. This browbeaten person now sits in his boat fishing, while the government literally keeps poking holes in his boat, until the boat sinks. So much for the American Dream.”
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JW381
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Harrisburg, OR US
11/28/2012 1:58pm
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
flarider
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Daytona Beach, FL US
11/28/2012 2:03pm
whyZ wrote:
This was in our local paper the other day, thought it was an interesting perspective. A few years after owning my own business, sorta how I...
This was in our local paper the other day, thought it was an interesting perspective. A few years after owning my own business, sorta how I was feeling too.


“There was a time not long ago when one could get a good education, work hard, achieve success and some degree of wealth – the so called American Dream. He could retire after many years of labor to pursue a few years of pleasure. He could bequeath what remained of his estate to his heirs. This is no longer true.

Today he is demonized by his government for attaining that success. He is further punished by increased taxation, with the limp excuse that he doesn’t pay his fair share, even though he is in the group that pays 80% of the taxes in his country.

Now that going over the so called cliff is imminent, he is asked to give even more. This browbeaten person now sits in his boat fishing, while the government literally keeps poking holes in his boat, until the boat sinks. So much for the American Dream.”
What a load of shit
thehuck.0
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11/28/2012 2:04pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You must have missed why the United States was founded, and what made it great for so many years.
Racer92
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11/28/2012 2:07pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
You didnt post that.

The Shop

JW381
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11/28/2012 2:09pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
Racer92 wrote:
You didnt post that.
I did. Care to respond?
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:09pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
thehuck.0 wrote:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You must have missed why the United States was founded, and what made it great for so many years.
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
thehuck.0
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11/28/2012 2:11pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
thehuck.0 wrote:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You must have missed why the United States was founded, and what made it great for so many years.
JW381 wrote:
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're...
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
vet323
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Lead, SD US
11/28/2012 2:13pm
JW381 wrote:
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to...
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.
Racer92 wrote:
You didnt post that.
JW381 wrote:
I did. Care to respond?
Fine.

His success only happened because of the rest of us and had nothing to do with his own initiative.

Steve Jobs had the same set of rules you did, JW -was it just random chance that he was so much more successful than you?

BTW-I'm guessing he was more successful, I don't know you.
Racer92
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11/28/2012 2:17pm
JW381 wrote:
I did. Care to respond?
No you didnt. The person who made your keyboard, your computer and the internet connection made that post.

Oh yeah, and Guyb too. He invented Motodrive and started civilization.
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:20pm
Racer92 wrote:
You didnt post that.
JW381 wrote:
I did. Care to respond?
vet323 wrote:
Fine. His success only happened because of the rest of us and had nothing to do with his own initiative. Steve Jobs had the same set...
Fine.

His success only happened because of the rest of us and had nothing to do with his own initiative.

Steve Jobs had the same set of rules you did, JW -was it just random chance that he was so much more successful than you?

BTW-I'm guessing he was more successful, I don't know you.
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:22pm
thehuck.0 wrote:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You must have missed why the United States was founded, and what made it great for so many years.
JW381 wrote:
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're...
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
Taxes on the wealthy are still relatively small compared to earlier centuries in this country. What you're describing sounds much more like the middle class, and I don't recall the letter writer stating that the middle class was demonized and over taxed?
vet323
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11/28/2012 2:25pm
JW381 wrote:
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in...
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
Ohhhh- don't forget! Probably 60% of every dollar is wasted!
thehuck.0
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11/28/2012 2:26pm
JW381 wrote:
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're...
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
JW381 wrote:
Taxes on the wealthy are still relatively small compared to earlier centuries in this country. What you're describing sounds much more like the middle class, and...
Taxes on the wealthy are still relatively small compared to earlier centuries in this country. What you're describing sounds much more like the middle class, and I don't recall the letter writer stating that the middle class was demonized and over taxed?
Nobody said anything about what class he was.

You said "but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance)" and "Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country."

So you basically were writing off his success to 'chance' and that he owes his success to his country.
There are plenty in the country that aren't successful. Do they owe their lack of success to their country too?
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:27pm
JW381 wrote:
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in...
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
vet323 wrote:
Ohhhh- don't forget! Probably 60% of every dollar is wasted!
Possibly, but that's not necessarily the argument. Would a privatized infrastructure, defense, education, social services, and welfare not waste dollars? Or would they even exist at all if they were privatized?
thehuck.0
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11/28/2012 2:28pm
JW381 wrote:
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in...
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
wow! Are you 13 or 14 years old?
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:30pm
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
JW381 wrote:
Taxes on the wealthy are still relatively small compared to earlier centuries in this country. What you're describing sounds much more like the middle class, and...
Taxes on the wealthy are still relatively small compared to earlier centuries in this country. What you're describing sounds much more like the middle class, and I don't recall the letter writer stating that the middle class was demonized and over taxed?
thehuck.0 wrote:
Nobody said anything about what class he was. You said "but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in...
Nobody said anything about what class he was.

You said "but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance)" and "Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country."

So you basically were writing off his success to 'chance' and that he owes his success to his country.
There are plenty in the country that aren't successful. Do they owe their lack of success to their country too?
Fine, let me re-phrase then (I fully understand how you could have taken my statement the wrong way).

Like I re-stated earlier; this theoretical man is born in the U.S. (that is random chance), therefore giving him a specific set of opportunities the majority of the world probably does not enjoy. So, by his own initiative, made possible by the free democracy he was born into, he procures wealth and other successes. It's a combo of both, and my intention wasn't to write off hard working people's successes, but rather to make a point of the circumstances that allowed that success in the first place.
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2012 2:31pm
thehuck.0 wrote:
wow! Are you 13 or 14 years old?
11 1/2. Just learned fractions!
vet323
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11/28/2012 2:44pm
JW381 wrote:
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in...
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
vet323 wrote:
Ohhhh- don't forget! Probably 60% of every dollar is wasted!
JW381 wrote:
Possibly, but that's not necessarily the argument. Would a privatized infrastructure, defense, education, social services, and welfare not waste dollars? Or would they even exist at...
Possibly, but that's not necessarily the argument. Would a privatized infrastructure, defense, education, social services, and welfare not waste dollars? Or would they even exist at all if they were privatized?
I'm not making that argument.

I believe (based on my own experience as a vendor with US gov. procurement practices ) that 60% is wasted. US federal tax revenue has been going up pretty steadily, it's not a revenue problem and, since the top 10% of earners account for 80% of income tax revenue, it's not a fairness problem, either.

And your earlier point about the rich paying a higher tax burden in earlier decades is not factual.
JW381
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11/28/2012 2:47pm
vet323 wrote:
I'm not making that argument. I believe (based on my own experience as a vendor with US gov. procurement practices ) that 60% is wasted. US...
I'm not making that argument.

I believe (based on my own experience as a vendor with US gov. procurement practices ) that 60% is wasted. US federal tax revenue has been going up pretty steadily, it's not a revenue problem and, since the top 10% of earners account for 80% of income tax revenue, it's not a fairness problem, either.

And your earlier point about the rich paying a higher tax burden in earlier decades is not factual.
Your sources are more than enough then, I won't argue that portions of tax dollars within the tax system are wasted.

And from my understanding, they are. Provide me with a source saying otherwise, and I'll try to find one to back up my point.
FastEddy
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., FL US
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11/28/2012 2:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2012 2:58pm
JW381 wrote:
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in...
I didn't say his success was only random chance and that it had nothing to do with his own initiative. I said him being born in a free democracy is random chance, and that without that random chance, he would not have the opportunities to earn his wealth and success. Have Steve Jobs born (same exact man) in a different region, and he is more than likely not a success. So, in that regard, Steve Jobs and all other successful people owe a great deal to their country.

Here's another big problem I have with the line of thinking represented by the letter writer: it's not as if every dollar taxed is put directly into the pockets of some athiest, minority, single mother who is addicted to drugs. A large percentage of taxes go to infrastructure, defense, education, government employees and services, and some welfare.
thehuck.0 wrote:
wow! Are you 13 or 14 years old?
Mr Watson definitely doesn't know where his personal income tax goes to....that's for sure. Grinning
Perhaps he needs to educate himself internally by digging his nose into a few government agencies.
I'm certain he would get the idea then.


And as for being born in a "FREE DEMOCRACY" that is what our ancestors fought for so their generations to come could live in a decent free democratic society,not a 2 party dictatorship that taxes it's citizens wages. They did not believe in taxation of peoples wages. They only approved of it during a short time when war was being fought on this soil. We owe everything to our ancestors & their beliefs that they fought & died for.Therefore most current Americans supporting these current systems are committing treachery against our ancestors that made this country possible and brought forth & created The American Dream.
JW381
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11/28/2012 3:00pm
FastEddy wrote:
Mr Watson definitely doesn't know where his personal income tax goes to....that's for sure. :lol: Perhaps he needs to educate himself internally by digging his nose...
Mr Watson definitely doesn't know where his personal income tax goes to....that's for sure. Grinning
Perhaps he needs to educate himself internally by digging his nose into a few government agencies.
I'm certain he would get the idea then.


And as for being born in a "FREE DEMOCRACY" that is what our ancestors fought for so their generations to come could live in a decent free democratic society,not a 2 party dictatorship that taxes it's citizens wages. They did not believe in taxation of peoples wages. They only approved of it during a short time when war was being fought on this soil. We owe everything to our ancestors & their beliefs that they fought & died for.Therefore most current Americans supporting these current systems are committing treachery against our ancestors that made this country possible and brought forth & created The American Dream.
I know it sounds counter intuitive based on what I've already said, but I agree with pretty much everything you just said. I just also believe in what I've already posted, and I don't believe (due to the fact that we still haven't really discussed specifics) that they are in direct conflict with each other.

How did you know my last name, btw? o.O
FastEddy
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11/28/2012 3:07pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2012 3:57pm
JW381 wrote:
I know it sounds counter intuitive based on what I've already said, but I agree with pretty much everything you just said. I just also believe...
I know it sounds counter intuitive based on what I've already said, but I agree with pretty much everything you just said. I just also believe in what I've already posted, and I don't believe (due to the fact that we still haven't really discussed specifics) that they are in direct conflict with each other.

How did you know my last name, btw? o.O
"How did you know my last name, btw? o.O"

The same way I know where your income taxes go to.
Educating & investigating. Wink
borg
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11/28/2012 4:29pm
whyZ wrote:
This was in our local paper the other day, thought it was an interesting perspective. A few years after owning my own business, sorta how I...
This was in our local paper the other day, thought it was an interesting perspective. A few years after owning my own business, sorta how I was feeling too.


“There was a time not long ago when one could get a good education, work hard, achieve success and some degree of wealth – the so called American Dream. He could retire after many years of labor to pursue a few years of pleasure. He could bequeath what remained of his estate to his heirs. This is no longer true.

Today he is demonized by his government for attaining that success. He is further punished by increased taxation, with the limp excuse that he doesn’t pay his fair share, even though he is in the group that pays 80% of the taxes in his country.

Now that going over the so called cliff is imminent, he is asked to give even more. This browbeaten person now sits in his boat fishing, while the government literally keeps poking holes in his boat, until the boat sinks. So much for the American Dream.”
flarider wrote:
What a load of shit
Sorry, don't agree with this. Fine, he worked hard to get his success, but his success was only made possible because he just so happened to be living in a free democracy(random chance). He could work even harder in some third world country or dictatorship, and not enjoy a single luxury or pleasure in his life. Therefore, he is always somewhat indebted to (t)his country. I don't think rich people are demonized in this country, either, just envied and looked down upon for their excessive greed. My $.02.

I guess you must have just missed this load of shit.
FastEddy
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11/28/2012 7:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2012 7:23pm
Yep.....which gives them free reign to spend money on stupid shit we do not need.
They contract side work /government contracts and make profits that way also. They just keep letting it pile up and continue to do stupid shit while they pocket/skim on they side.It's a racket.

If everyone stopped paying fed income tax this year.....Not one thing would change that we would notice as far structure or the military.
Other then the money being spent in local economies and helping boost local economies in a sense.
APLMAN99
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11/28/2012 7:26pm
thehuck.0 wrote:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You must have missed why the United States was founded, and what made it great for so many years.
JW381 wrote:
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're...
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
For wealthy white males.....

Those 5/9ths of a person need not apply...
11/28/2012 10:04pm
The rosy vision of old America is total horsehit.
Maybe for the certain sliver of society that benefitted from the post-WW II boom it was like that. For the white suburban middle class riding the post-war wave that could afford those suburban houses, Chevys and home appliances.
In recent decades there was also huge amounts of injustice, prejudice, and outright exploitation in America.

How much would we have enjoyed six 12-hour shifts a week in a steel mill where most guys died early and they shot you down if you went on strike? That was the industrial revolution for most that took part in it. Just one example of how shitty it used to be.

It's always been a bitch to make your way in this country and always will be. Do people expect the government to make it easy for them?
Racer92
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11/29/2012 4:23am
The Homestead Steel strike was after WW2 ? I think you got your timeline a little skewed.
thehuck.0
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11/29/2012 4:45am
JW381 wrote:
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're...
Why was the U.S. founded, and what made it so great for so many years? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just asking what it is you're making a point of.
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
For wealthy white males.....

Those 5/9ths of a person need not apply...
"What a load of shit"
11/29/2012 5:07am
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
For wealthy white males.....

Those 5/9ths of a person need not apply...
thehuck.0 wrote:
"What a load of shit"
APLMAN99
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11/29/2012 8:57am
thehuck.0 wrote:
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride...
The Dream of making a better life for yourself. The dream of your kids living better than you, through your hard work. The thought of pride from working hard all day, and keeping what you have at the end of the day, without fear of over taxation.
APLMAN99 wrote:
For wealthy white males.....

Those 5/9ths of a person need not apply...
thehuck.0 wrote:
"What a load of shit"
I agree, that silly notion that our nation was formed of and for equality, justice, and freedom for all is a complete load of shit.

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