Infraction vs misdemeanor question

sumdood
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sumdood
Edited Date/Time 1/9/2019 12:34pm
Some kids (I won't mention names, but safe to say we know all of them) Grinning are out driving around looking for places to go skateboarding. At some point during the day they wind up in a large empty parking lot. One of the kids spins a doughnut in his truck, and gets seen by a police officer. So the kid that was driving tells the officer that he was being stupid, the parking lot was empty, so he decided to spin a doughnut and he admits that that was a dumb move. They have a pleasant exchange, there were no drugs or alcohol involved, it was during the day in a large empty parking lot, and that he was going to write the ticket as an infraction, which he did. So the kid signs the ticket (with the infraction box checked) the officer smiles and tells them to have a nice day and off they go. Fast forward 1 month. The kid gets a notice in the mail that there was a "mistake" on his ticket, and it has been switched from an infraction to a misdemeanor. So he has a ticket he signed with the infraction box checked, the officer said he wrote it up as an infraction, but now either the officer or someone else has switched it to a misdemeanor. Think he has a chance of getting it switched back to a misdemeanor ? Or... better yet tossed out because of the conflicting stories ? If he decides to "Fight it" in court does the officer have to be there to explain why he originally wrote it as a misdemeanor ? Asking for a friend Grinning
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agn5009
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agn5009 1/8/2019 7:44am
1/8/2019 7:44am
What state do you live in? In PA a police officer can’t fine someone for doing a doughnut in a private parking lot. Police can only enforce minor traffic violations on public roadways. Obviously major traffic violations such as DUI, homicide by motor vehicle etc are enforceable. But a kid being cited in a private parking lot sounds crazy to me. There’s a chance the officer cited the kid and later found out he can’t be cited so it got switched to something criminal such as criminal mischief or vandalism.
sumdood
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sumdood 1/8/2019 8:32am
1/8/2019 8:32am
agn5009 wrote:
What state do you live in? In PA a police officer can’t fine someone for doing a doughnut in a private parking lot. Police can only...
What state do you live in? In PA a police officer can’t fine someone for doing a doughnut in a private parking lot. Police can only enforce minor traffic violations on public roadways. Obviously major traffic violations such as DUI, homicide by motor vehicle etc are enforceable. But a kid being cited in a private parking lot sounds crazy to me. There’s a chance the officer cited the kid and later found out he can’t be cited so it got switched to something criminal such as criminal mischief or vandalism.
We're in Ca. so I'm sure they'll go for as much $$ as they can. I'm just wondering what the chances of getting it tossed or dropped back to an infraction are because of it changing after the fact. There's a substantial difference between the two dollarwise
GeorgiePorgie 1/8/2019 8:50am
1/8/2019 8:50am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 9:03am
Lawyer. Worth the $300 retainer for traffic court. They’ll throw it out. Although I don’t know how California operates. “Mistake” or nothing.....doesn’t matter he never signed for a misdemeanor. Go to trial Get the cop in their and cross examine on the stand. Bet cop won’t show If what you’re saying is true about the nice infraction convo him and the boy had.

Had a similar thing in Ohio. We were in an empty parking lot riding wheelies. Stunt riding streetbikes. Our point was we were doing it in a Safe place and not in roads. Tried giving me a wrecess operation. Couldn’t prove that it was reckless behavior given the total absence of my criminal history.

I was in the back of a state patrol car. The guy on the radio was talking to the Bmv “what should I ticket him with,” bmv comes back with “give him a reckless op”.long story short. Wore a suit. Got a haircut. Showed the court all the community service and what my degree in college was. Dog and pony show.....judge ruled cop Can’t do that....case dismissed. Didn’t even pay court costs. get a good lawyer. Preferably one that attends annual Christmas parties with the judges or is a past county elected official.


During the arraignment you can approach the bench and respectfully ask to “amend the charges to broken equipment and you would be more than happy to settle it up today” will be a fine plus costs but everyone wins. Court gets a buck. You get a non-moving violation that won’t jack your insurance up...(you can do this for every speeding ticket too....if you get a happy judge or magistrate they’ll settle it up right there. If you got 400 speeding tickets they’re gonna tell you pound salt)
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XXVoid MainXX
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XXVoid MainXX 1/8/2019 9:03am
1/8/2019 9:03am
I don't often ask for legal advice, but when I do I go to VitalMX. Smile
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GeorgiePorgie 1/8/2019 9:10am
1/8/2019 9:10am
Well the whole idea behind minor offenses is that the court and laws are all discretionary. Nobody murdered anyone. They just want the money. so play the game. Pay some money and negotiate with them.
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sumdood
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sumdood 1/8/2019 9:42am
1/8/2019 9:42am
XXVoid MainXX wrote:
I don't often ask for legal advice, but when I do I go to VitalMX. Smile
Laughing yeah I know....
agn5009
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agn5009 1/8/2019 9:43am
1/8/2019 9:43am
agn5009 wrote:
What state do you live in? In PA a police officer can’t fine someone for doing a doughnut in a private parking lot. Police can only...
What state do you live in? In PA a police officer can’t fine someone for doing a doughnut in a private parking lot. Police can only enforce minor traffic violations on public roadways. Obviously major traffic violations such as DUI, homicide by motor vehicle etc are enforceable. But a kid being cited in a private parking lot sounds crazy to me. There’s a chance the officer cited the kid and later found out he can’t be cited so it got switched to something criminal such as criminal mischief or vandalism.
sumdood wrote:
We're in Ca. so I'm sure they'll go for as much $$ as they can. I'm just wondering what the chances of getting it tossed or...
We're in Ca. so I'm sure they'll go for as much $$ as they can. I'm just wondering what the chances of getting it tossed or dropped back to an infraction are because of it changing after the fact. There's a substantial difference between the two dollarwise
When you go to court there’s a really good chance it gets dropped to an infraction. Here’s the best advice you can possibly get (and this is coming from a cop). Since it is a misdemeanor offense you’ll want to show up with an attorney. Even if it’s a public defender that’s fine. You should have been provided information on how to obtain a public defender since it’s a misdemeanor offense. Judges do not like when people show up for criminal level offenses without an attorney.

You can always call the police department and talk with the officer. Ask him why it was changed. Be friendly and professional (it goes a long way) if you don’t think judges, district attorneys and defense attorneys alll ask whether or not someone was cooperative you’re nuts. It’s usually the first thing they ask. I’ve been asked during trials by defense attorneys whether or not their client was cooperative. That tells you how it goes a long way with a jury as well.

I wish I could help you more but I simply don’t know the CA vehicle and crimes code. I know PA very well but states are so different on rules of criminal procedure and such. Start with calling the police officer and talking to him.
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agn5009
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agn5009 1/8/2019 9:59am
1/8/2019 9:59am
And just so you’re aware, this is a very difficult question to answer because of so many mitigating circumstances. For example, if this is a random private parking lot has the owner had issues with people tearing up the black top? Or doing other things such as drugs, parties, etc which caused him to contact police and request frequent patrols? If that is the case, I’m willing to bet they’re going with criminal mischief or trespassing or something similar. I just can’t imagine there’s any sort of “proving grounds” or burnout/doughnut law in the CA vehicle code. Leaving marks on the blacktop is where criminal mischief would come into play. Even to have a city code or something in place is kind of dumb since it’s a private parking lot. I’m just bantering to myself at this point lol.
jgmxdad251
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jgmxdad251 1/8/2019 10:12am
1/8/2019 10:12am
I’ll run it by my kid and get back to you in a bit.
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sumdood
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sumdood 1/8/2019 10:22am
1/8/2019 10:22am
agn5009 wrote:
And just so you’re aware, this is a very difficult question to answer because of so many mitigating circumstances. For example, if this is a random...
And just so you’re aware, this is a very difficult question to answer because of so many mitigating circumstances. For example, if this is a random private parking lot has the owner had issues with people tearing up the black top? Or doing other things such as drugs, parties, etc which caused him to contact police and request frequent patrols? If that is the case, I’m willing to bet they’re going with criminal mischief or trespassing or something similar. I just can’t imagine there’s any sort of “proving grounds” or burnout/doughnut law in the CA vehicle code. Leaving marks on the blacktop is where criminal mischief would come into play. Even to have a city code or something in place is kind of dumb since it’s a private parking lot. I’m just bantering to myself at this point lol.
"Exhibition of speed" is what the officer said. I got one for the same thing for wheelying when I was their age. I argued that I wasn't speeding, he said he could change it to wreckless driving if I preferred, I didn't
agn5009
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agn5009 1/8/2019 10:50am
1/8/2019 10:50am Edited Date/Time 1/8/2019 10:58am
agn5009 wrote:
And just so you’re aware, this is a very difficult question to answer because of so many mitigating circumstances. For example, if this is a random...
And just so you’re aware, this is a very difficult question to answer because of so many mitigating circumstances. For example, if this is a random private parking lot has the owner had issues with people tearing up the black top? Or doing other things such as drugs, parties, etc which caused him to contact police and request frequent patrols? If that is the case, I’m willing to bet they’re going with criminal mischief or trespassing or something similar. I just can’t imagine there’s any sort of “proving grounds” or burnout/doughnut law in the CA vehicle code. Leaving marks on the blacktop is where criminal mischief would come into play. Even to have a city code or something in place is kind of dumb since it’s a private parking lot. I’m just bantering to myself at this point lol.
sumdood wrote:
"Exhibition of speed" is what the officer said. I got one for the same thing for wheelying when I was their age. I argued that I...
"Exhibition of speed" is what the officer said. I got one for the same thing for wheelying when I was their age. I argued that I wasn't speeding, he said he could change it to wreckless driving if I preferred, I didn't
I certainly would understand if you were on the roadway but you weren’t. Reckless driving could be charged in a parking lot if you were endangering others. The key word being “others” ie not just yourself.

So exhibition of speed is the following:



What was the parking lot like? Was it a parking lot designated for a business? Or was it just some random parking lot that no one else was in? Also, the offense was likely elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed by the officer. For some reason California appears to up the offense of observed by the officer.
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sumdood 1/8/2019 2:01pm
1/8/2019 2:01pm
agn5009 wrote:
I certainly would understand if you were on the roadway but you weren’t. Reckless driving could be charged in a parking lot if you were endangering...
I certainly would understand if you were on the roadway but you weren’t. Reckless driving could be charged in a parking lot if you were endangering others. The key word being “others” ie not just yourself.

So exhibition of speed is the following:



What was the parking lot like? Was it a parking lot designated for a business? Or was it just some random parking lot that no one else was in? Also, the offense was likely elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed by the officer. For some reason California appears to up the offense of observed by the officer.
It was a business park that was closed for the weekend. You said it was elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed by the officer, but he's the one who not only told him he'd write it as an infraction, he marked the infraction box on the original ticket. From what I heard it was a pretty pleasant exchange as far as interacting with law enforcement goes, there was no alcohol, no drugs, they didn't run or act disrespectful, which is maybe why he wrote it as an infraction ? So either he changed his mind after the fact, or someone over his head changed it, regardless while they were at the scene he said he'd write it as an infraction, and he did. Then it was changed after the fact. He doesn't know what the fine is yet, he just got the notice in the mail that it was changed from an infraction to a misdemeanor, doesn't say by who or why.
agn5009
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agn5009 1/8/2019 3:27pm
1/8/2019 3:27pm
agn5009 wrote:
I certainly would understand if you were on the roadway but you weren’t. Reckless driving could be charged in a parking lot if you were endangering...
I certainly would understand if you were on the roadway but you weren’t. Reckless driving could be charged in a parking lot if you were endangering others. The key word being “others” ie not just yourself.

So exhibition of speed is the following:



What was the parking lot like? Was it a parking lot designated for a business? Or was it just some random parking lot that no one else was in? Also, the offense was likely elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed by the officer. For some reason California appears to up the offense of observed by the officer.
sumdood wrote:
It was a business park that was closed for the weekend. You said it was elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed...
It was a business park that was closed for the weekend. You said it was elevated from an infraction to a misdemeanor because it was observed by the officer, but he's the one who not only told him he'd write it as an infraction, he marked the infraction box on the original ticket. From what I heard it was a pretty pleasant exchange as far as interacting with law enforcement goes, there was no alcohol, no drugs, they didn't run or act disrespectful, which is maybe why he wrote it as an infraction ? So either he changed his mind after the fact, or someone over his head changed it, regardless while they were at the scene he said he'd write it as an infraction, and he did. Then it was changed after the fact. He doesn't know what the fine is yet, he just got the notice in the mail that it was changed from an infraction to a misdemeanor, doesn't say by who or why.
I see. Sounds kind of crazy to me. I’ve never heard that being done. Typically the only person who would amend the charges is the district attorney or assistant district attorney. The district attorney isn’t typically involved in driving infractions so I don’t know how they would have even known. Sounds like one of the brass may have made him change the grading on the offense. Have him call the officer and find out. That’s the only thing he can do prior to the court date.
jgmxdad251
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jgmxdad251 1/8/2019 8:01pm
1/8/2019 8:01pm
My son said it’s reckless driving and when the city attorney gets it they correct any mistakes that officer made. He said it happens a lot. Whats the violation #?
sumdood
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sumdood 1/8/2019 9:15pm
1/8/2019 9:15pm
jgmxdad251 wrote:
My son said it’s reckless driving and when the city attorney gets it they correct any mistakes that officer made. He said it happens a lot...
My son said it’s reckless driving and when the city attorney gets it they correct any mistakes that officer made. He said it happens a lot. Whats the violation #?
Don't know I'll find out tomorrow.
71Fish
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71Fish 1/9/2019 4:23am
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XXVoid MainXX wrote:
I don't often ask for legal advice, but when I do I go to VitalMX. Smile
This is my first stop for all legal, financial and relationship advice.
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markit
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markit 1/9/2019 4:23am
1/9/2019 4:23am
I dont see any legal way they could change it from the original charge.
agn5009
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agn5009 1/9/2019 5:50am
1/9/2019 5:50am
markit wrote:
I dont see any legal way they could change it from the original charge.
You can absolutely change it (in PA at least). You simply complete an amendment form and provide it to the magisterial district judge. Either the officer or the district attorney can do this. It’s 100% legal and it happens all the time.

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IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 1/9/2019 8:35am
1/9/2019 8:35am
markit wrote:
I dont see any legal way they could change it from the original charge.
I'm certainly not involved with the legal system but it seems that the details on the actual ticket itself doesn't seem to carry much weight. It's really just an acknowledgement of your interaction with the officer. They can't change WHAT happened, they can change everything else though. They marked that I was driving a dodge when I was driving a tundra. They couldn't change my speed after the fact although the officer can reduce the speed at the time the ticket was written.

Even had the officer marked misdemeanor on the ticket, he either would have signed it regardless, or been taken to jail and arraigned so there was proof the officer ticketed the kid.

This all is just my observation.
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APLMAN99 1/9/2019 12:08pm
1/9/2019 12:08pm
markit wrote:
I dont see any legal way they could change it from the original charge.
agn5009 wrote:
You can absolutely change it (in PA at least). You simply complete an amendment form and provide it to the magisterial district judge. Either the officer...
You can absolutely change it (in PA at least). You simply complete an amendment form and provide it to the magisterial district judge. Either the officer or the district attorney can do this. It’s 100% legal and it happens all the time.
That only applies if the case hasn't been settled yet, correct?

For example, if he'd have mailed in the payment for the ticket and checked the "guilty" box, the check been deposited, etc., wouldn't that have been considered to be "tried and convicted" (wrong terminology, I'm sure, but I think we get the point).


agn5009
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agn5009 1/9/2019 12:34pm
1/9/2019 12:34pm
markit wrote:
I dont see any legal way they could change it from the original charge.
agn5009 wrote:
You can absolutely change it (in PA at least). You simply complete an amendment form and provide it to the magisterial district judge. Either the officer...
You can absolutely change it (in PA at least). You simply complete an amendment form and provide it to the magisterial district judge. Either the officer or the district attorney can do this. It’s 100% legal and it happens all the time.
APLMAN99 wrote:
That only applies if the case hasn't been settled yet, correct? For example, if he'd have mailed in the payment for the ticket and checked the...
That only applies if the case hasn't been settled yet, correct?

For example, if he'd have mailed in the payment for the ticket and checked the "guilty" box, the check been deposited, etc., wouldn't that have been considered to be "tried and convicted" (wrong terminology, I'm sure, but I think we get the point).


Correct. It just baffles me that a district attorney would even look at an infraction to begin with. As far as I understand, an infraction is equivalent to a “summary” here in PA. In PA, If you’re charged with a summary traffic or non traffic (such as disorderly conduct, harassment, public intox, etc) the police are actually the ones who would prosecute during a summary hearing at the magisterial district judge level. The DA would never see that charge unless the person were to appeal it to the court of common pleas level which is very rare.

Like I suggested, his best bet is to contact the officer and see why it got changed. That’s the only realistic way to get answers before the preliminary hearing.

Anyways, yes, if he was charged for the infraction, pled guilty and paid the fine then it shouldn’t have been able to be changed.

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