Under-insured Riders

JACK_Schit
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una AZ
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:13pm
Seem's like there is a serious insurance problem with people who ride dirt bikes. Question for any of you MX Mom and Dad's - how could you justify sending your kid out on the track knowing he doesn't have sufficient disability insurance and/or sufficient medial insurance?

Is it irresponsible to take such HUGE LIFE CHANGING risks knowing your not properly insured?

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GuyB
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12/22/2009 8:27pm
I get that you've got a legit question. And that you probably created this account so that you could ask it. But why not ask it in a generic way, rather than pinning it on one particular rider?
swizcore
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Fenton, MI US
12/22/2009 8:29pm
Yeah, I didn't want to implicate CC, I was answering in a general sense. I have no idea what CC's insurances is.
TerryK
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12/22/2009 8:36pm
GuyB wrote:
I get that you've got a legit question. And that you probably created this account so that you could ask it. But why not ask it...
I get that you've got a legit question. And that you probably created this account so that you could ask it. But why not ask it in a generic way, rather than pinning it on one particular rider?
x2

The Shop

Sandberm
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12/22/2009 8:49pm Edited Date/Time 12/22/2009 9:07pm
Good Idea, Ill edit.

Its my understanding policies that cover 80% of the cost leaving the policyholder the remaining 20% are a culprit. People do not realize that 20% can still be a very large dollar amount, especially for a young person who has no significant savings built up yet.
GuyB
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12/22/2009 8:58pm
Hey Sandberm...check my response up top. How about we stick to Mr. Schit's topic, but make it non-specific to a rider. I don't think (as you said) any of us are experts in health insurance. Or maybe there are some who'll step up here.
FIREfish148
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12/22/2009 9:16pm
I ride w/ out insurance as of last month. Atleast im doing something i love to do scchhhiiiit.
Clutchy
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redding, CA US
12/22/2009 9:28pm
I ride w/ out insurance as of last month. Atleast im doing something i love to do scchhhiiiit.
Way too go.........................
GuyB
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12/22/2009 9:34pm
I ride w/ out insurance as of last month. Atleast im doing something i love to do scchhhiiiit.
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
gmoney
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Murrieta, CA US
12/22/2009 9:40pm
GuyB wrote:
Hey Sandberm...check my response up top. How about we stick to Mr. Schit's topic, but make it non-specific to a rider. I don't think (as you...
Hey Sandberm...check my response up top. How about we stick to Mr. Schit's topic, but make it non-specific to a rider. I don't think (as you said) any of us are experts in health insurance. Or maybe there are some who'll step up here.
A standard PPO policy covers 80% after the deductible is met. The deductible plus coinsurance (20%) adds up to what's called an "Annual out of pocket max,' which is typically in the $5,000 range for an individual on an average PPO policy. It's not a lot when considering all the healthcare bills will add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

It's not easy in CA to qualify for an individual policy (vs a policy offered thru an employer which is very easy to get). An individual disability for a motocross racer is even more difficult to qualify for.

TerryK
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12/22/2009 9:41pm
GuyB wrote:
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
Or move to Canada. Tongue
GuyB
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12/22/2009 9:41pm
Sandberm wrote:
Good Idea, Ill edit. Its my understanding policies that cover 80% of the cost leaving the policyholder the remaining 20% are a culprit. People do not...
Good Idea, Ill edit.

Its my understanding policies that cover 80% of the cost leaving the policyholder the remaining 20% are a culprit. People do not realize that 20% can still be a very large dollar amount, especially for a young person who has no significant savings built up yet.
I think if the rider is a minor, the parents need to take a very good look at what's covered...or not. They also need to find out if there are specific exclusions for motorcycles, or amateur or pro competition events.

Of course, the same applies if the rider isn't a minor. But I think it's everyone's responsibility to be adequately insured before riding. I sat out two events earlier this year because I knew I wasn't covered. (My ex left a job and new coverage hadn't kicked in yet.)

My guess is that there might be some other pitfalls here. Anyone else?
751
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Mesa, AZ US
12/22/2009 10:06pm
This is what sucks the most in life, Insurance pitfalls and open holes, I have great health insurance and aflac together, wont ride without either, for what you pay and what can happen, It could ruin your life forever and never come out ahead! Im not saying dirt bikes in particular, I wont stop riding them till I cant, You can get seriously hurt doing anything else. Like guy said, read the fine print!! I cant stress this enough either!! This stuff is not getting cheaper by any means, its a reality. I hate dealing with insurance.
I thought I had heard once, if you fall off a atv you are covered, but if you fall off a dirtbike it opens up a new book. Also events might have a different effect also. IDK for sure.


Just my opinions
751
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12/22/2009 10:10pm
TerryK wrote:
Or move to Canada. Tongue
Everyone in Canada is covered 100% on health insurance by the government, correct? But you guys just pay alot more for eveything else right? Please correct me if Im wrong.
Rooster
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12/22/2009 10:13pm
Not much more. You'd be very surprised.
Flatliner
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12/22/2009 10:42pm
Rooster wrote:
Not much more. You'd be very surprised.
quoted for truth.
I also have insurance through my bank that covers lost income in case of injury. Thats not free though.
andymoto
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Carmichael, CA US
12/22/2009 10:50pm
I ride w/ out insurance as of last month. Atleast im doing something i love to do scchhhiiiit.
GuyB wrote:
My suggestion? Stop riding until you can get some insurance.
I agree. I quit riding for 2 yrs in early '80s waiting for FT jobs probationary time to pass so I could be insured and race again.

FIREfish148
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12/22/2009 10:54pm
Wow i need to move to Canada. Although i havent gone to the doc for a moto-related injury since 05.
Whitey
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Perth AU
12/22/2009 11:03pm
I still cannot get over how expensive health care in the states is, boggles my mind. I know when i travel there, i get insurance. But if i got injured, like i did this year, ended up being broken ankle i found out when i got home, i am still too scared to go to a hospital incase the insurance company find a loophole somehow and i end up in financial ruin for the next 10 years.

I was lucky i only had a few days to go, put up with it until i got home and got it checked into then.
bvm111
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Las Vegas, NV US
12/22/2009 11:09pm
For all of you that want "free" health care... you are perfectly allowed under the constitution I have sworn to defend for nearly 20 years to renounce your American citizenship and become a citizen of any socialist country you wish... in fact you can feel free (pun intended)... in fact I will buy you a plane ticket and a swift kick in the ass on the way out!

Otherwise man up and take responsibility for your own choices to participate in your chosen past time and buy your own insurance and keep your hand out of my families pockets and expect someone else to take care of you and your own stupidity!!!

OK ill get off my soapbox… carry on!!!
dpingree101
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Temecula, CA US
12/22/2009 11:18pm
FYI, Christian has insurance. But the deductible and % that they don't cover is astronomical with an accident like this... I'm guessing half a million bucks retail?
Also, with free insurance (Canada) you also get crappy doctors. Don't believe me? Talk to someone that came to the States from there to see a specialist.
Finally, I love bvm111. Preach on, brother.
bvm111
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12/22/2009 11:35pm
Ping responded to my little rant/post... (sniff sniff) I dont now what to say, for once in my life I am speechless.... I have now seen the top of the mountain and it is good!! Cool
JG2
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Calgary CA
12/22/2009 11:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:35pm
Rooster, I don't know where you are shopping in Edmonton (or what you are smoking) but we pay at least 2x as much for just about everything compared to anyone lucky enough to live South of the border, and probably 3x.

Guys are on here saying they can get new 09 450's for $4,000 - I saw an 09 CRF450 for $9,300 @ Riverside this weekend.

And, to my US friends...yeah, our health care is "free" but you wait a loooong time if you need anything major done. Plus, you can't pay and move to the front of the line here like you guys can. Not sure which system is better, but if I get real sick I'll be paying to get treated in the US anyway instead of waiting in line until I am dead.
12/23/2009 12:01am
I have some experience with insurance and/or lack of or just plain loopholes that the insurance companies use to get out of paying a claim.

I am covered by a private policy that I have been paying for since I quit the film union I worked for. I have Regence Blue Cross Blue shield out of Portland ,Oregon. I pay close to $900 per month for my wife ,myself and our three kids.

Some of you guys know I was injured at Elsinore three years ago this Dec 30th I took a digger and ended up with a broken femur (two places), ascetabulum, pelvis and humerus. I had three major surgeries at Riverside County med center and spent 15 days in that lovely establishment.

My first problem was that I was "out of network" and usually this is covered by the fact that the service's were of an emergency nature which usually requalifies you as" in network" even though you are out. One small problem was that I was initially taken to the med clinic in Murrieta near the track which had no business treating someone with the extensive injuries I sustained. So they stabilize me and then transfer me to a trauma team at riverside to handle the injuries. This is the part that my beloved insurance company used to remove the emergency nature of my situation therefore disqualifying my "in network" coverage. I then rang up a hospital bill to the tune of $185,000 (at Riverside) and Blue Cross used this as their way to deny paying for my claim. Leaving me with about $70,000 in out of pocket expenses. They denied all of my appeals pretty much saying tough luck buddy. So now I pay for the next 30+ years for that fateful day at Elsinore.


One of the things I learned was that if I had been a California resident I would have qualified for MediCal which would have then kicked in and covered the outstanding balances. This is one thing for Christian to check into if he is a resident of Cali (if that's where he was injured) it sounds like a good program.

I also learned that in the sport of motocross you are probably better off if you also have AFLAC or some other supplemental coverage to cover what your policy doesn't cover. In my case the out of network clause left me responsible for 40% of my bills. Luckily I was able to transfer myself back to Oregon to have the rest of my surgeries and recovery where I was back in network and covered 100%

I agree with Guy B don't ride without insurance, it's irresponsible and in America you can be ruined finacially for the rest of your life if you don't have adequate insurance. If I had done major spinal or head injury my out of pocket could have easily been upwards of $500,000 not to mention the ongoing cost of extended treatment.

Good luck and read the fine print on your policy, the insurance companies don't make their money by paying claims, they make it by collecting premiums and denying claims. It's sad but true, I unfortunately learned this the hard way but I still feel lucky that I can walk and enjoy my family and believe it or not still ride, but I only ride in area's where I am "in network"
GuyB
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12/23/2009 12:06am Edited Date/Time 12/23/2009 12:11am
Thanks for that cautionary tale, and thanks for the info, Ping.

When I see guys complaining about how much rebuilding a four-stroke costs (and that would be a minor thing compared to any serious injury), it makes me wonder how many of them are skimping on insurance.
jdj727
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Phelan, CA US
12/23/2009 12:23am
I get a kick out of it when guys say I dont want to pay for your mistake. Its so easy when its not you but I am sure you do stuff that cost me. Also Hospitals have Ins that cover stuff like no ins dont think it comes out your pocket...maybe if they made ins more affordable for people who worked an are also legal citizens. No illegal should be able to walk into any hospital and get treated. I would love to see a guy who make 25 bucks a hour in this day afford a house, wife, kids and ins trust me I make more then that and there is no way... so tell me why is Ins so much. Shit my Kaiser sucks and this stuff free through work you think I would pay for it....2 months to tell me I tore my acl please..
Loose
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12/23/2009 12:28am
GuyB wrote:
Thanks for that cautionary tale, and thanks for the info, Ping. When I see guys complaining about how much rebuilding a four-stroke costs (and that would...
Thanks for that cautionary tale, and thanks for the info, Ping.

When I see guys complaining about how much rebuilding a four-stroke costs (and that would be a minor thing compared to any serious injury), it makes me wonder how many of them are skimping on insurance.
Skimping on insurance but spending on the pipe, decals, triple clamps, rims........ etc

I hate insurance but you've gotta have it. Necessary evil.
12/23/2009 1:04am
I have seen and been in a situation simular to Dirtysmiles. And with Blue Cross

here are a few counters too their dis-allowances and exclusions.

when they pull the out of network crap... read your fine print. The language they use, if its simular to mine, they are talking about primary care physicians and seeing specialist out of state when its not under direct referral with approval from them(translation, you cant just up and goto the Mayo Clininc on a whim, but I have yet to hear BC/BS not authorise a specialist, but firs time for everything). They cant legally use location, as long as the claim happened in the usa, as an excuse to disallow. There is no, as far as I was told by my lawyer, state, county, city only coverage , you dont and they cant limit coverage by location. They will tell you that, have a lawyer write one letter and they usually wont mention it again.

secondly... ask the hospital to SUE you. You can NOT sue your own insurance to get them to pay someone else. Ask about it. You cant. BUT, if YOU get sued, and you have paid your premiums and are covered... if the hospital sues YOU, you CAN bring your own insurance in as a co-defendant VERY successfully. Worst case, you still owe what you owe and its on your credit as a judgement. Bright side, they cant charge you over 5% interest, and you can appeal to the court to waive that, plus they will generally be instructed by the court to accept a settlement amount. Thats the bad side. Good side. you never goto court, you get sued, goto an attorney, he files BC/BS as a co-defendent. you sit back, they pay what they are supposed to. Let their lawyers fight about it, thats why they retain them. The above is FACT, not imo. I literally had to do this. Mine was a bit weird though... got married. My wife was under the EXACT same BC/BS policy I had. We filed within 30 days of being married to move her from her dads to mine. BC/BS considers this a policy change for her. 1 year before you can make a maternity claim. We get married in Dec 05. Nov 11, 1996, little girl arrives.... had to pay for it ALL they said. 22,000. Yes I know that makes a difference, price vs how much to goto court ect. But my dad, had a 152,000 bill. 15 days in ICU, hospital for another 20 days. they claimed the specialist that was brought in for dad was out of coverage. Mom went to the attorney, 2 or 3 letters, got served, named BC/BS as co-defendent... they suddenly paid. So it has legs.

For the record, this is 2 cases out of 40 years of my dad having a shit ton of claims and they paid better than expected... dad had 23 back and neck surgeries. Degenerative disk disease. BC/BS even paid 100% of the costs for dad to have a $45,000 morphine pump implanted and ported into his spine... that bill was over 100k. So, there are instances, but I wouldnt goto anyone else.

Again, this isnt some IMO. This is from a lawyer that is versed in medical malpractice, and liability. He might be an ambulance chaser, but hes a damn good one around here.

Also, personal tip that works, you just have to go high enough up the hospitals chain of command in the accounts receivable department. Ask them if they would accept from you, the same amount they would accept from your insurance if you were at 100% dedectable. its typically between 40~60% off! FACT! you just gotta find someone that can ok it at the hospital.

lastly... i dont know where the hell some of you stating things get yoru insurance, but if you have insurance thats 80% 20% from 1 dollar until you hit your cap... you have shit insurance. You ask around, the med bills and crisis most get into isnt because of some 80-20 deal, its because they cap their insurance out! Why is Blue Cross, good blue cross, so expensive, relatively speaking? I pay the first 800 out of pocket. it applies to my deductable, plus just because I have insurance, most providers waive 40 to 60% of the charge.

Secondly, once I pay 800, i then have to pay 20% of all charges until i hit $2000 total paid out (including the original 800) after that, I go %100 covered. Also, any charges I pay in the last 90 days of a calendar year, carry over to the next year.

I have a 15$ co-pay for general physician visits, but the best part, i have NO cap. 100,000, 200,000,000. There is NO cap. As long as I pay the deductable, ($602 a month for me, 38, wife 37, kids 13, and 10) they cant drop me.

Look it up. BlueCross Blue Shield is generally one of the best you can get, but no matter what, there are always stories out there and they WILL, if they think they can, try to loophole you. just do it back.
GuyB
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12/23/2009 1:48am
jdj727 wrote:
I get a kick out of it when guys say I dont want to pay for your mistake. Its so easy when its not you but...
I get a kick out of it when guys say I dont want to pay for your mistake. Its so easy when its not you but I am sure you do stuff that cost me. Also Hospitals have Ins that cover stuff like no ins dont think it comes out your pocket...maybe if they made ins more affordable for people who worked an are also legal citizens. No illegal should be able to walk into any hospital and get treated. I would love to see a guy who make 25 bucks a hour in this day afford a house, wife, kids and ins trust me I make more then that and there is no way... so tell me why is Ins so much. Shit my Kaiser sucks and this stuff free through work you think I would pay for it....2 months to tell me I tore my acl please..
Okay, how about if I say I don't want to be part of your mistake? Wink

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