Tomac vs Roczen

BenchRacer9000
Edited Date/Time 12/27/2013 8:14am
I was thinking of the tomac and roczen battles and I was wondering, has Roczen ever straight up passed Tomac?
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Xeno
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Xeno 12/25/2013 8:05pm
12/25/2013 8:05pm
MXdN back in September?
stewie94
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stewie94 12/25/2013 8:19pm
12/25/2013 8:19pm
hangtown mx
40Plus_922mx
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40Plus_922mx 12/25/2013 9:01pm
12/25/2013 9:01pm
I would say that Tomacs bit of speed over K-Roc was due to his lack of fitness. We saw K-Roc get serious about his shape towards the end of last season and his speed was better and more consistant. All things being equal ie. bike & fitness, I think K-Roc will have a slight advantage over the Tomahawk in 450SX simply due to Tomacs rookie status and new bike learning curve. Should a good match up.
crusty_xx 12/26/2013 1:46am
12/26/2013 1:46am
Roczen passed him several times but Tomac has always been the faster one in and outdoors.
But its a different story on the big bike I think. Roczens style should be better for the 450 than the agressive physical one Tomac has...
Had Roczen continued his old train programm I would now say he has no chance because the bike its much more intense to ride, the competition is a lot better (he cant just say oh Tomac has gone Ima settle for second) and its 20 laps.
Now I dont know, should make up for some great battles hopefully

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Wright_36
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Wright_36 12/26/2013 3:52am
12/26/2013 3:52am
Roczen has passed him a couple times mostly within the first few laps of a race. Tomac has always been a slow starter. That being said , Tomac has obviously been the faster of the two until now. I think Roczen will have better results in the beginning because he gets good starts and seems to adapt very quickly. Come outdoors I think Tomac will start showing his speed
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IWreckALot 12/26/2013 4:33am
12/26/2013 4:33am
40Plus_922mx wrote:
I would say that Tomacs bit of speed over K-Roc was due to his lack of fitness. We saw K-Roc get serious about his shape towards...
I would say that Tomacs bit of speed over K-Roc was due to his lack of fitness. We saw K-Roc get serious about his shape towards the end of last season and his speed was better and more consistant. All things being equal ie. bike & fitness, I think K-Roc will have a slight advantage over the Tomahawk in 450SX simply due to Tomacs rookie status and new bike learning curve. Should a good match up.
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now.

My personal opinion is that Tomac has been a little quiet and we don't know what he's doing. . . And why would Tomac's aggressive style not work on the 450? Not going to compare him to RV quite yet but he seems quite aggressive on the 450 and it's worked out more than it hasn't so far. . .
TripleDigit 12/26/2013 5:24am
12/26/2013 5:24am
First half of the Outdoors he did a few times,it looked pretty much like it was going to be Roczen's year,he got through the pack quickly and early and checked out at times,often going by Tomac, but Tomac ran him down a total of 5 times on his emergance as the fasttes

This year,diferrent bikes,diferrent bikes,diferrent riders and for Roczen,a diferrent trainer,I think the 2 are going to be very,very close
BenchRacer9000 12/26/2013 6:08am
12/26/2013 6:08am
Xeno wrote:
MXdN back in September?
I would have to watch it again but didn't Roczen get a better start than Eli?
BenchRacer9000 12/26/2013 6:09am
12/26/2013 6:09am
stewie94 wrote:
hangtown mx
Idk how I forgot that. Roczen was on rails at the opener.
BenchRacer9000 12/26/2013 6:13am
12/26/2013 6:13am
TripleDigit wrote:
First half of the Outdoors he did a few times,it looked pretty much like it was going to be Roczen's year,he got through the pack quickly...
First half of the Outdoors he did a few times,it looked pretty much like it was going to be Roczen's year,he got through the pack quickly and early and checked out at times,often going by Tomac, but Tomac ran him down a total of 5 times on his emergance as the fasttes

This year,diferrent bikes,diferrent bikes,diferrent riders and for Roczen,a diferrent trainer,I think the 2 are going to be very,very close
I wouldnt say he went by Tomac often. Yes the first half of the season was alot closer between the two but it would just be who got the better starts. Look at the second round Thunder Valley when Tomac caught Roczen and was looking for a pass on the last lap before he went down.
ToolMaker 12/26/2013 7:25am
12/26/2013 7:25am
IWreckALot wrote:
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now. My personal opinion is that Tomac has been...
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now.

My personal opinion is that Tomac has been a little quiet and we don't know what he's doing. . . And why would Tomac's aggressive style not work on the 450? Not going to compare him to RV quite yet but he seems quite aggressive on the 450 and it's worked out more than it hasn't so far. . .
Posssibly because it's a lot easier to manhandle the little bike. The little bike gets a little out of sorts and he just pushes it back in place, not so much the big bike with the added power. RD the man was quoted when James made the jump to the 450, about it not being so easy. KR just seems to have more finesse vs. brut force.
TM
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Ctrefz787 12/26/2013 7:49am
12/26/2013 7:49am
IWreckALot wrote:
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now. My personal opinion is that Tomac has been...
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now.

My personal opinion is that Tomac has been a little quiet and we don't know what he's doing. . . And why would Tomac's aggressive style not work on the 450? Not going to compare him to RV quite yet but he seems quite aggressive on the 450 and it's worked out more than it hasn't so far. . .
ToolMaker wrote:
Posssibly because it's a lot easier to manhandle the little bike. The little bike gets a little out of sorts and he just pushes it back...
Posssibly because it's a lot easier to manhandle the little bike. The little bike gets a little out of sorts and he just pushes it back in place, not so much the big bike with the added power. RD the man was quoted when James made the jump to the 450, about it not being so easy. KR just seems to have more finesse vs. brut force.
TM
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates the men from the boys. Remember all the hype of some of the 250 riders moving up which never materialized. Roczen will do great outdoors on the 450 but I'm not so sure in supercross, time will tell.
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IWreckALot 12/26/2013 8:00am
12/26/2013 8:00am
Ctrefz787 wrote:
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates...
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates the men from the boys. Remember all the hype of some of the 250 riders moving up which never materialized. Roczen will do great outdoors on the 450 but I'm not so sure in supercross, time will tell.
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the faster competition in the 450 class. There's not really enough history to really say which guy is going to do better than the other. I just hope they're both there to stir up the class a bit. It would be awesome to see one of them start getting in RV's head consistently. Then we can see how he performs under pressure.
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peelout 12/26/2013 8:42am
12/26/2013 8:42am Edited Date/Time 12/26/2013 9:04am
Xeno wrote:
MXdN back in September?
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I would have to watch it again but didn't Roczen get a better start than Eli?
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another.

Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year.

these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an agenda, we've seen it many times (Reed vs RC, Reed vs Stewart, Dungey vs RV). but it's racing and at the end of the day if you get a better start then who cares
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COAL-TRAIN 12/26/2013 9:23am
12/26/2013 9:23am
Xeno wrote:
MXdN back in September?
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I would have to watch it again but didn't Roczen get a better start than Eli?
peelout wrote:
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another. Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year. these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an...
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another.

Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year.

these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an agenda, we've seen it many times (Reed vs RC, Reed vs Stewart, Dungey vs RV). but it's racing and at the end of the day if you get a better start then who cares
Kenny got plenty of good starts...and at the end of most of those days he got ran down and passed by ol Tomac
TMV
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TMV 12/26/2013 10:15am
12/26/2013 10:15am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
Kenny got plenty of good starts...and at the end of most of those days he got ran down and passed by ol Tomac
True. Really looking forward to seeing how it goes now that Roczen actually trains and droped his ice cream diet though...
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KlootZak 12/26/2013 11:25am
12/26/2013 11:25am
peelout wrote:
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another. Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year. these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an...
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another.

Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year.

these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an agenda, we've seen it many times (Reed vs RC, Reed vs Stewart, Dungey vs RV). but it's racing and at the end of the day if you get a better start then who cares
It reminds me why I should avoid VitalMX as much as possible (which is hard when the championship is about to begin)
wired4speed 12/26/2013 11:37am
12/26/2013 11:37am
Tomac turned it up in the outdoor season. I don't see it as Tomac vs Roczen. Tomac has the RV track aggression and Roczen has a smooth fast style like Windham and Dungey. I see Tomac and Barcia as the two threats against the old dogs.

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IWreckALot 12/26/2013 11:51am
12/26/2013 11:51am
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
Kenny got plenty of good starts...and at the end of most of those days he got ran down and passed by ol Tomac
TMV wrote:
True. Really looking forward to seeing how it goes now that Roczen actually trains and droped his ice cream diet though...
That is definitely the biggest unknown about how the Roczen/Tomac rivalry will shape up. We haven't really seen Roczen race since he's picked up Aldon.
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Ctrefz787 12/26/2013 1:48pm
12/26/2013 1:48pm
Ctrefz787 wrote:
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates...
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates the men from the boys. Remember all the hype of some of the 250 riders moving up which never materialized. Roczen will do great outdoors on the 450 but I'm not so sure in supercross, time will tell.
IWreckALot wrote:
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the...
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the faster competition in the 450 class. There's not really enough history to really say which guy is going to do better than the other. I just hope they're both there to stir up the class a bit. It would be awesome to see one of them start getting in RV's head consistently. Then we can see how he performs under pressure.
I would love to see both of them get in RVs head!!! That would make the season kick ass!!
Wetterstrand 12/26/2013 2:28pm
12/26/2013 2:28pm
IWreckALot wrote:
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the...
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the faster competition in the 450 class. There's not really enough history to really say which guy is going to do better than the other. I just hope they're both there to stir up the class a bit. It would be awesome to see one of them start getting in RV's head consistently. Then we can see how he performs under pressure.
Roczen raced the 350 last year (not the 450) he did good half the main in Daytona until he got armpump and dropped.
They will be fighting for the top position from the start of the series.
mx 219
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mx 219 12/26/2013 2:29pm
12/26/2013 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 12/26/2013 2:30pm
Ctrefz787 wrote:
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates...
Before everyone believes Roczen has finesse on a 450, we haven't seen him ride it on a track with whoops. The only real obstacle that separates the men from the boys. Remember all the hype of some of the 250 riders moving up which never materialized. Roczen will do great outdoors on the 450 but I'm not so sure in supercross, time will tell.
IWreckALot wrote:
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the...
Roczen had some awesome races last year on the 450. He looked better during the 450 rounds than Tomac did and was beating some of the faster competition in the 450 class. There's not really enough history to really say which guy is going to do better than the other. I just hope they're both there to stir up the class a bit. It would be awesome to see one of them start getting in RV's head consistently. Then we can see how he performs under pressure.
???

Roczen only raced Daytona in the 450 class last year. At the end of the 1st lap he was first, he went back to 7th. Tomac started 9th and worked up to 4th.
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Hut 12/26/2013 2:35pm
12/26/2013 2:35pm
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I would have to watch it again but didn't Roczen get a better start than Eli?
peelout wrote:
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another. Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year. these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an...
edit... just realized the thread is about passing one another.

Roczen passed Tomac plenty of times this year.

these threads always kill me. somebody pushing an agenda, we've seen it many times (Reed vs RC, Reed vs Stewart, Dungey vs RV). but it's racing and at the end of the day if you get a better start then who cares
COAL-TRAIN wrote:
Kenny got plenty of good starts...and at the end of most of those days he got ran down and passed by ol Tomac
True!
TbonesPop 12/26/2013 4:15pm
12/26/2013 4:15pm
I think both will be outstanding on the 450 eventually, but there will be an adjustment period for both. If I had to say which one would make the adjustment sooner, I'd say Kenny just because of his riding style on the bike. He's a smooth rider who doesn't use a ton of energy working the bike and twisting the grips off of it. He tends to shift earlier and ride in the power band. Tomac works the bike, bangs the rev limiter some (not like Bambam though) and twists the grips off. I like 'em both and will be rooting for their success - I love having so many riders that could win a main event on any given weekend. I just think Kenny pushes for main event wins before Eli does. JMHO
StartedTooLate 12/26/2013 4:33pm
12/26/2013 4:33pm
40Plus_922mx wrote:
I would say that Tomacs bit of speed over K-Roc was due to his lack of fitness. We saw K-Roc get serious about his shape towards...
I would say that Tomacs bit of speed over K-Roc was due to his lack of fitness. We saw K-Roc get serious about his shape towards the end of last season and his speed was better and more consistant. All things being equal ie. bike & fitness, I think K-Roc will have a slight advantage over the Tomahawk in 450SX simply due to Tomacs rookie status and new bike learning curve. Should a good match up.
IWreckALot wrote:
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now. My personal opinion is that Tomac has been...
Aren't they both rookies on new bikes? And Tomac has trained on a 450 for some time now.

My personal opinion is that Tomac has been a little quiet and we don't know what he's doing. . . And why would Tomac's aggressive style not work on the 450? Not going to compare him to RV quite yet but he seems quite aggressive on the 450 and it's worked out more than it hasn't so far. . .
Tomac really throws the bike around..he moves a lot on the bike...and uses that in combination with throttle technique to do things that other riders just don't or can't do. He bounces the bike off a lot of stuff. One some outdoor tracks...he is riding a different track than the other guys. He looks at obstacles in a different way...hits them differently. He is just on another level. When he is riding at that level...he is even of a different level from RV I think. It is just crazy how good he is outdoors. His lap time differential at a few of the outdoor tracks was just astounding. 2,3,4 sec a lap is just INSANE. He did that over and over last year.

The speed differential between Tomac and Roczen at various points has NOTHING to do with fitness. Tomac is just faster (in MX especially)

That said...there is just not as much latitude for that 'creativity' in SX. I also think Tomac's ability to ride like that is very dependent on bike set up. When the bike is not right for him...he really drops back. His starts are also going to KILL him in SX. I see Tomac having an OK season...but some flashes of stunning brilliance this year. We may see a race or two where he just KILLS everyone...including RV. But then the next race...he will be P8....due to a bad start...and not being in the groove.
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BobPA 12/26/2013 6:00pm
12/26/2013 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/26/2013 6:02pm
StartedTooLate wrote:
Tomac really throws the bike around..he moves a lot on the bike...and uses that in combination with throttle technique to do things that other riders just...
Tomac really throws the bike around..he moves a lot on the bike...and uses that in combination with throttle technique to do things that other riders just don't or can't do. He bounces the bike off a lot of stuff. One some outdoor tracks...he is riding a different track than the other guys. He looks at obstacles in a different way...hits them differently. He is just on another level. When he is riding at that level...he is even of a different level from RV I think. It is just crazy how good he is outdoors. His lap time differential at a few of the outdoor tracks was just astounding. 2,3,4 sec a lap is just INSANE. He did that over and over last year.

The speed differential between Tomac and Roczen at various points has NOTHING to do with fitness. Tomac is just faster (in MX especially)

That said...there is just not as much latitude for that 'creativity' in SX. I also think Tomac's ability to ride like that is very dependent on bike set up. When the bike is not right for him...he really drops back. His starts are also going to KILL him in SX. I see Tomac having an OK season...but some flashes of stunning brilliance this year. We may see a race or two where he just KILLS everyone...including RV. But then the next race...he will be P8....due to a bad start...and not being in the groove.
Do Eli's nuts taste like Colorado Kool Aid?
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rebus 12/26/2013 6:04pm
12/26/2013 6:04pm
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I was thinking of the tomac and roczen battles and I was wondering, has Roczen ever straight up passed Tomac?
I guess it somehow doesn't count if Roczen started ahead and pulled away from Tomac?
mx 219
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mx 219 12/26/2013 7:04pm
12/26/2013 7:04pm
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I was thinking of the tomac and roczen battles and I was wondering, has Roczen ever straight up passed Tomac?
rebus wrote:
I guess it somehow doesn't count if Roczen started ahead and pulled away from Tomac?
Yeah because that happened so much...

MX:

Roczen 8 moto wins (mostly at beginning of the year)
Tomac: 14 moto wins

Overalls:
Roczen - 2
Tomac - 8
Bagget - 1
Musquin - 1

SX wins:

Tomac - 5
Roczen - 3
** (should have easily been 6 to 2, Im sure we all remember Eli's little spill at the end of Seattle)


Dont let the W coast SX title fool you, Tomac helped Roczen A LOT with the DNF. And Roczen got rocked o/a by Tomac the whole year.
Track and Trail 12/26/2013 10:03pm
12/26/2013 10:03pm
BenchRacer9000 wrote:
I was thinking of the tomac and roczen battles and I was wondering, has Roczen ever straight up passed Tomac?
rebus wrote:
I guess it somehow doesn't count if Roczen started ahead and pulled away from Tomac?
mx 219 wrote:
Yeah because that happened so much... MX: Roczen 8 moto wins (mostly at beginning of the year) Tomac: 14 moto wins Overalls: Roczen - 2 Tomac...
Yeah because that happened so much...

MX:

Roczen 8 moto wins (mostly at beginning of the year)
Tomac: 14 moto wins

Overalls:
Roczen - 2
Tomac - 8
Bagget - 1
Musquin - 1

SX wins:

Tomac - 5
Roczen - 3
** (should have easily been 6 to 2, Im sure we all remember Eli's little spill at the end of Seattle)


Dont let the W coast SX title fool you, Tomac helped Roczen A LOT with the DNF. And Roczen got rocked o/a by Tomac the whole year.
And Roczen's DNS didn't even things out?
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bd 12/26/2013 10:11pm
12/26/2013 10:11pm
rebus wrote:
I guess it somehow doesn't count if Roczen started ahead and pulled away from Tomac?
mx 219 wrote:
Yeah because that happened so much... MX: Roczen 8 moto wins (mostly at beginning of the year) Tomac: 14 moto wins Overalls: Roczen - 2 Tomac...
Yeah because that happened so much...

MX:

Roczen 8 moto wins (mostly at beginning of the year)
Tomac: 14 moto wins

Overalls:
Roczen - 2
Tomac - 8
Bagget - 1
Musquin - 1

SX wins:

Tomac - 5
Roczen - 3
** (should have easily been 6 to 2, Im sure we all remember Eli's little spill at the end of Seattle)


Dont let the W coast SX title fool you, Tomac helped Roczen A LOT with the DNF. And Roczen got rocked o/a by Tomac the whole year.
Track and Trail wrote:
And Roczen's DNS didn't even things out?
The residual affects of Tomac's crash followed the next weekend. I'll speak with candor, Tomac is faster and has more upside. He was consistently faster than KROC in SX and MX.

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