Making the 450’s "The Class of Champions"

Holigan
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 10:57am
If the 250’s are to be the stepping stone class and the 450’s the premier class, how about making champions move up? If a rider wins a SX or MX championship, the next year they move to the 450 class. No staying around to defend a championship. Champions race in the 450’s.

The others riders can stay in the 250’s. No pointing out. The only must move is if you win a championship. Otherwise they can stay in the 250’s for their whole careers.

The idea is to get the best riders racing in the 450 class. This year’s 450 class has been great, but I am betting it would be even better if Dungey and Canard had been there. The rumor now is that Pourcel is staying at PC another year. Wouldn’t it be more exciting to see him in 450’s next year? We already know he can win a SX 250 championship.

If a rider is in the 450 class and doesn’t finish in the top ten for two consecutive seasons, he can drop back down into the 250’s until he wins another championship, and then he has to move up again.

Anybody that wants to move up can at anytime. No rules saying you have to work your way up to the 450’s. Grant, Hahn and Regal have shown you don’t have to have a 250 championship to run up front in the 450’s. Yes, a number of guys are injured, but a number of riders are injured every season.

Each season at least two new guys are going to win a 250 championship, and there would be at least two new champions moving to the 450 class at A-1. There will be space for them on teams as every team would like to have a champion. A team would make room for them.

This would make the 450’s "The Class of Champions". It would have the best racing as every champion in the sport would be in the class.
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ocscottie
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7/26/2009 11:39am
With the new age limit to go pro coming in, that idea makes a whole lot more sense. IMO it would not be fair for a 16 yr old to come in and win say an E or W regional SX title, then have to move up to the 450 class.
calimxer91
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7/26/2009 11:58am
Say for example Barcia wins it all next year.He really should be forced to move up?
manering
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7/26/2009 1:59pm
calimxer91 wrote:
Say for example Barcia wins it all next year.He really should be forced to move up?
yep, get him into the premier class, reed moved up when he was 16, then a year or so later went to the gp's straight into racing against pichon and co.... didn't do him any harm.
rc4187
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7/26/2009 2:56pm
calimxer91 wrote:
Say for example Barcia wins it all next year.He really should be forced to move up?
Who would be more ready in the 250 class to move up than the guy that wins it all?

The Shop

calimxer91
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7/26/2009 4:46pm
calimxer91 wrote:
Say for example Barcia wins it all next year.He really should be forced to move up?
manering wrote:
yep, get him into the premier class, reed moved up when he was 16, then a year or so later went to the gp's straight into...
yep, get him into the premier class, reed moved up when he was 16, then a year or so later went to the gp's straight into racing against pichon and co.... didn't do him any harm.
Theres the other side too.Making a career out of the 250 class.It just seems like a kid being thrown out there to perform might hurt the confidence.I did feel RV went one year to much though.
cpj36
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7/26/2009 5:14pm
calimxer91 wrote:
Say for example Barcia wins it all next year.He really should be forced to move up?
rc4187 wrote:
Who would be more ready in the 250 class to move up than the guy that wins it all?
Stewart won it all a few times and wasn't ready
P
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7/27/2009 6:15am
Personally, I think the 250 class should be open to anyone, even guys that have won titles.


P
7/27/2009 6:22am
Some of you guys complain that the 450's are too dangerous and then others want to force Barcia to race one outdoors if he won a title at what... 15yrs old? I think that's looking for trouble.

Ok. As you were.
Ing
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7/27/2009 6:26am
Use to be the top guys WANTED to move up. Don't seem that way anymore.
jmar
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7/27/2009 6:29am
Some of you guys complain that the 450's are too dangerous and then others want to force Barcia to race one outdoors if he won a...
Some of you guys complain that the 450's are too dangerous and then others want to force Barcia to race one outdoors if he won a title at what... 15yrs old? I think that's looking for trouble.

Ok. As you were.
I agree.
7/27/2009 6:32am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2009 6:33am
Ing wrote:
Use to be the top guys WANTED to move up. Don't seem that way anymore.
125 two stroke to 250 two stroke (old days) was still kinda doable if you were a small guy, but 250f to 450f is going to be a bit of a nightmare if you're a small guy and not that strong physically.
Adam43
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7/27/2009 8:21am
I think its ridiculous how its sometimes looked at as a failure if a 450 rookie doesn't have big success right away.

Like how RC and Stewart both had a pretty tough first year in the big bikes...it certainly doesn't mean they "weren't ready." In fact, they couldn't have been more ready, they were nearly unbeatable in the 125 class.

Why can't it just be looked at as part of the process?
-eagle-
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7/27/2009 8:41am
Something needs to be done about the classes for sure.
This would hold more water if the 250's did the entire sx season.
the_wood109
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7/27/2009 9:08am
Stewie may have waited too long, as RC knew he was coming and had time to prepare. Say what you want, but RC adjusted to Stewart moving up.
toroP
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7/27/2009 9:18am
One bike, one class.
The best race the best.
Pro MX. Pro SX
If you're not ready, wait until next year.
bvm111
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7/27/2009 9:23am
I agree with making the 250 class in Supercross a national series..... I never understood it. The its a stepping stone for riders to gain experience may have worked back in 1985, but dont tell me that a 16 year old that enters his first supercross isnt experienced enough to ride the track. If there is a need for a regional series in SX then why not in MX.... or more importantly if there is not a need in MX why is there a need in SX?

Make the 250 class in SX a National Series!!!
FreshTopEnd
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7/27/2009 9:28am
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let guys run a 250f or 250T against a 450f.

The racing might even be better if it was all 250f's.

It isn't the size of the bike that will make a premier class, it's the quality of the riders, and all the best talent should run against one another. That's going to provide the best entertainment, at the track and especially on TV.
7/27/2009 9:36am
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let...
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let guys run a 250f or 250T against a 450f.

The racing might even be better if it was all 250f's.

It isn't the size of the bike that will make a premier class, it's the quality of the riders, and all the best talent should run against one another. That's going to provide the best entertainment, at the track and especially on TV.
What he said.
7/27/2009 10:14am
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let...
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let guys run a 250f or 250T against a 450f.

The racing might even be better if it was all 250f's.

It isn't the size of the bike that will make a premier class, it's the quality of the riders, and all the best talent should run against one another. That's going to provide the best entertainment, at the track and especially on TV.
What he said.
Most of the talent races basically for free.

Why the hell should they be forced to make an interesting tv series?

And free means negative $250,000 to even get to the stadium racing level.

FreshTopEnd
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7/27/2009 10:22am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 1:09am
"Why the hell should they be forced to make an interesting tv series? "

"Forced?" They wouldn't be any more forced to do anything than they are now. There will continue to be less money for everyone without compelling TV to bring in more eyes to sell to sponsors.
BobbyM
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7/27/2009 10:43am
Holigan wrote:
If the 250’s are to be the stepping stone class and the 450’s the premier class, how about making champions move up? If a rider wins...
If the 250’s are to be the stepping stone class and the 450’s the premier class, how about making champions move up? If a rider wins a SX or MX championship, the next year they move to the 450 class. No staying around to defend a championship. Champions race in the 450’s.

The others riders can stay in the 250’s. No pointing out. The only must move is if you win a championship. Otherwise they can stay in the 250’s for their whole careers.

The idea is to get the best riders racing in the 450 class. This year’s 450 class has been great, but I am betting it would be even better if Dungey and Canard had been there. The rumor now is that Pourcel is staying at PC another year. Wouldn’t it be more exciting to see him in 450’s next year? We already know he can win a SX 250 championship.

If a rider is in the 450 class and doesn’t finish in the top ten for two consecutive seasons, he can drop back down into the 250’s until he wins another championship, and then he has to move up again.

Anybody that wants to move up can at anytime. No rules saying you have to work your way up to the 450’s. Grant, Hahn and Regal have shown you don’t have to have a 250 championship to run up front in the 450’s. Yes, a number of guys are injured, but a number of riders are injured every season.

Each season at least two new guys are going to win a 250 championship, and there would be at least two new champions moving to the 450 class at A-1. There will be space for them on teams as every team would like to have a champion. A team would make room for them.

This would make the 450’s "The Class of Champions". It would have the best racing as every champion in the sport would be in the class.
mitch payton just unlocked his wheelchair.....
BobbyM
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7/27/2009 10:45am
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let...
I absolutely think it will be essential to get the best guys all racing together, but I wouldn"t limit them to a particular bike size. Let guys run a 250f or 250T against a 450f.

The racing might even be better if it was all 250f's.

It isn't the size of the bike that will make a premier class, it's the quality of the riders, and all the best talent should run against one another. That's going to provide the best entertainment, at the track and especially on TV.
great points michael, and to make it even more exciting make all the amatuer "B" riders race the 250's. too bad the rules encourage B riders to stay cherry pickers, gman syndrome so to speak...crazy shit i say
Tiki
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7/27/2009 11:04am
I like the direction. My point of view would be:
Semi-pro (current 250 type class): all 125 pingers.
Pro Class: Open to all cc sizes and bikes. 250 mod, 250 two stroke, 350 four stroke and 450F. First one across the finish line wins.

Semi-pro class would be 16 year old entry. Open would be 18 year old entry age.
Motos for the semi pro would be 30 minutes plus 2
Open would be 45-50 minute plus two. I would want an hour, but im not sure the bikes would make it on the tanks they have currently.
Devil1nNj
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7/27/2009 11:27am
Only glitch I see is if they win SX as a rookie they only have 8 pro races under their belt. Huh
Ing
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7/27/2009 11:35am
Ing wrote:
Use to be the top guys WANTED to move up. Don't seem that way anymore.
125 two stroke to 250 two stroke (old days) was still kinda doable if you were a small guy, but 250f to 450f is going to...
125 two stroke to 250 two stroke (old days) was still kinda doable if you were a small guy, but 250f to 450f is going to be a bit of a nightmare if you're a small guy and not that strong physically.
In the real OLD days it use to be 250 smoker to 500 smoker. I started riding 500's when I was about 145lbs. and 16 years old. Never looked back. Before someone says it, yea it was at the pro level (then, not now)
Jabjr222
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7/27/2009 11:38am
These guys have raced all of their lives... It's not like they "just" got out there... That 15 yo has been racing for 11 years... and while they are amateurs, they run the 450's so its not like they don't have experience or the ability to ride the big bikes. If we were worried about them jumping up on the big bikes, then we should ban 450's for amateur racing...

Racing is set up for cherry picking... I hate seeing these talented 250f guys staying in the class for three years. Last year with RV in the 250 class was bullshit.

You force the better racers into the premier class (why should we have to force them, shouldn't they want to race the premier class?) and you stack the deck so to speak. It could be the best thing for the sport. It would make the 250f's truly a support class.

Does anyone want to see CP on 250's next year? What about Barcia, you guys want to see him race 250's for another 3 years?

My opinion, there should be a premier class and a support class with both being open to any engine size and type.
Andimers
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7/27/2009 12:21pm
We have great racing in both 450s and 250s this year. Why change anything.
motocross377
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7/27/2009 2:32pm
Andimers wrote:
We have great racing in both 450s and 250s this year. Why change anything.
x2

certain riders fit one bike better over the other. not everyone might be fit to ride a 450 or a 250f. everyone seems to be look at the 250f class as a lesser class then the 450s
FreshTopEnd
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7/27/2009 3:28pm
Why wouldn't the racing be better if the best talent was in one class, particularly if the riders had their choice of engine size in that class? I think it would probably be better in both classes.

Doesn't have anything to do with one engine size being "better" that the other as far as my opinion goes. I just want the 10-20 best riders not split between two classes.

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