KTM 125/150 vs Yamaha YZ 125 handling question

blaze 57
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Edited Date/Time 2/16/2021 6:54am
This is the new bikes only. Was wondering which one had the tighter turning, flickable. quicker handling stock chassis? Thanks
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lostboy819
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2/15/2021 10:50am Edited Date/Time 2/15/2021 10:52am
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM will be pretty light and flickable too.
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blaze 57
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2/15/2021 11:55am
lostboy819 wrote:
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM...
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM will be pretty light and flickable too.
Thanks!
Moto520
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2/15/2021 11:59am
KTM will be tighter turning and quicker handling.
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2/15/2021 12:01pm
lostboy819 wrote:
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM...
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM will be pretty light and flickable too.
Interesting, I have the opposite opinion. Ridden a bunch of small bore YZ's, KTM's, and CR's. The YZ is the slowest turning of the bunch IMO. Initial turn in and keeping good drive through nuts is noticeably better on the KTM for me. The YZ feels a little heavier and sluggish. It is still an amazing bike and very competitive, but the KTM is better in almost every aspect, including handling.
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The Shop

2/15/2021 12:02pm
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The ktm is a little sharper it dives to the inside line better. The yz still favors sliding in with the rear wheel more.

The suspension either I'm not good enough to notice or people have rose tinted glasses on. The 21 ktm's are a lot more plush than they used to be. The yz's suspension is good but so is the new ktm stuff especially on the 21's. The yz used to have a clear advantage not so much anymore.

Engine wise it's ktm once you fix the overly rich slide n needle. Otherwise it's a burbling mess down low stock. Ergo's the yz is definitely early 2000's still really good. But after riding newer bikes you begin to notice.

Can't go wrong with either one.
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blaze 57
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2/15/2021 12:11pm
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The...
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The ktm is a little sharper it dives to the inside line better. The yz still favors sliding in with the rear wheel more.

The suspension either I'm not good enough to notice or people have rose tinted glasses on. The 21 ktm's are a lot more plush than they used to be. The yz's suspension is good but so is the new ktm stuff especially on the 21's. The yz used to have a clear advantage not so much anymore.

Engine wise it's ktm once you fix the overly rich slide n needle. Otherwise it's a burbling mess down low stock. Ergo's the yz is definitely early 2000's still really good. But after riding newer bikes you begin to notice.

Can't go wrong with either one.
I'm seriously looking at 2021 KTM 150 but what specifically do you need to do to the slide and needle for the overly rich low end? Thanks for the heads up.
seth505
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2/15/2021 12:54pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2021 12:54pm
lostboy819 wrote:
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM...
YZ for sure but the KTM has a better motor. Cant beat a Yamaha in the stock suspension and handling ,being they are 125s the KTM will be pretty light and flickable too.
By handling do you mean stability? The KTM turns better.
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2/15/2021 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/15/2021 1:29pm
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The...
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The ktm is a little sharper it dives to the inside line better. The yz still favors sliding in with the rear wheel more.

The suspension either I'm not good enough to notice or people have rose tinted glasses on. The 21 ktm's are a lot more plush than they used to be. The yz's suspension is good but so is the new ktm stuff especially on the 21's. The yz used to have a clear advantage not so much anymore.

Engine wise it's ktm once you fix the overly rich slide n needle. Otherwise it's a burbling mess down low stock. Ergo's the yz is definitely early 2000's still really good. But after riding newer bikes you begin to notice.

Can't go wrong with either one.
blaze 57 wrote:
I'm seriously looking at 2021 KTM 150 but what specifically do you need to do to the slide and needle for the overly rich low end...
I'm seriously looking at 2021 KTM 150 but what specifically do you need to do to the slide and needle for the overly rich low end? Thanks for the heads up.
This was recommended by another forum member on here. I'm also going to be re gearing my 150sx and put a 14t front sprocket on it. The extra power of the bigger bore makes the lower gears spin up to fast and you end up short shifting. I had to do this to my 06 yz125 when I had it 144'd.

It makes it so much better when you do this on the 144/150. You can rev each gear out higher and your not short shifting it as much. It also makes it easier to ride. Even mxa recommended this way back on the 2016 150sx test. It's still online so you can read what they say about the gearing.

This pic attached is the jetting that will make your ktm run better. Basically the slide and needle are too rich. Stock slide is a #4 which is the richest slide available for the mikuni tmx. The needle recommended is 3 sizes leaner than stock. It's the same needle as the 05+ yz125 that's recommended. Ironically the new 125 xc comes with this needle stock and an s7 nozzle. But even those are still to rich on the slide. The xc still coming with a #4 slide.


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Schlava
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2/15/2021 3:37pm
KTM. I have had both in the last two years. YZ more stable on straightaways. Takes a lot to move the yz off line. Ktm turns better the tighter it is. They are still both very nimble. KTM is like XC mtb bike with steep head angle. YZ feels like more enduro mtb with slacker hta.
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Lightning78
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2/15/2021 4:56pm
Schlava wrote:
KTM. I have had both in the last two years. YZ more stable on straightaways. Takes a lot to move the yz off line. Ktm turns...
KTM. I have had both in the last two years. YZ more stable on straightaways. Takes a lot to move the yz off line. Ktm turns better the tighter it is. They are still both very nimble. KTM is like XC mtb bike with steep head angle. YZ feels like more enduro mtb with slacker hta.
Thats basically every YZ I've ever rdden lol
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AH387
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2/15/2021 7:28pm
If you are used to Yamahas, then the YZ will feel great. For some it is a preference thing. But the KTM does corner sharper, and feel more nimble/lighter. But it's a 125, so it's not like either is hard to turn. For some reason I just prefer the feel of Yam 2strokes (both 125 and 250.) I also have a Husky 350, so its not like I dislike them. Just prefer the Yam 2strokes.
Bruneval
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2/15/2021 10:58pm
I own both. Only think the YZ beats the KTM with is the suspension out of the box.
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Motofinne
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2/15/2021 11:27pm
KTM/Husky/GasGas does everything better except the forks.
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MxKing809
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2/16/2021 4:57am
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The...
They both are flickable and handle great. I came off an 06 yz125/144 I owned for 15 years. I got a 21 ktm 150sx now. The ktm is a little sharper it dives to the inside line better. The yz still favors sliding in with the rear wheel more.

The suspension either I'm not good enough to notice or people have rose tinted glasses on. The 21 ktm's are a lot more plush than they used to be. The yz's suspension is good but so is the new ktm stuff especially on the 21's. The yz used to have a clear advantage not so much anymore.

Engine wise it's ktm once you fix the overly rich slide n needle. Otherwise it's a burbling mess down low stock. Ergo's the yz is definitely early 2000's still really good. But after riding newer bikes you begin to notice.

Can't go wrong with either one.
Nailed the jetting analysis.

Anyone with a 150. Look into notching the slide. It cleans up that small gargle off throttle crack without having to lean the pilot or needle out.

This is pretty aggressive. I went for about a third of that amount.


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AH387
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2/16/2021 5:19am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2021 6:52am
Motofinne wrote:
KTM/Husky/GasGas does everything better except the forks.
you could add: YZ is better stability, jetting, easier to ride power with more recovery etc....

Also, I think people way over play the whole "it's not a modern chassis" thing. It's a 2stroke and a 125 at that. Can you not hit the inside line on it? Because you should be able to hop onto either of these bikes and toss it around like a mountain bike. The YZ was never a cornering monster and in the 2stroke world, that isn't a big deal because they are all very easy to turn/flick (compared to a 4stroke.) Also, the old RM125 and CR125 chassis handles great and those frame are older than the current YZ. But I don't ever hear anyone talk about them being based on "old designs." It's all preference but I think that topic is way overplayed. The KTM's main strength is it's peak hp is absolutely amazing. I don't find the chassis to be an advantage as much as a preference thing (especially when suspension is factored in.)
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2/16/2021 5:36am
i m a die hard yamaha fan, i own several YZ125, 250s...
The YZ125 was the best 125 money could buy for a long time, but the newer KTM Suspension (air forks) and their latest engine are the reasons these bikes are the faster ones!

For the YZ: Reliablitiy- just have a look at lokal tracks/races and see how many old YZ125 are still around and have a look for any older KTM 125s...
These YZs are nearly bulletproof, great engine characteristics, suspension is great, handling is great- but its a at least 15year old bike, geometry its based on the older steel frame bikes which are mid/end 90s bikes...
It took KTM a long long time to get their 125 on this level- but now they are ahead.
Lets just see and wait for the development on the new fantic 125s based on the YZ platform
digger
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2/16/2021 6:52am
MxKing809 wrote:
Nailed the jetting analysis. Anyone with a 150. Look into notching the slide. It cleans up that small gargle off throttle crack without having to lean...
Nailed the jetting analysis.

Anyone with a 150. Look into notching the slide. It cleans up that small gargle off throttle crack without having to lean the pilot or needle out.

This is pretty aggressive. I went for about a third of that amount.


This is not correct. The notch that you have pictured actually increases the efficiency of the pilot circuit, which in turn will necessitate a leaner pilot. BTW, that notch looks fairly accurate to what I would recommend and use in the slides that I have cut, which in most cases require a leaner pilot. The section of the slide that you want to cut to lean out the slide is the opposite side, The halfmoon shaped section.
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MxKing809
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2/16/2021 6:54am
MxKing809 wrote:
Nailed the jetting analysis. Anyone with a 150. Look into notching the slide. It cleans up that small gargle off throttle crack without having to lean...
Nailed the jetting analysis.

Anyone with a 150. Look into notching the slide. It cleans up that small gargle off throttle crack without having to lean the pilot or needle out.

This is pretty aggressive. I went for about a third of that amount.


digger wrote:
This is not correct. The notch that you have pictured actually increases the efficiency of the pilot circuit, which in turn will necessitate a leaner pilot...
This is not correct. The notch that you have pictured actually increases the efficiency of the pilot circuit, which in turn will necessitate a leaner pilot. BTW, that notch looks fairly accurate to what I would recommend and use in the slides that I have cut, which in most cases require a leaner pilot. The section of the slide that you want to cut to lean out the slide is the opposite side, The halfmoon shaped section.
Good catch. I did this 6 months ago or so, and just googled for an image. Not realizing it was the opposite side of the slide.

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