Filming Moto (Camera question)

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8/8/2021 6:41 PM

Ok so basically I want to Film moto as a side hobby/2ndary income if possible (moto will be main, but other sports as well) with that said I'm not looking for any old camera, I want it to be Cinematic.

I did some googling and the general consensus is film with a gopro, I already have two of those and it's still not exactly the quality I want.

I was looking at a:
Z CAM E2-S6 Super 35 6K Cinema, 2500$
Or
Black Magic pocket cinema 6k pro, 2499$
Or
Something cheaper that I just don't know about.

Anyway any help will be greatly appreciated.

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"Life is Too Short To Last Long"

8/8/2021 7:18 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/8/2021 7:19 PM

I do film making full time. Mostly in the editing world, but cinematography is a close second. For the price it's hard to beat the Lumix GH5. The batteries last longer, they're sealed so they survive dust well, and the color matches high end RED cameras well so they're easier for clients to buy clips from or to be a B camera to a RED A camera.

The two cameras you've listed are great but require a pretty solid knowledge in post production work i.e. color correcting in order to make them worth while.

I would say buy a GH5 and spend the extra money on a proper lens. That is what sets a lot of video work apart.

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8/8/2021 10:26 PM

robotsfrom wrote:

I do film making full time. Mostly in the editing world, but cinematography is a close second. For the price it's hard to beat ...more

Thats something I don't know much about color correction/ post production etc... I'm literally a rookie with this, but I figure I should get some decent equipment to start to help me in my development/ deficiency in skills for the starting stages.

I Googled the Lumix and it seems like a bargain compared to some of the other stuff I seen lol.

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"Life is Too Short To Last Long"

8/8/2021 10:30 PM

+1 on getting a good lens, it makes the world of difference!

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8/8/2021 11:38 PM

have a look at the sony rx100vii

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8/9/2021 5:08 AM

Any of those that you listed will require a pretty decent computer if you want to use the highest quality footage and edit it efficiently. You could always shoot in a lower resolution but it is something you should consider, its a pain to try and edit footage wen it skips every few seconds in post. I would certainly not write off the GH5 as said above or even something in the Sony a7 line or a9 if you want to spend a little extra. But as everyone says the lens is the key. I use a 70/200 f2 for pretty much everything moto and a shorter lens when I am doing B-Roll or interviews etc ect.

Good luck!

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8/9/2021 6:58 AM

The black magic is a great camera and you can get some surprisingly good shots with it. But like the others said, the lens is super important.

Lens wise I’d suggest 70-200 and 24-70. The Sigma art series less as less expensive than Canon and just as good,if not better IMO.

But back to camera, black magic will give you more slow motion options and have the feel of using something closer to a RED camera. GH5 is great and A7s is great also, just less slow motion options beside real-time and 60p.

In the end starting with the right gear is great, but how you shoot will be 90% of it. So get something you can afford and just start cranking away, you can always upgrade later when you out grow it.

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8/9/2021 8:36 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 8:38 AM

robotsfrom wrote:

I do film making full time. Mostly in the editing world, but cinematography is a close second. For the price it's hard to beat ...more

Motodave15 wrote:

Thats something I don't know much about color correction/ post production etc... I'm literally a rookie with this, but I ...more

I like to post edit with Final Cut Pro X which is a Mac only editor. But it seems like the popular program to use now is Adobe Premiere which is Windows or Mac. Either programs would be good choices, and both have a lot of tutorial videos online. With that said, I am using a lower spec'd macbook pro from 2012 and it handles 1080 videos with no problem. I don't shoot in 4K so I don't worry about it... for now. The new 13" macbook pros with the M1 chip claim they can handle 4k video editing. I played with one at best buy with the preloaded videos and it seemed OK, but I feel those videos are always staged to give the best performance in the store.. So you mentioned 6k cameras in the original post. That will probably need a REALLY healthy computer to process.

As far as cameras go, the ones you listed, in my unprofessional opinion, are AWESOME. However, the others that have posted on here have mentioned some good cameras that are less expensive and would be good options like the GH5 that Robotsfrom mentioned. You could also save extra money by buying a good used camera on FB marketplace as well. Look at low end cameras and then youtube them. There are some cool videos of videographers challenging themselves with using low end cameras and creating really nice video them just to prove that you don't need a $5k camera to create good video.

With practice you can make a low end camera look good, and once you get really good, you can make a nice camera look spectacular. The point being here is, work on YOU before you jump knee deep into a $5,000 camera setup.

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8/9/2021 10:15 AM

I'm going to start dabbling into video as well after shooting stills my whole life. One camera not mentioned here is the Canon R6 which has a great AF system. The R6 is a great stills camera and I believe it might be a solid video camera as well but maybe some others can confirm? It can be had for $2100 through the Canon CLP program which is a great value. I bought one at that price and you can't beat it. I shoot 1DXII's and 1DXIII's and the little R6 is right there with them.

I'll be using FCPX on a Mac once I get started. I guess I'll watch tutorials on how to setup the libraries/etc, but before I start importing I would like to start culling video clips to save disk space. Here's a few questions I have for the video editors:

1. If I have 30 second clips that I only want to keep 3-5 seconds from, how do you trim that clip and delete the rest of the clip for good before you import into FCP? I shot some massive R5 4K 120fps clips recently and I want to trim those clips down to save hundreds of gigs of HD space. is there an easy way to do this before opening FCPX? I believe FCPX will just keep all clips in place and only show the portions of the clip you highlight for your project.

2. If I'm shooting video with R5 and R6 and I have a mixture of R5 4k 60 & 120 and R6 1080p 120, can these be edited together to look good even though the R6 120 was shot in 1080?

3. Do you guys have any good recommendations for folder structure templates on how to setup your libraries? Meaning, if you were starting from scratch how would you organize your video files and folder structures before you open FCP or Premiere?

4.I shoot very shallow DOF so if you are supposed to use the 180 degree rule for video then I'm assuming you are all using a ton of ND filters for video when using large apertures correct?



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8/9/2021 10:27 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 12:54 PM

I'll never understand why people are trying to edit in full resolution. Use Final Cut, Premier, Resolve, or Avid Media Composer (I prefer Avid) and transcode to a lower file size like dnx36 which is a 1080 file, but doesn't bog the system down anywhere close to what a 4k or 6k file will do.

Just transcode, edit, and then re-link to the higher res footage and output to whatever format you want with compressor.

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8/9/2021 10:33 AM

avidchimp wrote:

I'll never understand why people are trying to edit in full resolution. Use Final Cut, Premier, Resolve, or Avid Media ...more

My work from home when I don't go into the office set-up. Photo

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8/9/2021 11:27 AM

avidchimp wrote:

I'll never understand why people are trying to edit in full resolution. Use Final Cut, Premier, Resolve, or Avid Media ...more

When you say transcode are you referring to creating proxy files? Also, if you want to output 4K but have some 1080p you want to mix in is there an option to uprez the 1080 into 4k for final output?

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8/9/2021 11:48 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 11:50 AM

robotsfrom wrote:

I do film making full time. Mostly in the editing world, but cinematography is a close second. For the price it's hard to beat ...more

Motodave15 wrote:

Thats something I don't know much about color correction/ post production etc... I'm literally a rookie with this, but I ...more

I’ve got the Lumix G7 (a slight step up from the GH5) and it’s a fantastic device! Here’s a video I just posted; the tripod shots are my G7, the handhelds are my professional Panasonic news camera for work. Quality dropped a bit when I ripped it from work and posted it to insta, but I think it gives a good idea of how comparable the shot can be:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSW69tWH__L/?utm_medium=copy_link

Two gripes: I bought an extra long lens with it, but I wish I had sprung for a stabilized lens instead. I don’t have the steadiest hands, so shooting freehand is pretty rough and it doesn’t have internal stabilization, and using a tripod at the track frankly sucks. Also, because it’s a point and shoot, I find it a bit awkward to handle compared to a true camcorder shaped video cam. Good news is these can be addressed by spending a bit of $$$$ on a new lens and some housing with more helpful handles. Good luck! You really can’t go wrong with the choices you’ve listed imo, if I had the money to blow I would go for a true video cam but the DSLRs can do the job no problem.

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8/9/2021 12:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 12:18 PM

avidchimp wrote:

I'll never understand why people are trying to edit in full resolution. Use Final Cut, Premier, Resolve, or Avid Media ...more

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

When you say transcode are you referring to creating proxy files? Also, if you want to output 4K but have some 1080p you want ...more

Yeah, making proxy's for offline editing use so your computer isn't trying to cache giant files and play them back. You can upres 1080 to 4k technically, but it will always be 1080 quality. You can transcode the 1080 when you are doing the other files, then re-link all footage for output so everything is as close to native files as possible. Most prosumer editing software can deal with mixed resolutions while offline editing.

Full discloser, I only use Media Composer and it will do all of what I mentioned. Resolve is the second best option in my opinion because of it's built in color correction abilities.

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8/9/2021 12:30 PM

avidchimp wrote:

I'll never understand why people are trying to edit in full resolution. Use Final Cut, Premier, Resolve, or Avid Media ...more

Black Diesel Bomber wrote:

When you say transcode are you referring to creating proxy files? Also, if you want to output 4K but have some 1080p you want ...more

avidchimp wrote:

Yeah, making proxy's for offline editing use so your computer isn't trying to cache giant files and play them back. You can ...more

Oh great, now you just threw something else into the equation...

FCP
Adobe Premiere
Avid Media Composer
DaVinci Resolve

Which one do you think is the easiest for someone getting started?

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8/9/2021 12:45 PM

Like I said earlier, I am partial to Avid since I have used it for 24 years, but they are all good in their own ways. I'd say Premier, Resolve, or Avid. Those three all have free versions to play with.

Here is a link to Media Composer First. It's limited in what it can do with transitions and VFX, but it is rock solid. Resolve has much better color correction tools.

https://my.avid.com/get/media-composer-first

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8/9/2021 2:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/9/2021 2:15 PM

Motodave15 wrote:

Ok so basically I want to Film moto as a side hobby/2ndary income if possible (moto will be main, but other sports as well) ...more

Throwing my .02 cents out there.

Depending on what you expect your clientele to be, the BMPCC is a great camera but the turnaround time on color correction/grading will add quite a bit of time. Not great if you're starting off doing event-based content that requires a quicker turnaround time. For example, if you shot Lorettas and needed to get stuff out the same day.

Turn around time also goes into having a camera/computer hardware that requires you to create proxies. Creating proxies is a pretty time-consuming task depending on how much you shoot in a day. I overshoot on the b-roll side of things and creating proxies is a hassle for me. So I've found the right combo of camera codec/computer hardware to make sure I dont get bogged down on that side of things.

If you're limited on budget, I would suggest buying a used GH5 body (less than $800 now) and use any extra money you may have on lenses. A 70-200 and a wider angle, 16-35, 17-40, etc is a must-have starting out. Plus, you mentioned being a rookie and a micro 4/3 like the GH5 is a pretty forgiving camera and it produces great video still.

Sites like lensauthority.com and lensrentals.com are great places to find used equipment. Safer than buying off of eBay.

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Desk Jockey by day. Lot lizard by night.

8/9/2021 5:09 PM

if you're that much of a rookie, don't get a BMD Camera, a RED, or anything else that doesn't have super fast auto focus. Your shots will be garbage because (I'm assuming) you are not a professional focus puller.

Get a Sony A7sIII, or a Sony FX3 (basically the same camera, but the FX3 is more video focused). Sony Autofocus is a step above everyone else.

I edit in FCPX on an M1 Mac and it handles 4k footage from the a7sIII with ease. if you don't have an M1 Mac, then listen to avidchimp and use proxy files to edit.

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8/9/2021 6:40 PM

on the editing side of things my PC should hopefully do it. Amd Ryzen 7, 3700x 8-core at 4ghz (Overclocked)...32GB of Ram.. 6 Terra-bytes of space and my Achilles heal of my machine Asus Nvidia 1060 lol (I'm still trying to get a-hold of a better gpu)

I have an adobe subscription now, however i do have Cyberlink PowerDirector which i used for a couple of mtb edits lol, But part of me doesn't believe anybody trying to make good cinematic clips uses that program.

I really like you guys idea of getting a cheaper camera and a better lenses, I just want to make sure i get something that has growth potential as i gain knowledge.

Thankyou all for the information so far, Im all aboard for Good Shaped Used Cameras so if anybody sees or knows anything let me know.

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"Life is Too Short To Last Long"

8/9/2021 11:03 PM

Motodave15 wrote:

on the editing side of things my PC should hopefully do it. Amd Ryzen 7, 3700x 8-core at 4ghz (Overclocked)...32GB of Ram.. 6 ...more

Based on what Kennyfreemoney said above I would definitely look at the Canon R6 based on the fact the expensive cameras he's suggesting above are very comparable in the AF department to the Canon R5, with Sony having a slight edge in AF for video.

With that said, the R6 has the same AF system as the R5 for much less $$$, so you are getting a very good AF system for video at the $2100 price point.

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