Bad KYB, Bad!

mjskier
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Edited Date/Time 9/18/2015 4:57pm
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cwtoyota
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9/17/2015 10:36pm
Maybe the manufacturers can afford to buy spring forks now that the prices will be dropping...

Tongue
Radical
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9/17/2015 11:09pm
Even though it's illegal, many manufacturers do it and get away from it.
Look at Game Consoles. They've been price fixing for decades.
Charper732
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9/18/2015 3:17am
Makes you wonder if Yamaha was one of the "co-conspirators" since they own 34% of KYB.
MxKing809
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9/18/2015 3:44am
Idk how I feel about this...... if they want to charge X and have someone pay it.... why is that a bad thing? Shame on the Manafactuers for not shopping around if they weren't happy with the price point.....

The Shop

newmann
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9/18/2015 4:23am
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
9/18/2015 4:45am
newmann wrote:
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive...
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
Man I'm buying a new grill for my new Tahoe and now don't feel bad at all after seeing the ford prices
Mike 29
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9/18/2015 5:11am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2015 5:17am
Most people aren't aware that HONDA is the majority owner of SHOWA. They also have been charged both corporately and criminally with price fixing. The plant in Sunbury OH manufactures all shocks for Harley as well as automotive products for Honda.

Its been an ongoing issue with almost ALL Japanese's auto parts manufactures at their US plants. There are quite a number of people in jail currently and $100's of millions in fines.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20141017/NEWS/141019881/former-sho…

nage0139
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9/18/2015 7:37am
Radical wrote:
Even though it's illegal, many manufacturers do it and get away from it.
Look at Game Consoles. They've been price fixing for decades.
Microsoft and Sony actually lose money or break even on game consoles. They make all their money on games and extra online content.
ML512
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9/18/2015 7:44am
Mike 29 wrote:
Most people aren't aware that HONDA is the majority owner of SHOWA. They also have been charged both corporately and criminally with price fixing. The plant...
Most people aren't aware that HONDA is the majority owner of SHOWA. They also have been charged both corporately and criminally with price fixing. The plant in Sunbury OH manufactures all shocks for Harley as well as automotive products for Honda.

Its been an ongoing issue with almost ALL Japanese's auto parts manufactures at their US plants. There are quite a number of people in jail currently and $100's of millions in fines.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20141017/NEWS/141019881/former-sho…

Actually, Honda owns the majority of Showa USA, not Showa Corporation.
9/18/2015 7:51am
I did not see anything about motorcycle suspensions just automotive. Price fixing? Every manufacture fixes their prices, its called suggested retail price.
Radical
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9/18/2015 8:05am
Radical wrote:
Even though it's illegal, many manufacturers do it and get away from it.
Look at Game Consoles. They've been price fixing for decades.
nage0139 wrote:
Microsoft and Sony actually lose money or break even on game consoles. They make all their money on games and extra online content.
I know. I believe the retailers make money on them though. It's still price fixing.
ML512
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9/18/2015 8:10am
Radical wrote:
Even though it's illegal, many manufacturers do it and get away from it.
Look at Game Consoles. They've been price fixing for decades.
nage0139 wrote:
Microsoft and Sony actually lose money or break even on game consoles. They make all their money on games and extra online content.
Radical wrote:
I know. I believe the retailers make money on them though. It's still price fixing.
Retailers have to make money... Huh
Radical
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9/18/2015 8:27am
nage0139 wrote:
Microsoft and Sony actually lose money or break even on game consoles. They make all their money on games and extra online content.
Radical wrote:
I know. I believe the retailers make money on them though. It's still price fixing.
ML512 wrote:
Retailers have to make money... Huh
Of course retailers need to make money.
Console pricing has been set in stone since the NES, A retailer cannot change the price, period.
I believe this is illegal.
I don't know if anyone is upset about it. i'm not. But it does prevent competition based on price.

My point is simply that KYB is not the only company out there that is fixing prices.
9/18/2015 9:46am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2015 9:47am
Great news for yamaha. It'll be cheaper to stick with that SSS. No sense in going another rioute if they're 34% vested and the company just paid 62 million.....

I'm happy. Woohoo


Would the factory edition KTMS be considered fixing prices ?
ML512
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9/18/2015 9:59am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2015 9:59am
Radical wrote:
I know. I believe the retailers make money on them though. It's still price fixing.
ML512 wrote:
Retailers have to make money... Huh
Radical wrote:
Of course retailers need to make money. Console pricing has been set in stone since the NES, A retailer cannot change the price, period. I believe...
Of course retailers need to make money.
Console pricing has been set in stone since the NES, A retailer cannot change the price, period.
I believe this is illegal.
I don't know if anyone is upset about it. i'm not. But it does prevent competition based on price.

My point is simply that KYB is not the only company out there that is fixing prices.
It's a term called MAP (minimum advertised pricing) and it's practically in every industry. Some motocross apparel and aftermarket companies do it, it's an industry standard in the camera world these days too, so-on and so-forth.
Tpog496
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9/18/2015 10:03am
newmann wrote:
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive...
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
Man I'm buying a new grill for my new Tahoe and now don't feel bad at all after seeing the ford prices
Aftermarket bro's
jtiger12
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9/18/2015 10:42am Edited Date/Time 9/18/2015 10:44am
newmann wrote:
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive...
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
freeh
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9/18/2015 11:09am
Mike 29 wrote:
Most people aren't aware that HONDA is the majority owner of SHOWA. They also have been charged both corporately and criminally with price fixing. The plant...
Most people aren't aware that HONDA is the majority owner of SHOWA. They also have been charged both corporately and criminally with price fixing. The plant in Sunbury OH manufactures all shocks for Harley as well as automotive products for Honda.

Its been an ongoing issue with almost ALL Japanese's auto parts manufactures at their US plants. There are quite a number of people in jail currently and $100's of millions in fines.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20141017/NEWS/141019881/former-sho…

ML512 wrote:
Actually, Honda owns the majority of Showa USA, not Showa Corporation.
Honda owns just over 33% of Showa Corporation. Next largest shareholder is around 6%.
Zracer
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9/18/2015 11:33am
I did not see anything about motorcycle suspensions just automotive. Price fixing? Every manufacture fixes their prices, its called suggested retail price.
No, actually its called collusion and its illegal.
Zracer
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9/18/2015 11:41am
MxKing809 wrote:
Idk how I feel about this...... if they want to charge X and have someone pay it.... why is that a bad thing? Shame on the...
Idk how I feel about this...... if they want to charge X and have someone pay it.... why is that a bad thing? Shame on the Manafactuers for not shopping around if they weren't happy with the price point.....
So if the big six bike manufacturers sat in a room and decided that the price of new bikes would be between 12- 13 K , no competition or base in cost, how would you feel about that ?
Falcon
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9/18/2015 11:55am
CR250Rider wrote:
Sooo, who were the co-conspirators??????
This.

You guys are getting "fixed price" or "MAP Pricing" confused with price fixing.
Setting an MSRP or setting a fixed price for retailers, i.e., "you may not sell this at any price lower than $X" is not illegal. It is an attempt to solidify the brand value. Similarly, MAP pricing sets a price minimum that may be advertised by retailers. They may sell below that but not advertise that they do.

Price fixing, however, is when two or more competitors agree not to compete with one another and agree to hold their prices at artificially high levels to make more profit. That kind of collusion is illegal, kids.
A perfect example would be if KTM, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki all agreed that 450 MX bikes would now cost $25,000 for dealers to purchase. No matter how much the dealers wanted to undercut each other (and are free to do,) an MX bike would cost you $25,000 + dealer's profit and tax. The market wouldn't be able to shift to another brand because they would all be in kahoots to keep the prices up, and the $8,000 MX450 would be a thing of the past.
Charper732
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9/18/2015 12:33pm
So what you are saying is that the co conspirators are other suspension companies? And in guessing they would have to be major companies like a showa or eibach or something...wonder why they didnt name the others accused.
hvaughn88
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9/18/2015 12:35pm
MxKing809 wrote:
Idk how I feel about this...... if they want to charge X and have someone pay it.... why is that a bad thing? Shame on the...
Idk how I feel about this...... if they want to charge X and have someone pay it.... why is that a bad thing? Shame on the Manafactuers for not shopping around if they weren't happy with the price point.....
Zracer wrote:
So if the big six bike manufacturers sat in a room and decided that the price of new bikes would be between 12- 13 K...
So if the big six bike manufacturers sat in a room and decided that the price of new bikes would be between 12- 13 K , no competition or base in cost, how would you feel about that ?
I wouldn't buy one. Pretty simple.
cwtoyota
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9/18/2015 12:38pm
CR250Rider wrote:
Sooo, who were the co-conspirators??????
Falcon wrote:
This. You guys are getting "fixed price" or "MAP Pricing" confused with price fixing. Setting an MSRP or setting a fixed price for retailers, i.e., "you...
This.

You guys are getting "fixed price" or "MAP Pricing" confused with price fixing.
Setting an MSRP or setting a fixed price for retailers, i.e., "you may not sell this at any price lower than $X" is not illegal. It is an attempt to solidify the brand value. Similarly, MAP pricing sets a price minimum that may be advertised by retailers. They may sell below that but not advertise that they do.

Price fixing, however, is when two or more competitors agree not to compete with one another and agree to hold their prices at artificially high levels to make more profit. That kind of collusion is illegal, kids.
A perfect example would be if KTM, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha and Suzuki all agreed that 450 MX bikes would now cost $25,000 for dealers to purchase. No matter how much the dealers wanted to undercut each other (and are free to do,) an MX bike would cost you $25,000 + dealer's profit and tax. The market wouldn't be able to shift to another brand because they would all be in kahoots to keep the prices up, and the $8,000 MX450 would be a thing of the past.
Falcon, thank you for posting that in such simple terms...

I was about to say something similar after reading MXKing809's comment above about shopping around. The point is that shopping around does no good for auto-manufacturers (and consumers) when the suspension companies have pre-arranged their prices.

newmann
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9/18/2015 12:45pm
newmann wrote:
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive...
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
Man I'm buying a new grill for my new Tahoe and now don't feel bad at all after seeing the ford prices
Tpog496 wrote:
Aftermarket bro's
Yes, because when someone runs into your new vehicle you want them to replace your high quality OEM part with a $12.00 part from China. Huh
newmann
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9/18/2015 12:47pm
newmann wrote:
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive...
A plastic grille for a late model Ford F150 is $1200.00, taillamp is $885.00. Lexus IS250 grille EMBLEM is $1325.00.....no price fixing there, just a captive audience.
jtiger12 wrote:
Then the customers Intelligent Brake Assist will no longer work.

Tpog496
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9/18/2015 1:57pm
Man I'm buying a new grill for my new Tahoe and now don't feel bad at all after seeing the ford prices
Tpog496 wrote:
Aftermarket bro's
newmann wrote:
Yes, because when someone runs into your new vehicle you want them to replace your high quality OEM part with a $12.00 part from China. Huh
Where do you think the oem grilles are made?
cwtoyota
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9/18/2015 2:32pm
Tpog496 wrote:
Aftermarket bro's
newmann wrote:
Yes, because when someone runs into your new vehicle you want them to replace your high quality OEM part with a $12.00 part from China. Huh
Tpog496 wrote:
Where do you think the oem grilles are made?
Some of them do come from China, but most of the time, even when OEM parts were made in China there is still a difference in quality vs. an aftermarket replacement part. OEM is often superior.

Quality control is the big part of what most low end manufacturing lacks. Most of the well known OEM's can get high quality parts out of China (and other countries known for similar low cost / low quality) because they implement tighter quality control standards and procedures.

The aftermarket stuff is typically not nearly as tightly controlled by the importer. They are trying to get a decent looking product on the shelf for the lowest possible price so they rely on the offshore manufacturer to do their quality control.
bob567
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9/18/2015 3:22pm
WP Cone Valve Forks and TRAX shock. If you want the real shit.

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