250T or 450??

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1/22/2018 5:31 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/22/2018 5:31 AM

Are there any good NEW 250 TS bikes still being sold? And what would be better for the typical vet rider? I hate the idea of mixing the gas and oil again, but I LOVE the idea of having a two stroke. The 450 would be easier to deal with from day to day, but the maintenance is more expensive and intensive correct?

Im thinking about getting a 17 or 18 CRF450R, YZF450 or maybe some brand of 250TS. Who really makes one worth buying? Yamaha, KTM and Husky only?? What are the opinions? I keep reading the YZ250 is basically a 2005 model that has been lightly refreshed. I hear the KTM and Husky 250s are nice and seem updated for todays tech. But Im not sure if its worth spending the premium money on a two stroke KTM.

I sold my 17 KTM 250F a few days ago and have money burning a hole in my pocket.

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1/22/2018 5:37 AM

If you plan on racing against other 450s, I’d recommend getting a 450. If you’re trail rider or you ride on tracks and don’t race, get whatever makes you happy.

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1/22/2018 5:38 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/22/2018 5:41 AM

The 2017 and 2018 SX 250 is an amazing machine. I got to ride the 2018 SX 250 at a demo day last summer and it was the most fun that i have ever had on a MX track.

But it's still a competitive bike against the 450s. Yeah you will suffer on the starts but other than that, you should be able to keep up with 450s without problems on most tracks.

I would pick a SX or TC over a YZ any day.

My next bike will be a SX 250.

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1/22/2018 5:43 AM

I MAY race here and there, not shooting for a podium finish either...lol. I plan on lots of practice days and tons of trails. But I want an MX bike.

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1/22/2018 5:46 AM

Stuff a 1000cc street bike motor in it.

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1/22/2018 5:47 AM

What are you going to do with it? Race? Whatever you want. Race competitively? 450. If you are racing competitively then I doubt you'd be on here asking. Offroad and trails mostly? 300 KTM or Husky. Track and trail? Do what I did and get an FX350.

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1/22/2018 5:49 AM

I've had a YZ250 for years without any problem. Most reliable bike I've every owned.
Now I have a TC250. Couldn't be more happy. Wouldn't trade her for any 450.

But that's a matter of taste. It really depends on you. Some people could never be happy on a 250 2T. And vice versa

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1/22/2018 6:03 AM

ZXMustang wrote:

I MAY race here and there, not shooting for a podium finish either...lol. I plan on lots of practice days and tons of trails. But I want an MX bike.

Well then you should jump into your vehicle and head to the closest KTM or Husqvarna dealer and get a 250 haha!

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1/22/2018 6:09 AM

Motofinne wrote:

The 2017 and 2018 SX 250 is an amazing machine. I got to ride the 2018 SX 250 at a demo day last summer and it was the most fun that i have ever had on a MX track.

But it's still a competitive bike against the 450s. Yeah you will suffer on the starts but other than that, you should be able to keep up with 450s without problems on most tracks.

I would pick a SX or TC over a YZ any day.

My next bike will be a SX 250.

I have an '18 250 SX and have to agree with everything Motofinne said.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

1/22/2018 6:12 AM

kzizok wrote:

Stuff a 1000cc street bike motor in it.

Agreed! Or get off vital and ride. It’s not the bike. It’s your right wrist.

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1/22/2018 6:22 AM

kzizok wrote:

Stuff a 1000cc street bike motor in it.

Wells423 wrote:

Agreed! Or get off vital and ride. It’s not the bike. It’s your right wrist.

But in all honesty ride a 350 if you can. Great bike for vet riders. My buddy has a 17 husky 250 2t and it’s an awesome bike too just be ready to blow a few turns until you get used to no engine brake. I race locally in the 30+ class and 250fs 450fs 350fs 125s 250s all win and the guys who are winning can do so on any bike. Just find what suits you the best and run it.

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1/22/2018 6:40 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/22/2018 6:41 AM

I'd like to stick to a 450. I want to lug it around and not worry about hitting rev limiter on jump faces. That scares the shit out of me. Or missing shifts/hitting N at take off. Thats disaster for even the pros. I feel like a 450 would allow me to ride hard without all the drama from revving the piss out of it. That was part of the problem with my 17 KTM 250f. Sure it makes 44hp, but it does so at 13k RPM. Its harder than you think to rev it out to get peak power, without hitting the limiter. Its not something I want to do in my old age (38). A big crash could ruin my family's life. I think I can still have fun and jump the big stuff without being on the gas 100%. On the trails the 250f was not fun either. Lots more clutch slipping to get it to turn hard. Im thinking the 250ts might not be the best here. But again, Ive never ridden one compared to the 450.

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1/22/2018 6:44 AM

ZXMustang wrote:

Are there any good NEW 250 TS bikes still being sold? And what would be better for the typical vet rider? I hate the idea of mixing the gas and oil again, but I LOVE the idea of having a two stroke. The 450 would be easier to deal with from day to day, but the maintenance is more expensive and intensive correct?

Im thinking about getting a 17 or 18 CRF450R, YZF450 or maybe some brand of 250TS. Who really makes one worth buying? Yamaha, KTM and Husky only?? What are the opinions? I keep reading the YZ250 is basically a 2005 model that has been lightly refreshed. I hear the KTM and Husky 250s are nice and seem updated for todays tech. But Im not sure if its worth spending the premium money on a two stroke KTM.

I sold my 17 KTM 250F a few days ago and have money burning a hole in my pocket.

Yz250x. It will do it all.

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1/22/2018 6:45 AM

Yeah, mixing oil and fuel together is a deal killer. It's so difficult. I just did it the other day and it took me 20 seconds of pouring oil and 30 seconds of shaking the can. I was so wore out I couldn't ride.

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1/22/2018 6:49 AM

Harry Backmon wrote:

Yeah, mixing oil and fuel together is a deal killer. It's so difficult. I just did it the other day and it took me 20 seconds of pouring oil and 30 seconds of shaking the can. I was so wore out I couldn't ride.

It has nothing to do with effort. But keeping fuel/oil around can be tedious. On the flip side, stopping at a station on the way to the track and just putting gas directly into the bike as well as the truck at the same time and then driving off is a nice luxury. I have no issues with mixing. It just sucks though. Its like running E85 in my car. Its a pain to keep up with making sure I have enough on hand.

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1/22/2018 6:58 AM

Why are you running E85 in your car? Sounds like you want a 450, you will probably be disappointed with the power a 250t makes, its nothing compared to a streetbike.

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1/22/2018 7:01 AM

I think you should get an alta.

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1/22/2018 7:03 AM

early wrote:

Why are you running E85 in your car? Sounds like you want a 450, you will probably be disappointed with the power a 250t makes, its nothing compared to a streetbike.

My car is tuned to run on E85 for boost. E85 has much higher octane ratings than gas, and its $1.70 a gallon. But finding stations can be challenging.

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1/22/2018 7:05 AM

Yes the KTM/Husky smokers are more updated and modern but a YZ250 is still a great bike too.

The pros and cons of 2 vs 4 have been beat to death over and over. All the information is out there. You just need to make a decision for yourself.

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1/22/2018 7:08 AM

early wrote:

Why are you running E85 in your car? Sounds like you want a 450, you will probably be disappointed with the power a 250t makes, its nothing compared to a streetbike.

ZXMustang wrote:

My car is tuned to run on E85 for boost. E85 has much higher octane ratings than gas, and its $1.70 a gallon. But finding stations can be challenging.

I see. Did you tune it for E85 yourself? I thought they were only E85 "safe" from the factory (gaskets and intake tune)

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1/22/2018 7:17 AM

early wrote:

Why are you running E85 in your car? Sounds like you want a 450, you will probably be disappointed with the power a 250t makes, its nothing compared to a streetbike.

ZXMustang wrote:

My car is tuned to run on E85 for boost. E85 has much higher octane ratings than gas, and its $1.70 a gallon. But finding stations can be challenging.

early wrote:

I see. Did you tune it for E85 yourself? I thought they were only E85 "safe" from the factory (gaskets and intake tune)

Custom tuned, or as its pronounced in this community "remapped".

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1/22/2018 7:29 AM

Harry Backmon wrote:

Yeah, mixing oil and fuel together is a deal killer. It's so difficult. I just did it the other day and it took me 20 seconds of pouring oil and 30 seconds of shaking the can. I was so wore out I couldn't ride.

ZXMustang wrote:

It has nothing to do with effort. But keeping fuel/oil around can be tedious. On the flip side, stopping at a station on the way to the track and just putting gas directly into the bike as well as the truck at the same time and then driving off is a nice luxury. I have no issues with mixing. It just sucks though. Its like running E85 in my car. Its a pain to keep up with making sure I have enough on hand.

I have to admit that does sound pretty good. Not having to go out of my to purchase race fuel would also be nice. However, I'm a 2 stroke rider. Always have been.

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1/22/2018 7:40 AM

Harry Backmon wrote:

Yeah, mixing oil and fuel together is a deal killer. It's so difficult. I just did it the other day and it took me 20 seconds of pouring oil and 30 seconds of shaking the can. I was so wore out I couldn't ride.

ZXMustang wrote:

It has nothing to do with effort. But keeping fuel/oil around can be tedious. On the flip side, stopping at a station on the way to the track and just putting gas directly into the bike as well as the truck at the same time and then driving off is a nice luxury. I have no issues with mixing. It just sucks though. Its like running E85 in my car. Its a pain to keep up with making sure I have enough on hand.

Harry Backmon wrote:

I have to admit that does sound pretty good. Not having to go out of my to purchase race fuel would also be nice. However, I'm a 2 stroke rider. Always have been.

I was too 20 years ago. And it was all normal. But Ive had a taste of the good life, but is valve adjustments and fuel injection problems worth the price of not mixing gas/oil? And on the other side, the two strokes are so simple and cheap to work on. Im concerned that the KTM/Husky brand 2t would be more complicated than the dated YZ?

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1/22/2018 7:45 AM

ZXMustang wrote:

It has nothing to do with effort. But keeping fuel/oil around can be tedious. On the flip side, stopping at a station on the way to the track and just putting gas directly into the bike as well as the truck at the same time and then driving off is a nice luxury. I have no issues with mixing. It just sucks though. Its like running E85 in my car. Its a pain to keep up with making sure I have enough on hand.

Harry Backmon wrote:

I have to admit that does sound pretty good. Not having to go out of my to purchase race fuel would also be nice. However, I'm a 2 stroke rider. Always have been.

ZXMustang wrote:

I was too 20 years ago. And it was all normal. But Ive had a taste of the good life, but is valve adjustments and fuel injection problems worth the price of not mixing gas/oil? And on the other side, the two strokes are so simple and cheap to work on. Im concerned that the KTM/Husky brand 2t would be more complicated than the dated YZ?

I don't think so, and if I was to buy a new smoker it would be from Austria.

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1/22/2018 7:46 AM

ZXMustang wrote:

I was too 20 years ago. And it was all normal. But Ive had a taste of the good life, but is valve adjustments and fuel injection problems worth the price of not mixing gas/oil? And on the other side, the two strokes are so simple and cheap to work on. Im concerned that the KTM/Husky brand 2t would be more complicated than the dated YZ?

The KTM is pretty simple to work on, adjust, maintain. I'd say no more work than the YZ. I set sag, clickers, the power valve and its good to go and not really have to mess with. I check air pressure in the forks and tires then go ride. The hardest part was getting the jetting figured out, but there is a thread going in the tech help area and we've got it pretty much sorted out so the hard works done for you already.

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2018 KTM 250sx
Instagram CamaroAJ

1/22/2018 7:47 AM

ZXMustang wrote:

It has nothing to do with effort. But keeping fuel/oil around can be tedious. On the flip side, stopping at a station on the way to the track and just putting gas directly into the bike as well as the truck at the same time and then driving off is a nice luxury. I have no issues with mixing. It just sucks though. Its like running E85 in my car. Its a pain to keep up with making sure I have enough on hand.

Harry Backmon wrote:

I have to admit that does sound pretty good. Not having to go out of my to purchase race fuel would also be nice. However, I'm a 2 stroke rider. Always have been.

ZXMustang wrote:

I was too 20 years ago. And it was all normal. But Ive had a taste of the good life, but is valve adjustments and fuel injection problems worth the price of not mixing gas/oil? And on the other side, the two strokes are so simple and cheap to work on. Im concerned that the KTM/Husky brand 2t would be more complicated than the dated YZ?

Honestly you sound like you know just enough about the bikes and their potential problems to talk about them but not enough to actually know about the problems.

Nothing on a ktm is more advanced mechanically over the yz. 2 strokes haven't advanced much since water cooling and power valves.

Efi doesnt really have issues and you wont be adjusting valves very often on a 450 esspecially if its a yamaha or ktm.

You can literally get 100s of hours on a 450 top end with proper care and intermediate or below moto.

Im all for questions and learning, but your going back and forth because of such non existent issues.

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1/22/2018 7:53 AM

Harry Backmon wrote:

I have to admit that does sound pretty good. Not having to go out of my to purchase race fuel would also be nice. However, I'm a 2 stroke rider. Always have been.

ZXMustang wrote:

I was too 20 years ago. And it was all normal. But Ive had a taste of the good life, but is valve adjustments and fuel injection problems worth the price of not mixing gas/oil? And on the other side, the two strokes are so simple and cheap to work on. Im concerned that the KTM/Husky brand 2t would be more complicated than the dated YZ?

yz133rider wrote:

Honestly you sound like you know just enough about the bikes and their potential problems to talk about them but not enough to actually know about the problems.

Nothing on a ktm is more advanced mechanically over the yz. 2 strokes haven't advanced much since water cooling and power valves.

Efi doesnt really have issues and you wont be adjusting valves very often on a 450 esspecially if its a yamaha or ktm.

You can literally get 100s of hours on a 450 top end with proper care and intermediate or below moto.

Im all for questions and learning, but your going back and forth because of such non existent issues.

Well without taking your post as disrespectful sarcasm, I will say that you are completely right. I rode a brand new KTM 250 SX-F for about 4 hours last season. Didnt even put gas in it before it got stored for winter and then sold a few days ago. And all I know at this point is from forums like this, not actual experience. Thats why Im asking these questions here. I want to know the real deal with living and working on these bikes long term. When I used to race, I was a kid and not working on them. Now Im an adult and would like to learn how to keep my next purchase maintained and running correctly.

With all that being said, yes you are correct. I know just enough to be dangerous on a forum. Now, knowing that would you recommend a new 450, or 250TS? That is the question. I have all the tools and money I would need to keep a bike up. No budget racing. But I dont want to light $100s on fire either. Just enjoy the sport from a full time working adults perspective. Lite moto/practice and many trails. Again, no "trail bikes though". Like KTM exc's and enduros.

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1/22/2018 7:58 AM
Edited Date/Time: 1/22/2018 8:00 AM

Although the 17 KTM 450XC-F looks like a moto bike with a kickstand, 18" rear tire and the bigger tank. I would add a kickstand anyway like I did on the 250f. Or a YZ450FX.

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1/22/2018 8:10 AM

350 and live happily ever after. IMO they are close to the 450 nowadays. Don’t need to rev the piss out of them, plenty of torque. Question is, why not just get the 450?That’s what I did. It will most likely be my last 450. The 350 is about 20% less of a beast which means you can throw it around easier, hammer the throttle harder, brake later, and ride longer. Besides KTM, TM has some cool options. Wish the big 4 would make one.

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1/22/2018 8:11 AM

Completely depends on you.efi is cool no playing with jetting. I say 350 honestly yes they make peak power up top but they still make great power down low.

To me 450s come on too strong and sign off early. Dont like that. Tiring to ride and a lot of power to keep under control.

350s just more forgiving feels way lighter much better to me.

If you didn't like your 250f i dont think youll like a 250 two stroke. They have narrower power bands, spin the tire more need more shifting etc.

4 stroke much more hooked up and smoother.

Your worried about getting hurt you want smooth power, id say a 350 or ktm 450 xcf or sxf depending on how much track vs trail.

For me the choice is 350 by a large margin.

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