one moto format in 09?

Dean
Posts
6089
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Goldsboro, NC, USA
5/8/2008 9:53am
sorry dave- pit stops in MX is just stupid

was this BobbyM's big news?
twizzler
Posts
1005
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
5/8/2008 9:53am
Pit stop for MX is the dumbest thing I've heard.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
5/8/2008 9:55am
I don't think anyone said any of this was for sure.

I told you guys, changes are coming and many you'll hate

Said that long ago
mxmedic
Posts
470
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
5/8/2008 9:55am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:53pm
A one moto format would totally blow. It might make it easier for TV, but overall it will hurt the sport.

What is needed is better, quicker TV coverage and to have the series promoted more to bring in new fans and hopefully keep them interested once they're there. I don't want to pay that kind of admission money to be on the grounds 90 minutes and have everything be over. Part of the fun of the nationals is being out in that heat all day and seeing what riders are best prepared to deal with the heat, changing terrain, and the time spent on the track. Only being out for one moto will not require nearly the fitness level as having to ride two motos like that within a few hours. Maybe Saturday day races would be the answer--it would be far easier to televise it next day instead of waiting a week, and people that are less interested might be more willing to make a longer drive if they have an extra day to get home.

AMA, or whoever is making this decision, please do not go to a one moto format.

The Shop

Dean
Posts
6089
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Goldsboro, NC, USA
5/8/2008 9:58am
flarider wrote:
I don't think anyone said any of this was for sure.

I told you guys, changes are coming and many you'll hate

Said that long ago
well fuck you and your message

can I still say that?








disclaimer= **lite hearted jab**
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
5/8/2008 10:05am
Some of you need to come to grips with the idea that pro mx as you know it will be no more.

You'll need to open your mind to new ideas, and IMO, two longer motos with a stop is better than one single moto without a stop.

Single moto without a stop will essentially be a sprint race
Like SX
WSR
Posts
1528
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
5/8/2008 10:07am
If somebody with a big pile of money wanted to overthrow the current situation, right now would be a perfect time. Put on some races with a big purse and draw top riders and sponsors. People always follow the money.
P
Posts
6054
Joined
11/21/2006
Location
Greensboro, NC, USA
5/8/2008 10:09am
Dudes, I was just kidding about the 100 laps and pit stops...............Sarcasm.


P
mxmedic
Posts
470
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
5/8/2008 10:09am
Two longer motos would be okay, just don't shorten anything from what it is now.
eurohero
Posts
545
Joined
5/7/2007
Location
Berlin, DE
5/8/2008 10:10am
Pit stops and breaks etc etc. This is not moto. Larger tanks equal ill handling bikes and more weight, there is already a series for that type of racing.
We already see the fitness level of the various riders at 30 +2 laps, we know who is srong and who is not,ger motos will create a bigger gap. . Timed qualifying was a good step, moving amateurs to Sunday and Pros to Sat is the next step. More fans come out for Sat race vs Sun race and as mentioned, TV would work smoother with the extra day.
APLMAN
Posts
439
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
East Wenatchee, WA, USA
5/8/2008 10:19am
flarider wrote:
That's where strategy comes in

You're supposed to stop BEFORE you run out of gas
Yeah, but these things don't quite work the same way that cars do........

Every track is completely different and would have a different fuel consumption rate, and not even close to enough time to work out where the right (and safe!) times to pit would be.

In a car, you coast to a stop. In a bike, you stall on the face of a jump.

Big difference......
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
5/8/2008 10:24am
eurohero wrote:
Pit stops and breaks etc etc. This is not moto. Larger tanks equal ill handling bikes and more weight, there is already a series for that...
Pit stops and breaks etc etc. This is not moto. Larger tanks equal ill handling bikes and more weight, there is already a series for that type of racing.
We already see the fitness level of the various riders at 30 +2 laps, we know who is srong and who is not,ger motos will create a bigger gap. . Timed qualifying was a good step, moving amateurs to Sunday and Pros to Sat is the next step. More fans come out for Sat race vs Sun race and as mentioned, TV would work smoother with the extra day.
not bad...bringing back am days by racing on Saturday seems like a good idea.

I also think attendance would be up with a Saturday race.

Longer motos are a no go as per previous comments.

The 3 - 20 could be interesting. One problem with the current format is one guy typically checks out and the second half of the race is kind of boring. Heck, make it a circus. Two x 25 minute motos for each class and a 10 minute dash for cash at the end of the day for the top 5 from each class...
mxmiken
Posts
233
Joined
4/23/2008
Location
Fallbrook, CA, USA
5/8/2008 10:29am
flarider wrote:
I don't think anyone said any of this was for sure.

I told you guys, changes are coming and many you'll hate

Said that long ago
Dean wrote:
well fuck you and your message

can I still say that?








disclaimer= **lite hearted jab**
I AGREE..THATS FRICKIN STUPID...no offense to you davey
WhipMeister
Posts
5286
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
5/8/2008 10:50am
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash.

This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be TV-friendly and masses-friendly. USA TV friendly, that is. Cricket is wildly popular on TV in parts of Europe, too, Bob. That doesn't mean squat for what it would do here. I also would not conclude that their failure there would necessarily be repeated here. You don't know until you try it.

TV friendly means being able to present the entire competition in 44 minutes or less so it can be economically slotted on the schedule. It also means really 'dumbed' down, as in 'no-math-required' for Joe Blow to understand who won the freaking race, which is what you have now with a two moto format. One moto, one checkered flag, one winner.

Of course, this completely flies in the face of tradition, too, and is bound to piss a lot of people off. But realize the sport has been beating itself against the TV wall for DECADES with no appreciable penetration into the non-riding audience. And that's where you have to make headway if you want it to grow. Unfortunately for the traditionalists, changes will have to be accepted to get there.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
5/8/2008 10:56am
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash. This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be...
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash.

This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be TV-friendly and masses-friendly. USA TV friendly, that is. Cricket is wildly popular on TV in parts of Europe, too, Bob. That doesn't mean squat for what it would do here. I also would not conclude that their failure there would necessarily be repeated here. You don't know until you try it.

TV friendly means being able to present the entire competition in 44 minutes or less so it can be economically slotted on the schedule. It also means really 'dumbed' down, as in 'no-math-required' for Joe Blow to understand who won the freaking race, which is what you have now with a two moto format. One moto, one checkered flag, one winner.

Of course, this completely flies in the face of tradition, too, and is bound to piss a lot of people off. But realize the sport has been beating itself against the TV wall for DECADES with no appreciable penetration into the non-riding audience. And that's where you have to make headway if you want it to grow. Unfortunately for the traditionalists, changes will have to be accepted to get there.
yup
APLMAN
Posts
439
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
East Wenatchee, WA, USA
5/8/2008 11:11am
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash. This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be...
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash.

This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be TV-friendly and masses-friendly. USA TV friendly, that is. Cricket is wildly popular on TV in parts of Europe, too, Bob. That doesn't mean squat for what it would do here. I also would not conclude that their failure there would necessarily be repeated here. You don't know until you try it.

TV friendly means being able to present the entire competition in 44 minutes or less so it can be economically slotted on the schedule. It also means really 'dumbed' down, as in 'no-math-required' for Joe Blow to understand who won the freaking race, which is what you have now with a two moto format. One moto, one checkered flag, one winner.

Of course, this completely flies in the face of tradition, too, and is bound to piss a lot of people off. But realize the sport has been beating itself against the TV wall for DECADES with no appreciable penetration into the non-riding audience. And that's where you have to make headway if you want it to grow. Unfortunately for the traditionalists, changes will have to be accepted to get there.
flarider wrote:
yup
That would make sense, except almost none of the sports on TV are really "TV friendly".....

Baseball games go by innings, not a clock.

Football times are somewhat easier to estimate, but still not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. Same with basketball, hockey, etc.

NASCAR races don't generally fit into a 44 minute slot, either.

The deal is, MX really isn't a "made for TV" sport. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Participation was pretty high in 1978 without TV........
indy_maico
Posts
5103
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Indianapolis, IN, USA
5/8/2008 11:19am
If we follow the Daytona Motorsports Group's GrandAm Rolex Series model it will be:

minimum 2 riders per bike

2 3/4 hours race length

must have pit stop in first 45 minutes, but each rider must go at least 30 minutes to score points

spec fuel with a maximum allowable amount for the race distance

spec tires

Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
5/8/2008 11:20am
Motocross isn't NASCAR. What's the advantage of TV exposure when all that will be seen is one version of supercross or another? Making the outdoors into a one moto format will hurt the racing but make it easier for the everyday person to understand (they don't want to add up points to figure out who won). But why do we need the everyday person watching the sport? You change it too much and you end up with wrestling, all show and no substance. Plus, the everyday person wants jumps and "daring feats" but most importantly, they want to see people crash. Ok, so, we switch everything to one moto formats, change all the tracks to resemble SX tracks and run the races on Saturday night? We have that now and its called supercross! So really instead of 17 SX's, we will get 29 SX's?

The downside is that ultimately you will suffer at the grassroots level. Am's will follow the pro's and local MX will go to qualifiers and a main. No one will want to race locally and attendance will suffer where it matters most. Bike sales will fall and tracks will close. Aftermarket and gear guys will stop selling and drop out and then we are left with only an elite few that can participate. Can someone say NASCAR?

I say keep motocross for the core fans and let the idiots have SX.
Trinitite
Posts
1253
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
5/8/2008 11:21am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:53pm
As far as tv goes, this could help get live coverage & I agree that simplifying the format into one moto would make it easier for new fans (tv viewers) to understand. However, I don't like the idea and I think it would drive down attendance at the events, but maybe that's a tradeoff they're willing to make.
davis224
Posts
7610
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL, USA
5/8/2008 11:24am
one moto would fucking blow
5/8/2008 11:26am
Jabjr222 wrote:
Motocross isn't NASCAR. What's the advantage of TV exposure when all that will be seen is one version of supercross or another? Making the outdoors into...
Motocross isn't NASCAR. What's the advantage of TV exposure when all that will be seen is one version of supercross or another? Making the outdoors into a one moto format will hurt the racing but make it easier for the everyday person to understand (they don't want to add up points to figure out who won). But why do we need the everyday person watching the sport? You change it too much and you end up with wrestling, all show and no substance. Plus, the everyday person wants jumps and "daring feats" but most importantly, they want to see people crash. Ok, so, we switch everything to one moto formats, change all the tracks to resemble SX tracks and run the races on Saturday night? We have that now and its called supercross! So really instead of 17 SX's, we will get 29 SX's?

The downside is that ultimately you will suffer at the grassroots level. Am's will follow the pro's and local MX will go to qualifiers and a main. No one will want to race locally and attendance will suffer where it matters most. Bike sales will fall and tracks will close. Aftermarket and gear guys will stop selling and drop out and then we are left with only an elite few that can participate. Can someone say NASCAR?

I say keep motocross for the core fans and let the idiots have SX.
Keep MX for the core fans only, and their will be no MX in a short amount of time.
Mod Killer
Posts
1827
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Worldwide, CA, USA
5/8/2008 11:29am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:53pm
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash. This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be...
Well, I understand where they are coming from. I also understand the backlash.

This is the fundamental problem: To attract the mainstream, moto needs to be TV-friendly and masses-friendly. USA TV friendly, that is. Cricket is wildly popular on TV in parts of Europe, too, Bob. That doesn't mean squat for what it would do here. I also would not conclude that their failure there would necessarily be repeated here. You don't know until you try it.

TV friendly means being able to present the entire competition in 44 minutes or less so it can be economically slotted on the schedule. It also means really 'dumbed' down, as in 'no-math-required' for Joe Blow to understand who won the freaking race, which is what you have now with a two moto format. One moto, one checkered flag, one winner.

Of course, this completely flies in the face of tradition, too, and is bound to piss a lot of people off. But realize the sport has been beating itself against the TV wall for DECADES with no appreciable penetration into the non-riding audience. And that's where you have to make headway if you want it to grow. Unfortunately for the traditionalists, changes will have to be accepted to get there.
flarider wrote:
yup
APLMAN wrote:
That would make sense, except almost none of the sports on TV are really "TV friendly"..... Baseball games go by innings, not a clock. Football times...
That would make sense, except almost none of the sports on TV are really "TV friendly".....

Baseball games go by innings, not a clock.

Football times are somewhat easier to estimate, but still not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. Same with basketball, hockey, etc.

NASCAR races don't generally fit into a 44 minute slot, either.

The deal is, MX really isn't a "made for TV" sport. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Participation was pretty high in 1978 without TV........
agreed. this fucking sucks.

the reason mx is in the tank isnt the format. its in the tank because the superstars dont race it (mind you the real fan doesnt care if reed etc skip the outdoors).

ive said it twice i'll say it a million times more, the talent in this sport is just spread too thin. thats the problem. three different series, six different classes.

- your world championship isnt the premier series
- your hardcore fans & media think a national mx series is
- and yet stupidcross is packaged as the premier series
- all the while 250f class is a deeper field than the big bikes with big sponsor/factory backed teams that belong in the premier class. they have the budgets but why would they if they get more coverage in what should be a feeder class.

thats the problem right there. this sport is going in too many damn directions. theirs no continuity.
Sondy132001
Posts
4042
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA, USA
5/8/2008 11:31am
one moto nationals won't happen.

S
WhipMeister
Posts
5286
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
5/8/2008 11:38am
APLMAN wrote:
That would make sense, except almost none of the sports on TV are really "TV friendly"..... Baseball games go by innings, not a clock. Football times...
That would make sense, except almost none of the sports on TV are really "TV friendly".....

Baseball games go by innings, not a clock.

Football times are somewhat easier to estimate, but still not an exact science by any stretch of the imagination. Same with basketball, hockey, etc.

NASCAR races don't generally fit into a 44 minute slot, either.

The deal is, MX really isn't a "made for TV" sport. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Participation was pretty high in 1978 without TV........
You're missing it. Those are sports that are already wildly popular with the masses. Their popularity insures there is adequate TV revenue to not only pay for the telecasts, regardless of format, but to kick back to the teams as well.

Moto is coming at it from the other end. There is NO popularity to speak beyond those that ride. We want some of that. We NEED some of that.

Right now, moto has to pay its way onto TV. You need it to progress to the other way around. You do that in small, baby, steps.
WhipMeister
Posts
5286
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
5/8/2008 11:44am
Jabjr222 wrote:
Motocross isn't NASCAR. What's the advantage of TV exposure when all that will be seen is one version of supercross or another? Making the outdoors into...
Motocross isn't NASCAR. What's the advantage of TV exposure when all that will be seen is one version of supercross or another? Making the outdoors into a one moto format will hurt the racing but make it easier for the everyday person to understand (they don't want to add up points to figure out who won). But why do we need the everyday person watching the sport? You change it too much and you end up with wrestling, all show and no substance. Plus, the everyday person wants jumps and "daring feats" but most importantly, they want to see people crash. Ok, so, we switch everything to one moto formats, change all the tracks to resemble SX tracks and run the races on Saturday night? We have that now and its called supercross! So really instead of 17 SX's, we will get 29 SX's?

The downside is that ultimately you will suffer at the grassroots level. Am's will follow the pro's and local MX will go to qualifiers and a main. No one will want to race locally and attendance will suffer where it matters most. Bike sales will fall and tracks will close. Aftermarket and gear guys will stop selling and drop out and then we are left with only an elite few that can participate. Can someone say NASCAR?

I say keep motocross for the core fans and let the idiots have SX.
Why? Why? Because the increased popularity will pour money into the sport. The new money will buy better and newer equipment, tracks, everything. It will delay riders trading in their bikes for cars. It provides compensation more on par with the risks. It will fund amateur development programs, down at that grassroots level. It will provide stability and comfort.

Other than that stuff, it sucks.

A rising tide floats all boats.
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
5/8/2008 11:47am
Keep MX for the core fans only, and their will be no MX in a short amount of time.
I wouldn't really agree with that. You have the exposure from supercross that will help generate interest in the sport. That will drive the mom and dad and young kids out to the local track and that's where they get hooked. But that won't happen if the track is a crazy version of supercross with 100 triples and it scares the hell out of mom when she sees that 125 novice crash trying a jump he had no business jumping in the first place and get carried off. Am moto has always followed the pros. Supercross is popular, lets make the local track more supercrossy. All the pros are on 4 strokes, let's all ride 4 strokes...

We don't need to be huge. You know? Moto has been around and will always be around but we don't need it to be NASCAR huge. You have to support the grass roots to continue the sport. Not everything has to be big and cost millions.

Let's face it, we have had TV coverage lately that has been better than anything else in years and what is happening at the local level? It's not all about TV.
Sondy132001
Posts
4042
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA, USA
5/8/2008 11:49am
We need to piggy-back it on to a more popular sport, like how the X-Games does it or the WNBA does it but jumping on the NBA flag. Get it more out there.

Maybe I am naive, but I seriously thought when I was driving to the Movie Theater to see 199 Lives it would be sold out and I wouldn't get in, it was dead, the next night was much better, but I really thought Travis had crossed over with all his appearances on late night TV etc...

It just shows we have a long way to go and need to start getting more exposure, I still think LN needs to take advantage of all those celebrities who come to SX, US, People all those rags need stories for their weekly shit, we need to get MX/SX out there. Brad Pitt went to MotoGP two years ago and it was all over the AP wire, we need that.

S
Jabjr222
Posts
1364
Joined
4/17/2008
Location
Seattle, WA, USA
5/8/2008 11:53am
Why? Why? Because the increased popularity will pour money into the sport. The new money will buy better and newer equipment, tracks, everything. It will delay...
Why? Why? Because the increased popularity will pour money into the sport. The new money will buy better and newer equipment, tracks, everything. It will delay riders trading in their bikes for cars. It provides compensation more on par with the risks. It will fund amateur development programs, down at that grassroots level. It will provide stability and comfort.

Other than that stuff, it sucks.

A rising tide floats all boats.
Better and newer equipment cost proportionately more. Higher costs will drive people out. Whatever a multi-million dollar deal does for the pros, there will be very little trickle down.

I do agree that the riders need to be paid more. It's pathetic what they get paid now. With that said, what kind of profits are clear channel / Live Nation and everybody else taking? If they are making money (not just creative accounting), the riders deserve their share. Similar to like other pro sports. If everyone is losing money, then you have to face the facts that the dollars aren't there and something else needs to be done.

Amateur development programs? Example?
level
Posts
6184
Joined
8/27/2006
Location
Acworth, GA, USA
5/8/2008 11:53am
Might not be that bad going to a supercross style format with one long moto. It is the pro's so they can mix things up a little. Wouldn't expect things to change on a local level but hell you never know. It might not be as bad as you guys are whining about. People hate change and every time someone mentions change on this board you guys whine bad. Some of you are still not over the whole 4 stroke change and that's been 4 or 5 years.
Sondy132001
Posts
4042
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mission Viejo, CA, USA
5/8/2008 11:56am
level wrote:
Might not be that bad going to a supercross style format with one long moto. It is the pro's so they can mix things up a...
Might not be that bad going to a supercross style format with one long moto. It is the pro's so they can mix things up a little. Wouldn't expect things to change on a local level but hell you never know. It might not be as bad as you guys are whining about. People hate change and every time someone mentions change on this board you guys whine bad. Some of you are still not over the whole 4 stroke change and that's been 4 or 5 years.
Funny you brought that up, I have already heard from a couple of very reliable sources that 2-strokes will be back in a couple of years, all but Honda are game. They see the transition from 85cc to 250f is too detrimental to the sport. Keep your fingers crossed I for one would love to hear that sound again.

S

Post a reply to: one moto format in 09?

The Latest