James Stewart Arrest Perspective

Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 12:47pm
4/4/2011 12:47pm
Nerd wrote:
That's not what I'm saying at all. They take an oath to do what I said they take an oath to do. And because this is...
That's not what I'm saying at all. They take an oath to do what I said they take an oath to do. And because this is their oath, they know their job is going to put them in harm's way.

For example, they have very specific standards for what allows them to shoot someone, and it's much more stringent than a civilian. For civilians, you can more or less make a case that you felt threatened, and as long as your gun is registered or the like, it's self-defense. But for cops, they can't do that. They have to think about the rights of the person they would potentially be shooting and how those rights may be violated by doing so, regardless of "feeling threatened".

They don't take a suicide pact, like you keep insisting with your ridiculous strawman argument. But what they do is take an oath to uphold the law, the constitution, and protect the civilians, and those civilians include the people they will be arresting, or attempting to arrest.

Another example: If a guy comes to you swinging, you can grab something nearby and crack him in the skull so that he stops because it's self-defense. However, if a police officer pulls someone over, and that person is combative, the officer cannot give him a night club to the skull. All he's allowed to do, by law, is the minimum that is reasonably required to subdue the person. Why? Because for the police officer, it's not about self defense, it's about serving the civilians, and that person is a civilian, too.

Not that I think you're going to get it this time, because you're arguing just to argue and the last thing you'll want to do is admit that I'm right.

But I'm right.
APLMAN99 wrote:
I think you are ASSuming a bit too much. Are you serious that a civilian can simply shoot someone and claim to have felt threatened and...
I think you are ASSuming a bit too much. Are you serious that a civilian can simply shoot someone and claim to have felt threatened and it's automatically "self defense"? That's almost comical. There'd never be a murder trial in this country if that were the case......

You are the one who introduces the notion that LEOs take a suicide pact, it just didn't sound as stupid as it is until someone pointed it out to you.

Any progress on those 10 oathes that you claim to know so much about?
I was too vague with writing out the civilian requirements. I apologize. I'm talking about situations where it can be reasonably considered true that you felt threatened.

I'll wait for you to respond, point by point, to the rest of what I posted and tell me what's incorrect about subduing a suspect and the like. I don't have time to go back and forth without you addressing my points specifically. Good luck.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/4/2011 12:52pm
4/4/2011 12:52pm
Nerd wrote:
I was too vague with writing out the civilian requirements. I apologize. I'm talking about situations where it can be reasonably considered true that you felt...
I was too vague with writing out the civilian requirements. I apologize. I'm talking about situations where it can be reasonably considered true that you felt threatened.

I'll wait for you to respond, point by point, to the rest of what I posted and tell me what's incorrect about subduing a suspect and the like. I don't have time to go back and forth without you addressing my points specifically. Good luck.
The oathes? Any progress?

I'll take your avoidance as what it really is, an ASSumption that you know what they contain.....

But for charity, I will give you a little hint about them. Any of them that have any references to action in them, by definition require the LEO be be ALIVE to carry out those actions. A dead LEO cannot adequately perform his or her duties to uphold the law. Therefore the basic tenet of staying alive is an absolute requirement.
newmann
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newmann 4/4/2011 12:57pm
4/4/2011 12:57pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
So you ARE arguing that LEOs agree to a suicide pact. That's complete bullshit, you know it. Show me the oathes you are referring to that...
So you ARE arguing that LEOs agree to a suicide pact.

That's complete bullshit, you know it.

Show me the oathes you are referring to that specifically require an offficer to die while enforcing the law. Just 10 would be fine......
Nerd wrote:
That's not what I'm saying at all. They take an oath to do what I said they take an oath to do. And because this is...
That's not what I'm saying at all. They take an oath to do what I said they take an oath to do. And because this is their oath, they know their job is going to put them in harm's way.

For example, they have very specific standards for what allows them to shoot someone, and it's much more stringent than a civilian. For civilians, you can more or less make a case that you felt threatened, and as long as your gun is registered or the like, it's self-defense. But for cops, they can't do that. They have to think about the rights of the person they would potentially be shooting and how those rights may be violated by doing so, regardless of "feeling threatened".

They don't take a suicide pact, like you keep insisting with your ridiculous strawman argument. But what they do is take an oath to uphold the law, the constitution, and protect the civilians, and those civilians include the people they will be arresting, or attempting to arrest.

Another example: If a guy comes to you swinging, you can grab something nearby and crack him in the skull so that he stops because it's self-defense. However, if a police officer pulls someone over, and that person is combative, the officer cannot give him a night club to the skull. All he's allowed to do, by law, is the minimum that is reasonably required to subdue the person. Why? Because for the police officer, it's not about self defense, it's about serving the civilians, and that person is a civilian, too.

Not that I think you're going to get it this time, because you're arguing just to argue and the last thing you'll want to do is admit that I'm right.

But I'm right.
"Not that I think you're going to get it this time, because you're arguing just to argue and the last thing you'll want to do is admit that I'm right.

But I'm right. "



That's some funny shit right there, accusing someone else of arguing just for the sake of arguing!
Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 1:01pm
4/4/2011 1:01pm
Nerd wrote:
I was too vague with writing out the civilian requirements. I apologize. I'm talking about situations where it can be reasonably considered true that you felt...
I was too vague with writing out the civilian requirements. I apologize. I'm talking about situations where it can be reasonably considered true that you felt threatened.

I'll wait for you to respond, point by point, to the rest of what I posted and tell me what's incorrect about subduing a suspect and the like. I don't have time to go back and forth without you addressing my points specifically. Good luck.
APLMAN99 wrote:
The oathes? Any progress? I'll take your avoidance as what it really is, an ASSumption that you know what they contain..... But for charity, I will...
The oathes? Any progress?

I'll take your avoidance as what it really is, an ASSumption that you know what they contain.....

But for charity, I will give you a little hint about them. Any of them that have any references to action in them, by definition require the LEO be be ALIVE to carry out those actions. A dead LEO cannot adequately perform his or her duties to uphold the law. Therefore the basic tenet of staying alive is an absolute requirement.
You're obviously not even reading what I'm writing, much less trying to respond to it. I'll keep waiting. My email will let me know if you respond appropriately.

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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 4/4/2011 1:14pm
4/4/2011 1:14pm
Cox, I accept your white flag and your refusal to provide evidence for what it is......
JCRF217
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JCRF217 4/4/2011 5:45pm
4/4/2011 5:45pm
i'm not adding anything to this thread just trying to keep it at the top of the list. hahaSmile
mcleoud151
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mcleoud151 4/4/2011 7:49pm
4/4/2011 7:49pm
lostboy819 wrote:
It was a good oppprtunity .Now you are putting words in my mouth by saying I said it was a privilege or something. For someone who...
It was a good oppprtunity .Now you are putting words in my mouth by saying I said it was a privilege or something. For someone who says people read too much into what you write you sure like to add things that were not said.
Sherwood wrote:
He's a fucking idiot. If he ever gets kidnapped don't call the cops for him because there're only on a power trip and don't want to...
He's a fucking idiot. If he ever gets kidnapped don't call the cops for him because there're only on a power trip and don't want to help.
Nerd wrote:
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm...
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm packing, though, I don't think I'm going to end up kidnapped, thus the point I was making about disobeying some laws being the right thing to do.
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what we do. This entire thread cracks me up. Incredible generalizations on every side and angle of this argument. I carry my Glock everywhere, why shouldn't the public be allowed to as well?
Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 7:56pm
4/4/2011 7:56pm
Sherwood wrote:
He's a fucking idiot. If he ever gets kidnapped don't call the cops for him because there're only on a power trip and don't want to...
He's a fucking idiot. If he ever gets kidnapped don't call the cops for him because there're only on a power trip and don't want to help.
Nerd wrote:
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm...
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm packing, though, I don't think I'm going to end up kidnapped, thus the point I was making about disobeying some laws being the right thing to do.
mcleoud151 wrote:
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what...
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what we do. This entire thread cracks me up. Incredible generalizations on every side and angle of this argument. I carry my Glock everywhere, why shouldn't the public be allowed to as well?
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good.

But I agree about the Glock! Smile
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JCRF217 4/4/2011 7:59pm
4/4/2011 7:59pm
Nerd wrote:
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good. But I agree about...
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good.

But I agree about the Glock! Smile
i thought you would call in on pulpmx when dunes was calling in. haha you guys are like little girls. mainly you about this whole thing no offense.Wink Cool
mcleoud151
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mcleoud151 4/4/2011 8:00pm
4/4/2011 8:00pm
Nerd wrote:
All you guys are doing is pointing out how far our "justice system" has slid from protecting the people to protecting the police officers.
rc4187 wrote:
The law is there so that people aren't hurt by someone pretending to be a cop. They want people to know that when you are indeed...
The law is there so that people aren't hurt by someone pretending to be a cop.

They want people to know that when you are indeed pulled over, it is by an authority and not some wacko.

This law is to protect the people... not the police.
Nerd wrote:
Yes, of course, but he was talking about how if you run from the cops, the vehicle is automatically considered a "deadly weapon". That's to protect...
Yes, of course, but he was talking about how if you run from the cops, the vehicle is automatically considered a "deadly weapon". That's to protect cops.
Incidentally, it has to be used as a weapon to be considered such in Oregon. It isn't automatically so.
mcleoud151
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mcleoud151 4/4/2011 8:04pm
4/4/2011 8:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/4/2011 8:07pm
Nerd wrote:
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm...
The idiot part is your opinion, obviously, but I agree that if I get kidnapped, don't call the cops. If it's one of the days I'm packing, though, I don't think I'm going to end up kidnapped, thus the point I was making about disobeying some laws being the right thing to do.
mcleoud151 wrote:
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what...
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what we do. This entire thread cracks me up. Incredible generalizations on every side and angle of this argument. I carry my Glock everywhere, why shouldn't the public be allowed to as well?
Nerd wrote:
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good. But I agree about...
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good.

But I agree about the Glock! Smile
If I wanted to be worshipped I would have become a fireman. Now THERE are some egos!!!!!! Wink
Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 8:07pm
4/4/2011 8:07pm
mcleoud151 wrote:
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what...
The thing is, you could call the cops, and we'd still come, even though you hate us as a group. That's our job and that's what we do. This entire thread cracks me up. Incredible generalizations on every side and angle of this argument. I carry my Glock everywhere, why shouldn't the public be allowed to as well?
Nerd wrote:
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good. But I agree about...
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good.

But I agree about the Glock! Smile
mcleoud151 wrote:
If I wanted to be worshipped I would have become a fireman. Now THERE are some egos!!!!!! Wink
I graduated the fire academy and EMT school and all that, and we always figured cops were failed firefighters.

Hehe...

I like how Oregon looks at pistols, though. And how many shootings happen in Oregon?

Coincidence?

Smile
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mcleoud151 4/4/2011 8:11pm
4/4/2011 8:11pm
Nerd wrote:
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good. But I agree about...
I don't hate cops, I just don't worship them like many people seem to. Cops are what they are. It's all good.

But I agree about the Glock! Smile
mcleoud151 wrote:
If I wanted to be worshipped I would have become a fireman. Now THERE are some egos!!!!!! Wink
Nerd wrote:
I graduated the fire academy and EMT school and all that, and we always figured cops were failed firefighters. Hehe... I like how Oregon looks at...
I graduated the fire academy and EMT school and all that, and we always figured cops were failed firefighters.

Hehe...

I like how Oregon looks at pistols, though. And how many shootings happen in Oregon?

Coincidence?

Smile
I've gone both routes and find this one far more suiting my personality. Even hosers need heroes!

We are a "Shall issue" state. At least the bad guys aren't the only ones with guns here.
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RaceFace 4/4/2011 8:18pm
4/4/2011 8:18pm
FastEddy wrote:
"Your Honor, my clients did not intend any harm,this is the kind of stuff they do for fun ".

"I present you Exhibit #1 "
https://youtu.be/P3-l5k0CrTM
Darth Fader wrote:
Identity theft! Identity theft! Somebody call 911 and Rick James pronto.
THIS was a worse idea than the red and blues.

Shouldn't Rick James be singing a Rick James song anyway? For proper accuracy, Rick James just sits in the booth in this one and shakes his fist at appropriate times and I think he had beads in his hair, not an afro. Why are there two Rick Jameseses?

I'm still baffled about the thought process behind this video, posting it, and apparently thinking it is either funny, cool, or something else entirely. This is about as lame as it gets, no? Imagine what videos are sitting in a closet somewhere as too lame to post. The horror. Hmmmmm, think they ever taped their police actions?
Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 8:20pm
4/4/2011 8:20pm
mcleoud151 wrote:
If I wanted to be worshipped I would have become a fireman. Now THERE are some egos!!!!!! Wink
Nerd wrote:
I graduated the fire academy and EMT school and all that, and we always figured cops were failed firefighters. Hehe... I like how Oregon looks at...
I graduated the fire academy and EMT school and all that, and we always figured cops were failed firefighters.

Hehe...

I like how Oregon looks at pistols, though. And how many shootings happen in Oregon?

Coincidence?

Smile
mcleoud151 wrote:
I've gone both routes and find this one far more suiting my personality. Even hosers need heroes! We are a "Shall issue" state. At least the...
I've gone both routes and find this one far more suiting my personality. Even hosers need heroes!

We are a "Shall issue" state. At least the bad guys aren't the only ones with guns here.
See, you're proof that I don't hate cops, because I love you! Smile

You're not a hypocrite. I hate hypocrisy, and cops are sometimes hypocrites, but you're cool.
mcleoud151
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mcleoud151 4/4/2011 8:27pm
4/4/2011 8:27pm Edited Date/Time 4/4/2011 8:32pm
I should thank god for making you love me even though I'm a cop. Yeah....I know it's not caps. Hypocritical cops are bad for the rest of us. Everyone does or has done stupid shit. If you haven't, you have lived one hell of a dull life. James got caught and he was breaking a law. He should get a small slap on the wrist because it was a dumb idea. This dooesn't make him a bad guy in any way.
Nerd
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Nerd 4/4/2011 10:53pm
4/4/2011 10:53pm
mcleoud151 wrote:
I should thank god for making you love me even though I'm a cop. Yeah....I know it's not caps. Hypocritical cops are bad for the rest...
I should thank god for making you love me even though I'm a cop. Yeah....I know it's not caps. Hypocritical cops are bad for the rest of us. Everyone does or has done stupid shit. If you haven't, you have lived one hell of a dull life. James got caught and he was breaking a law. He should get a small slap on the wrist because it was a dumb idea. This dooesn't make him a bad guy in any way.
That's crazy talk. What do you know? It's not like you're a cop.

Oh, right, you are a cop.

Nevermind.

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