Something ALL Motocross Figured Out At Lakewood.

JLong
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JLong 10/1/2010 8:04pm
10/1/2010 8:04pm
Qualifying races suck. Always have. It's like eating peanuts before your steak dinner comes out.

DC
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DC 10/1/2010 8:09pm
10/1/2010 8:09pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2010 8:12pm
We start at one pm and end after five. That includes the timeouts. Add up the time outs in a football or baseball game Kinetic against actual competition in action. We have a lot of action in our window. We are trying to fit more in. And you can watch three hours of practice/timed qualifying.... On the same day.



DC
MX Sports
72kiteboarder
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72kiteboarder 10/1/2010 8:14pm
10/1/2010 8:14pm
I think we should have Championship point for Qualifying position , but reverse gate picks. qualify first, get Ten championship points but get last gate pick. awesome racing to be seen with that format.
ClassCClairVoyant 10/1/2010 8:15pm
10/1/2010 8:15pm Edited Date/Time 10/1/2010 8:26pm
Timed qualifying is by far the fairest way to line 'em up. There have a number of changes in the last few years for the better and that is definitely one of them...

And BTW, I am noone to cast aspersions but didn't Mr. RupertX and that Cudby guy get kicked out of the renaissance festival circuit before they came over to MX?

The Shop

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sbarrington314 10/1/2010 8:21pm
10/1/2010 8:21pm
DC wrote:
I understand that many people would prefer qualifiers, but the riders and race teams (including most of the privateers I spoke to) like timed qualifying better...
I understand that many people would prefer qualifiers, but the riders and race teams (including most of the privateers I spoke to) like timed qualifying better, especially in a one-day program. Our fans get four hours of championship motos in one day, and if they care to come early, they can see eight timed sessions.

You guys want more racing, the riders and teams want a one-day format, you want a two-stroke support class, you want to include the WMX, or you want us to turn it back into a two-day deal.... We can't do it all, but what we have right now seems to be working really well. We will be tweaking some things, but i really don't think we won't be going back to qualifying races in 2011.

At the MXoN, it's different because it is a team race, and the gate picks really count because it's 1-21, 2-22, etc. That's very important when you have guys on uneven displacement equipment.

DC
MX Sports
in that case, ill stay home and let the racers have what they want.
sbarrington314 10/1/2010 8:21pm
10/1/2010 8:21pm
DC wrote:
I understand that many people would prefer qualifiers, but the riders and race teams (including most of the privateers I spoke to) like timed qualifying better...
I understand that many people would prefer qualifiers, but the riders and race teams (including most of the privateers I spoke to) like timed qualifying better, especially in a one-day program. Our fans get four hours of championship motos in one day, and if they care to come early, they can see eight timed sessions.

You guys want more racing, the riders and teams want a one-day format, you want a two-stroke support class, you want to include the WMX, or you want us to turn it back into a two-day deal.... We can't do it all, but what we have right now seems to be working really well. We will be tweaking some things, but i really don't think we won't be going back to qualifying races in 2011.

At the MXoN, it's different because it is a team race, and the gate picks really count because it's 1-21, 2-22, etc. That's very important when you have guys on uneven displacement equipment.

DC
MX Sports
sbarrington314 wrote:
in that case, ill stay home and let the racers have what they want.
btw, im kidding. ill take moto however i have to. but thats the way i feel.
DL
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DL 10/1/2010 8:24pm
10/1/2010 8:24pm
I like gate picks determined by timed laps. It insures the faster riders get a better gate pick and makes the first turn safer when the first turn is shorter on one side of the gate. I'll take some shots here but it's my opinion........ Timed qualifying in F1 is very entertaining. I think MX qualifying could be made more exciting by making more of a show out of it.
curmudgeon
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curmudgeon 10/1/2010 8:27pm
10/1/2010 8:27pm
Rock, paper, scissors tournament for gate picks. Why should the fastest guys always get the good gate picks.
JLong
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JLong 10/1/2010 8:36pm
10/1/2010 8:36pm
I'm entertained by current MX timed practice as well as F1. I like the idea of reversed gate picks and points paid for top qualifier. There are some great ideas in other forms of motor sports.

It would be interesting to see all the top qualifiers with crap gate picks, possible bad starts, then charge through the field. Award passing points too.
Blake
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Blake 10/1/2010 9:20pm
10/1/2010 9:20pm
Seeded positions is BS. ALL should have to qualify, each and every time.

They do in F1, and now and then, the top dog blows it. As it should be.

Its equal, and it's fair.
dewey441
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dewey441 10/2/2010 7:56am
10/2/2010 7:56am
I think MX is just different then in the early 90's. I want to see qualifiers because it is racing however today you almost cant be a local racer and even sign up for a National. If i recall it was a 1 day format in the late 80's early 90's with top 10 in points seeded in and everyone else raced there way in the program.
powDIRT
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powDIRT 10/2/2010 9:32am
10/2/2010 9:32am Edited Date/Time 10/2/2010 9:32am
I like the idea of giving the 1st 30 qualifiers getting in and then having a 15 min moto for the final 10 spots.



The problem with quali races is that in theory it looks like it would help the privateers, but in reality that isn't the case.



I know a couple of people that have tried to qualify for nationals and the problem is:

A) to setup a bike that will run with the big boys means that reliability declines steeply. Not everyone has Goose in the pits in between motos. (I thought we wanted to make the sport more cost-friendly?)

B. A lot of privateers have other things going on in their lives (work, family, etc.) Their job doesn't consist turning laps and being a gym rat.



Now factor in those two items and think about having to bang bars for another moto, then if you do make it, you are absolutely gassed for the actual 2 motos and your bike may be beat to hell.



We also have a provisional system, which not many people knew about until Shorty used it Southwick. Just wait until someone races their way in, just to be replaced by a provisional.



Or imagine if the Canard/Pourcel battle was ruined by a wreck in the meaningless qualifying race.



I love watching racing, but the grass isn't always greener.



(Plus if we added another moto to Freestone this year, we may have killed some riders!)
500guy
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500guy 10/2/2010 10:58am
10/2/2010 10:58am
DC wrote:
We start at one pm and end after five. That includes the timeouts. Add up the time outs in a football or baseball game Kinetic against...
We start at one pm and end after five. That includes the timeouts. Add up the time outs in a football or baseball game Kinetic against actual competition in action. We have a lot of action in our window. We are trying to fit more in. And you can watch three hours of practice/timed qualifying.... On the same day.



DC
MX Sports
I personally like they way it is now, just keep the TV coverage going and make sure the webcast and live timing go smoother and I'm all good.
raddad
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raddad 10/2/2010 11:14am
10/2/2010 11:14am
powDIRT wrote:
I like the idea of giving the 1st 30 qualifiers getting in and then having a 15 min moto for the final 10 spots. The problem...
I like the idea of giving the 1st 30 qualifiers getting in and then having a 15 min moto for the final 10 spots.



The problem with quali races is that in theory it looks like it would help the privateers, but in reality that isn't the case.



I know a couple of people that have tried to qualify for nationals and the problem is:

A) to setup a bike that will run with the big boys means that reliability declines steeply. Not everyone has Goose in the pits in between motos. (I thought we wanted to make the sport more cost-friendly?)

B. A lot of privateers have other things going on in their lives (work, family, etc.) Their job doesn't consist turning laps and being a gym rat.



Now factor in those two items and think about having to bang bars for another moto, then if you do make it, you are absolutely gassed for the actual 2 motos and your bike may be beat to hell.



We also have a provisional system, which not many people knew about until Shorty used it Southwick. Just wait until someone races their way in, just to be replaced by a provisional.



Or imagine if the Canard/Pourcel battle was ruined by a wreck in the meaningless qualifying race.



I love watching racing, but the grass isn't always greener.



(Plus if we added another moto to Freestone this year, we may have killed some riders!)
Timed is just flat out smarter and better IMO. I like the excitement it brings as riders keep upping the effort in order to get the best time! Its really fun to watch just like F1 in that regardSmile Lots of negatives to running quali's IMO..
c3011
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c3011 10/2/2010 12:33pm
10/2/2010 12:33pm
Rupert X wrote:
We care not what the racers or promoters think - MOTOCROSS FANS ENJOY AND DEMAND RACING QUALIFIERS. Timing is for drag-racing and Bulgarian bordellos. Stopwatches are...


We care not what the racers or promoters think - MOTOCROSS FANS ENJOY AND

DEMAND RACING QUALIFIERS.

Timing is for drag-racing and Bulgarian bordellos.

Stopwatches are faggy, uber-gay and anti-American.

It's Motocross RACING.

There, I said it. Again.
Everyone with the pull (promotors, riders, teams, tv) makes more money (or looses less, depending on who you listen to) if they are in and out in one day, don't expect it to change any time soon. I think it would take a major drop in attendance before they would make moves that would require racing on Sunday in the near future.
Rupert X
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Rupert X 10/2/2010 1:44pm
10/2/2010 1:44pm

Agreed with you timers, the 4 hours of timed-practice is tremendously exciting.

In fact, we should change Loretta's to simply timing vice racing, to prepare the

youngsters for this assault by stopwatch.

One fine day soon, some innovator will announce that we now feature "NEW

Racing Qualifiers!" and we'll all be very impressed and who ever's responsible will be

hailed as a brilliant trendsetter.

Serious biz - if you polled one thousand spectators, two would be too hammered to gurgle

a response - the other 998 would plead for RACING.
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 10/2/2010 1:55pm
10/2/2010 1:55pm
DC wrote:
We start at one pm and end after five. That includes the timeouts. Add up the time outs in a football or baseball game Kinetic against...
We start at one pm and end after five. That includes the timeouts. Add up the time outs in a football or baseball game Kinetic against actual competition in action. We have a lot of action in our window. We are trying to fit more in. And you can watch three hours of practice/timed qualifying.... On the same day.



DC
MX Sports
So now we are football and or baseball? I'm not trying to be a dick Davey and I think you have done a great job with the mess you were given. I'm with Rupert on this one though and you can't call 2 hours plus 8 laps 4 hours. I also don't think there are correct answers to some problems (IE two strokes, I don't think there really is a "right" answer there) but this is one where there is a righ answer and that answer is to go back to qualifying races of some sort. I kinda like Grovers idea but I'm sure there are other solutions as well. I'm not saying you have to televise them I'm just saying you need to have them for those of us that attend the races. We would like to see as much racing as possible in the one day format.
Bill_Carroll
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Bill_Carroll 10/2/2010 2:09pm
10/2/2010 2:09pm
Not to live in the past but I really liked the old (80's) supercross format when you would see riders twice before the main. AKA heat race, semi and then the main. I know STFU, its 2010 man quit living in the past. I am getting old and that’s all I have is the past.

On another note my buddy from Ohio has a son that tries to make pro Nationals at most events and is right there but never gets in because of timed practice. He gets so caught up in trying to make a good lap he screwes it up and misses the cut. It would be nice to see him run a race to see what he could do under no pressure. He has the speed just not the experience.

I vote no timed practice!, but who am I

Pit Row

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powDIRT
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powDIRT 10/2/2010 2:23pm
10/2/2010 2:23pm
Rupert X wrote:
We care not what the racers or promoters think - MOTOCROSS FANS ENJOY AND DEMAND RACING QUALIFIERS. Timing is for drag-racing and Bulgarian bordellos. Stopwatches are...


We care not what the racers or promoters think - MOTOCROSS FANS ENJOY AND

DEMAND RACING QUALIFIERS.

Timing is for drag-racing and Bulgarian bordellos.

Stopwatches are faggy, uber-gay and anti-American.

It's Motocross RACING.

There, I said it. Again.
c3011 wrote:
Everyone with the pull (promotors, riders, teams, tv) makes more money (or looses less, depending on who you listen to) if they are in and out...
Everyone with the pull (promotors, riders, teams, tv) makes more money (or looses less, depending on who you listen to) if they are in and out in one day, don't expect it to change any time soon. I think it would take a major drop in attendance before they would make moves that would require racing on Sunday in the near future.
Two day events suck for fans too.

For example, I live in NJ so I drive to Unadilla and Budds Creek. It's always fun driving up (or down) in the morning, hitting the race and coming home.

I own my own business so working on the weekend is usually a must... So I just cant blow two days on a race, 5 day work weeks are a thing of the past. There are so many people these days that can't afford to attend a 2 day event.
aFACEdismembered 10/2/2010 4:12pm
10/2/2010 4:12pm
powDIRT wrote:
Two day events suck for fans too. For example, I live in NJ so I drive to Unadilla and Budds Creek. It's always fun driving up...
Two day events suck for fans too.

For example, I live in NJ so I drive to Unadilla and Budds Creek. It's always fun driving up (or down) in the morning, hitting the race and coming home.

I own my own business so working on the weekend is usually a must... So I just cant blow two days on a race, 5 day work weeks are a thing of the past. There are so many people these days that can't afford to attend a 2 day event.
I don't see what you're complaining about. We're not talking two day event. Just adding a qualifier race to make it a little more fair (learning the track for new guys, giving more track time for many). Run a private practice Friday evening for each class towards dusk to allow for a qualifier the next morning. I can almost guarantee you the privateers will be there on Friday in force to get track time. Not to mention the track can develop a little before race day.
Fleece192
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Fleece192 10/2/2010 4:21pm
10/2/2010 4:21pm
Timed practice, SUCKS. Its not even racing. The fans that pay to see this sport , not timed practices....but racing.... Come on DC
`ol Ger
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`ol Ger 10/2/2010 5:14pm
10/2/2010 5:14pm
Another reason that MXdN was cool - was the SUNDAY race.
powDIRT
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powDIRT 10/2/2010 10:33pm
10/2/2010 10:33pm
powDIRT wrote:
Two day events suck for fans too. For example, I live in NJ so I drive to Unadilla and Budds Creek. It's always fun driving up...
Two day events suck for fans too.

For example, I live in NJ so I drive to Unadilla and Budds Creek. It's always fun driving up (or down) in the morning, hitting the race and coming home.

I own my own business so working on the weekend is usually a must... So I just cant blow two days on a race, 5 day work weeks are a thing of the past. There are so many people these days that can't afford to attend a 2 day event.
aFACEdismembered wrote:
I don't see what you're complaining about. We're not talking two day event. Just adding a qualifier race to make it a little more fair (learning...
I don't see what you're complaining about. We're not talking two day event. Just adding a qualifier race to make it a little more fair (learning the track for new guys, giving more track time for many). Run a private practice Friday evening for each class towards dusk to allow for a qualifier the next morning. I can almost guarantee you the privateers will be there on Friday in force to get track time. Not to mention the track can develop a little before race day.
I wasn't complaining about it I was just talking about it because it would be an issue that would be brought up inevitably. The post I was replying to was talking about the benefits of being in and out in one day. I was just explaining why it is better for fans.
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 10/2/2010 10:50pm
10/2/2010 10:50pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2010 10:50pm
I miss qualifiers too. Not gonna lie. All nostalgia aside though.
I remember bubba saying that he had a big part in the 1 day deal. Well what if he would of had practice and qualfying at 'Dilla to get his bike more set up for the motos? Idk all I remember is it was always real cool to see the guys come out on saturday after the last of the amatuers and shred the track up.
It was a good chance for all the core fans to run around the track and look from whatever place they wanted to since only 1/8 of the people were there.
Rotax
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Rotax 10/2/2010 11:14pm
10/2/2010 11:14pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2010 11:16pm
grover738 wrote:
Oops, edited my post away. Just so nobody thinks DC is going insane, I suggested that 1-30 gets in from timing, and 31-40 are from the...
Oops, edited my post away. Just so nobody thinks DC is going insane, I suggested that 1-30 gets in from timing, and 31-40 are from the top 10 of a 15 minute qualifier, with the winner of the qualifier getting the 10th overall gate pick.
This is a great idea if it could fit into the one day race format. It would add something to the overall event for sure. It would give some local privateers time to shine while still having a chance to make the show. Spose you could even call it the LCQ. It would be interesting to see who finishes in the top ten over all after coming from the LCQ.
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UAW_member 10/2/2010 11:17pm
10/2/2010 11:17pm
Rupert X wrote:
There will be a rebellion if qualifying races aren't returned soon. Mark my words. 110 % of the privateers, racers, fans, spectators and REAL motocross people...


There will be a rebellion if qualifying races aren't returned soon.

Mark my words.

110 % of the privateers, racers, fans, spectators and REAL motocross people

DEMAND racing.

They truly do.

Timed qualifying is gayer than Richard Simmons in Ocelot gear during a

commercial for Shake-Weights in a Dancing With The Stars break...

Called it first.
This is starting to feel like an old-school tea party movement except we will be tossing energy drinks into the harbor while wearing open-faced Bell helmets because we are high from the sweeeeeeet smell of Cam 2 premix exhaust.

Transponders be damned, let us return to racing the way our founding fathers intended. (Please don't suggest a "second amendment solution" until we get much, much higher on exhaust fumes)
jbond722
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jbond722 10/3/2010 12:03am
10/3/2010 12:03am
Something I'd like to see is a sort of different qualifying. They ran qualifiers until there are only enough left to fill the gate, just like they do at the amatuer nationals. No free passes if your in the points. That way It gives everyone be the privateer or dungey a fair chance at racing in the main event. Quite a few should agree aswell. May even give the privateer a bit more confidence or just that little bit more to push a little harder. Bring real racing back, not this timed stuff.
`ol Ger
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`ol Ger 10/3/2010 5:45am
10/3/2010 5:45am
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 10/3/2010 5:46am
10/3/2010 5:46am
Give it up Ger. Sunday isn't going to happen anymore.
raddad
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raddad 10/3/2010 5:48am
10/3/2010 5:48am
Something that i forgot to add earlier is that i always thought that qualifiers made the racing anticlimactic, especially if two or more of the big hitters were in the same quali. Who wants to see the race before the race starts?! I watch races with a room full of friends and we all felt that way when there was qualifiers..

This reminds me of the "bring back smokers" threads that some people get all worked up over but will never happen on a large scale. I know Rup is good for all these nostalgic causes but i think we are going the right direction considering everything happening these days. I like the centered approach Davey and company have and so far support most of the things they are doing!Smile

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