Why don’t teams use Evan’s Waterless Coolant for mud races?

4/15/2025 1:00pm
Kashby712 wrote:
It doesn’t cool any better, but you’d think having some coolant in there vs. boiling it all out would still buy you more time. Maybe not...

It doesn’t cool any better, but you’d think having some coolant in there vs. boiling it all out would still buy you more time. Maybe not though.

Ryno23 wrote:
Yes and no, like I said earlier, steam is a visual sign that "oh shit, she's getting hot" VS. the internal failures when there is just...

Yes and no, like I said earlier, steam is a visual sign that "oh shit, she's getting hot" VS. the internal failures when there is just too much heat.  I've see head gasket failures with Evans coolant combined with a higher pressure rad cap like almost all the teams run.  Higher BAR pressure is higher coolant pressure which leads to other things giving up.  That means, your race is over immediately where sometimes the rider can ease up when it's steaming to at least get to the finish.  

Evans doesn’t expand and build pressure. You can literally take the cap off a hot bike with Evans

When your coolant is turning to steam, it’s not providing any cooling capacity and it can be boiling in your cylinder head and be a liquid elsewhere in the system. 

people are right though, it doesn’t show a tell tale sign of overheating, but how many people are shutting down their bikes in the middle of a race at the first sign of OH? Riders go till the bike stops. Just because the bike gets hot while you are stuck in this section doesn’t mean you canT get the bike to cool back down in the next open section 

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4/15/2025 1:11pm
Kashby712 wrote:
After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless...

After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless Coolant for extreme mud conditions. It seems like it would be the move, but I’m probably missing some key info.

Any ideas?

Who DNF’d due to a bike blowing up? I don’t think anyone did. 

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Kashby712
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4/15/2025 1:30pm
Kashby712 wrote:
After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless...

After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless Coolant for extreme mud conditions. It seems like it would be the move, but I’m probably missing some key info.

Any ideas?

Who DNF’d due to a bike blowing up? I don’t think anyone did. 

Idk about completely blowing up, but witnessed quite a few pull off cause their clutch was so hot the bike hardly moved. Chiz was one of them.

blusmbl
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4/15/2025 2:54pm
JB 19 wrote:
I'm pretty sure in some forms of car racing they do run straight water for the purpose you pointed out.  Also, because of spills on the...

I'm pretty sure in some forms of car racing they do run straight water for the purpose you pointed out.  Also, because of spills on the pavement, but for heat carrying properties as well.  Obviously they aren't worried about internal corrosion at that level.  It's all about performance.  

It's mandated in some forms of racing because it's easier to clean up water from the racing surface than anything glycol based.

The Shop

lumpy790
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4/15/2025 4:37pm
JB 19 wrote:
I'm pretty sure in some forms of car racing they do run straight water for the purpose you pointed out.  Also, because of spills on the...

I'm pretty sure in some forms of car racing they do run straight water for the purpose you pointed out.  Also, because of spills on the pavement, but for heat carrying properties as well.  Obviously they aren't worried about internal corrosion at that level.  It's all about performance.  

blusmbl wrote:

It's mandated in some forms of racing because it's easier to clean up water from the racing surface than anything glycol based.

At one point EI was approved for Road Racing ….. then RRing organization changed their minds. 

Water with Water Wetter has been the go to for pavement racing but you better drain it when freezing temperatures hit.

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lumpy790
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4/15/2025 5:49pm
twotwosix wrote:

ML, spill the tea... Why did Dave get the axe?

-MAVERICK- wrote:

Long story short, don't threaten to kill people. 

I have had all day to think about this so ...... Please show the proof of your accusations.

I typically sit back and watch all the shit slinging here on vital and not comment but That claim is a bull shit lie.

Dave NEVER threatened to kill anyone. 

A few here on Vital and another website that attacked Dave about his Covid opinion after it killed his father. He watched the ambulance take his father away and he could not even go and see him to say good by.  He may have said that he hoped Covid killed someone but that is it. 100% Wrong to attack on someone at the wrong time. That kind of attacking someone after a death is still happening in the non moto section and it is WRONG. I saw it happen not long ago.

Even as a republican Some did not like his political fact checking on both sides and providing proof of it and they attacked him for that but he never threatened to kill anyone.

It has been years and it is a shame people are still attacking Dave and he can not even come and defend himself or his honor against their accusations.

Dave is a good friend with a vast amount of people in the moto community from way before Vital even existed and he will always be friends with them. The ones that were using him all vanished.

 

Let Dave back in.

 

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Gmyersdork
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4/15/2025 6:02pm
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kb731
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4/15/2025 7:14pm

I worked for a small Supercross team that was sponsored by engine ice, for mud races we did switch to Evans. The engine builder/crew chief who’s decision this was is now running a much larger team but not sure if he is still doing this for their bikes. 

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Kashby712
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4/16/2025 9:52am
kb731 wrote:
I worked for a small Supercross team that was sponsored by engine ice, for mud races we did switch to Evans. The engine builder/crew chief who’s...

I worked for a small Supercross team that was sponsored by engine ice, for mud races we did switch to Evans. The engine builder/crew chief who’s decision this was is now running a much larger team but not sure if he is still doing this for their bikes. 

Cool insight. It's clearly arguable, but it makes sense to switch for mud races for sure.

Ryno23
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4/16/2025 1:02pm
Ryno23 wrote:
The problem with waterless coolant is you don't really know when it is at the overheating point enough to damage an engine.  Waterless coolant simply has...

The problem with waterless coolant is you don't really know when it is at the overheating point enough to damage an engine.  Waterless coolant simply has a much higher boiling point than normal coolant.  As a rider focused on the race they really don't pay attention to the bike being hot.  Even though waterless coolant isn't blowing steam doesn't mean that other parts aren't about to fail in an ugly way.  So if your rider's bike is steaming out there the mechanic can pit board signal to him to ease up.  Also, when they are steaming for a while and then finally quit steaming you know it's about to let go as there isn't any water left to cool it.   

lumpy790 wrote:

Since I am being Switzerland and mediating …… I shared this post with Dave and he said that Ryno23 nailed it.

I met DK at the Vegas SX one year and he seemed like a pretty cool guy to me.  I've been using EI for years with good results.  Only downside I have is the lack of freeze protection where I live so I drain the coolant.  I put a tag on the bars that says NO COOLANT if I get a wild hair to go ride. 

4/16/2025 1:32pm
Kashby712 wrote:
After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless...

After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless Coolant for extreme mud conditions. It seems like it would be the move, but I’m probably missing some key info.

Any ideas?

What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their first rodeo ? So what are they running according to you ? 

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Kashby712
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4/16/2025 1:39pm
Kashby712 wrote:
After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless...

After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless Coolant for extreme mud conditions. It seems like it would be the move, but I’m probably missing some key info.

Any ideas?

lostboy819 wrote:
What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their...

What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their first rodeo ? So what are they running according to you ? 

Many were blowing out steam like train, so I figured they probably weren't running Evans or similar, so I asked the question.

Don't be a tool on the internet, my guy.

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4/16/2025 1:45pm

Hot Queensland summer deep sand track (RIP Coolum) KTM50's we all new you had to run waterless coolant (liquid intelligence)

It was easy to see who hadn't

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4/16/2025 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2025 2:50pm
Kashby712 wrote:
After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless...

After watching tons of riders DNF and struggle to keep bikes alive during the Foxborough SX, I was curious why more teams don’t run Evan’s Waterless Coolant for extreme mud conditions. It seems like it would be the move, but I’m probably missing some key info.

Any ideas?

lostboy819 wrote:
What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their...

What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their first rodeo ? So what are they running according to you ? 

Kashby712 wrote:
Many were blowing out steam like train, so I figured they probably weren't running Evans or similar, so I asked the question.Don't be a tool on...

Many were blowing out steam like train, so I figured they probably weren't running Evans or similar, so I asked the question.

Don't be a tool on the internet, my guy.

I am asking questions just like you because I dont know what they run either, what are they running and who says they are not already running something other than their normal set up. They have to have a plane B for mud races,sorry if it hurts your little feelings.

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Kashby712
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4/16/2025 3:24pm
lostboy819 wrote:
What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their...

What makes you think they are not running Evans or pro cool or any number of other coolants ? You think this mud race was their first rodeo ? So what are they running according to you ? 

Kashby712 wrote:
Many were blowing out steam like train, so I figured they probably weren't running Evans or similar, so I asked the question.Don't be a tool on...

Many were blowing out steam like train, so I figured they probably weren't running Evans or similar, so I asked the question.

Don't be a tool on the internet, my guy.

lostboy819 wrote:
I am asking questions just like you because I dont know what they run either, what are they running and who says they are not already...

I am asking questions just like you because I dont know what they run either, what are they running and who says they are not already running something other than their normal set up. They have to have a plane B for mud races,sorry if it hurts your little feelings.

Mmmhmm, riiiight.

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Evansguy
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Wilmington, DE, USA
4/17/2025 11:18am

I'm always late to the party, but I do get there in the end lol.

As has been stated already, a lot of teams do use Evans Coolant in MX/SX. We've got teams that use it and wear to logo like Phoenix Honda, Factory Beta, MRP/SBR, Partzilla PRMX, and a slew of privateers. You've got the teams that always run Evans, but don't carry the logo like Honda HRP, the yellow bikes, and some others. You've got teams that use antifreeze except in a mud race when they switch to Evans. There are teams that "don't use Evans" (and are vocal about that), but I've seen orders go out to their shops... It's true, you can tell who isn't using Evans in a mud race because they're blowing steam heavily, not just the water/mud cooking off the engine and pipe.

Water, in its liquid state DOES conduct heat better than glycol, BUT water vapor (steam) loses over 90% of that conductivity. Water expands a lot when it converts to vapor, over 1,200 times in size. This expansion power, enough to run a steam engine, will completely vacate the segment of cooling passages that are the hottest like around the exhaust valve area. The metal temperature there spikes by hundreds of degrees creating the hot spots that cause detonation. With this in mind, it's the steam that causes overheating rather than being the indicator that "it's getting too hot".

The exhaust side of the head getting radically hotter than the intake side is what causes a head to warp which is why head gaskets fail when an engine overheats. The cooling system pressure is nothing compared to the combustion pressure on the other side of the head gasket. A cooling system can reach a pressure much higher than the cap rating because boiling can produce more steam than can escape out the 1/4 inch vent line. This high pressure will blow a hose off or release out another weak point, but it won't affect the head gasket.

Engines can handle coolant at a higher temperature; there's nothing magic about the difference between 220F and 240F unless that's where the coolant boils. In pro flat track, they will red flag a race to clean up a crash. The bikes will go from WOT loads to hard shut off in the box and the coolant will heat sink in the engine without any circulation. The factory Indian Team reported an internal coolant temp of 300F in the box (if any fluid hits the ground or a mechanic puts a wrench on the bike, that rider must restart at the back). When they get the go signal, their bikes would fire up no problem and the coolant temperature dropped immediately with circulation and air flow. 

Engine Ice in action
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