Meeting with AMA Al Ludington

MX558
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MX558 8/4/2010 7:51am
8/4/2010 7:51am
JB 19 wrote:
In all honesty, I bought an 06 CR 250 this spring and rode it a lot and thought how sweet it was.........til I got back on...
In all honesty, I bought an 06 CR 250 this spring and rode it a lot and thought how sweet it was.........til I got back on my 450 after 2 months.

You guys can pursue this all you want, bottom line is it is a losing battle. If the cc's were even the 4 strokes would still rule. Just too much usable power and predictable handling.

...............but that CR does sound sweet!
ODB wrote:
seriously ,you believe a 4 stroke makes as much horsepower as a same cc 2 stroke ..........do you read much,take a trip to the snowmobile world...
seriously ,you believe a 4 stroke makes as much horsepower as a same cc 2 stroke ..........do you read much,take a trip to the snowmobile world where 800 ccc 2 strokes are spanking 1200 4 strokes in similar chassis ...no comparison
All I ever raced was 2ts. Its not about how much power but the way its delivered. I had a 52 hp yz 250 in 03 that would crush the 4bangers but you just can't ride it the same. I have bought a couple of 2ts in the past but am way faster on the 450 4t. The 4ts jump better, track better and vibrate way less, just way smoother of a ride. The only thing better is the sound of a 2t, especially going through the whoops. That being said my son is an older beginner (21) and I'm buying him a 125. That's mostly for maintenance issues of the 2504t's. As far as maintenance of the 450 their practically is none. I have friends that have gone years with out even changing the damn plug and yes we all ride moto.
rocrac
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rocrac 8/4/2010 8:10am
8/4/2010 8:10am
125's and 250's. Leave the big bores to the open classes.

This sport has gotten too fast, dangerous and expensive. Maybe the Chinese quality will get better and we can shove the $8,000 4strokes up the big 4's asses. Oh wait it's already happening no one is buying them.
JB 19
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JB 19 8/4/2010 3:49pm
8/4/2010 3:49pm
JB 19 wrote:
In all honesty, I bought an 06 CR 250 this spring and rode it a lot and thought how sweet it was.........til I got back on...
In all honesty, I bought an 06 CR 250 this spring and rode it a lot and thought how sweet it was.........til I got back on my 450 after 2 months.

You guys can pursue this all you want, bottom line is it is a losing battle. If the cc's were even the 4 strokes would still rule. Just too much usable power and predictable handling.

...............but that CR does sound sweet!
ODB wrote:
seriously ,you believe a 4 stroke makes as much horsepower as a same cc 2 stroke ..........do you read much,take a trip to the snowmobile world...
seriously ,you believe a 4 stroke makes as much horsepower as a same cc 2 stroke ..........do you read much,take a trip to the snowmobile world where 800 ccc 2 strokes are spanking 1200 4 strokes in similar chassis ...no comparison
Hey dipshit, I didn't say they make equal power. Show me where I said that. Get out and do some riding......maybe you read TOO much and don't ride enough.
KAWboy14
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KAWboy14 8/4/2010 4:48pm
8/4/2010 4:48pm
burn1986 wrote:
Well, I can honestly say that he is excited at this rule change. The conversation went better than I could have expected. He liked the proposal...
Well, I can honestly say that he is excited at this rule change. The conversation went better than I could have expected. He liked the proposal and stated that it was palatable, since it was not a large change. He went on to mention that he is tired of seeing the cost of the four stroke racing rise and the two stroke disappear. In fact, he stated that it would work better if the rule change said 150 instead of 144 (to which I agreed).

I asked him what the steps were for getting this in place. He said that he would open up discussions with Jeff Canfield (who he has already mentioned it to), Kevin Crowther (sp?) and the people over on the Supercross side. (He said Supercross was important since the FIM was involved). From this point he said he would get his boss involved (the director of AMA Pro Racing) and the decision would be made. He said that they would consider Cost, Safety, and Good for the Sport - Is it cost effective for the racer; Is it safe and doesn't involve danger to the racer and others; and Is it good for the sport.

He asked if I could get him a copy of the petition (another one) and some cost comparisons for the modifications, along with the bikes in production right now that meet this category (which he said that this was actually his job to do, but this would help him a lot if I didn't mind getting it together). John Nicholas has gotten most of this already, so I will gather the information I need and put it all together. I will post it here for suggestions before I send it up.

All in all, it was a very encouraging conversation. I have no doubt that this guy is pro 2-stroke and wants to see it through. He was genuinely excited at the possibility of this thing getting approved since this rule would transcend over to Road Racing and other disciplines as well.

I know it's kind of hard to relay how a conversation went, but we both are confident that it will happen. The tone I got from him was that the AMA seems refreshed by the idea and is also aware that there is a growing problem with mx and sx, mainly the racing costs to the individual racer.

So, I will begin getting this stuff together and post it here.

It's still important to keep spreading the word about the petition. I would like to get about 2000 signatures. Man, that would be awesome:

www.gopetition.com/petition/38076.html

Thanks,
Mark Slate
it doesnt matter if they can make them or not....the united states government doesnt want them in this country. it has nothing to do with the motorcycle manufacturing industry or the racing industry!

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UAW_member
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UAW_member 8/4/2010 4:54pm
8/4/2010 4:54pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
it doesnt matter if they can make them or not....the united states government doesnt want them in this country. it has nothing to do with the...
it doesnt matter if they can make them or not....the united states government doesnt want them in this country. it has nothing to do with the motorcycle manufacturing industry or the racing industry!
Fucking liberals suck ass.
BIGHEAD1
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BIGHEAD1 8/4/2010 5:06pm
8/4/2010 5:06pm
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a 350 two stroke against 450's right now at your local track. What more do you want? If people that are buying bikes to race them wanted two-strokes or cheaper bikes they can have them right now, no problem. Hell you can buy a 250 two-stroke and race two classes on it. But wait! people still don't buy them and that's the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize. All your claims go out the window because unless you are racing pro nationals everything you guys are demanding is happening right now..

This will go ignored as usual.



JB 19
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JB 19 8/4/2010 5:31pm
8/4/2010 5:31pm
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a...
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a 350 two stroke against 450's right now at your local track. What more do you want? If people that are buying bikes to race them wanted two-strokes or cheaper bikes they can have them right now, no problem. Hell you can buy a 250 two-stroke and race two classes on it. But wait! people still don't buy them and that's the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize. All your claims go out the window because unless you are racing pro nationals everything you guys are demanding is happening right now..

This will go ignored as usual.



I'm listening.....and agreeing. And as far as maintenance, I have rode Honda 450's since late 03 and the only part I have had to buy was a water pump seal. No pistons, rings, cylinders, valves etc

I average one ride a week and take meticulous care of my bikes. Beyond that I don't know what to say..................
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 8/4/2010 6:08pm
8/4/2010 6:08pm
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a...
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a 350 two stroke against 450's right now at your local track. What more do you want? If people that are buying bikes to race them wanted two-strokes or cheaper bikes they can have them right now, no problem. Hell you can buy a 250 two-stroke and race two classes on it. But wait! people still don't buy them and that's the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize. All your claims go out the window because unless you are racing pro nationals everything you guys are demanding is happening right now..

This will go ignored as usual.



Not many people are buying new 4 strokes either by the looks of my local dealers . Pretty much nothing used either because no one is trading them in. The whole sales landscape is different . A few years ago there were plenty of used bikes to buy .
newmann
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newmann 8/4/2010 6:27pm
8/4/2010 6:27pm
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a...
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a 350 two stroke against 450's right now at your local track. What more do you want? If people that are buying bikes to race them wanted two-strokes or cheaper bikes they can have them right now, no problem. Hell you can buy a 250 two-stroke and race two classes on it. But wait! people still don't buy them and that's the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize. All your claims go out the window because unless you are racing pro nationals everything you guys are demanding is happening right now..

This will go ignored as usual.



"the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize"

is that we typically are not dogging the 450's other than being obnoxiously loud overweight pigs.

is that little Johnny only wants what the pros ride but little Johnny's famiy can't afford to keep the 250F running for raceday. And neither can all the Scott Champions and Josh Clarks. Damn shame there are top 20 prospects missing the gate beause they are priced out of the sport with 250F's.

is that pro motocross could really use a 125 class.

is that Honda does not want a competitive 2 stroke on the track, it might make their unreliable 250F look bad.
mxpilot43 8/4/2010 6:41pm
8/4/2010 6:41pm
BIGHEAD1 wrote:
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a...
I have said this a million times. You can buy and race a two stroke right now and race it against 250f's. You can race a 350 two stroke against 450's right now at your local track. What more do you want? If people that are buying bikes to race them wanted two-strokes or cheaper bikes they can have them right now, no problem. Hell you can buy a 250 two-stroke and race two classes on it. But wait! people still don't buy them and that's the problem you fucking retards constantly fail to realize. All your claims go out the window because unless you are racing pro nationals everything you guys are demanding is happening right now..

This will go ignored as usual.



i dont know where your riding but i see more smokers at the track every time i go, so maybe thats why your being ignored.
txmxer
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txmxer 8/4/2010 6:42pm
8/4/2010 6:42pm
All I know is that I'm 125% on board with Newmann that losing the 125 class has hurt MX.
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 8/4/2010 6:49pm
8/4/2010 6:49pm
txmxer wrote:
All I know is that I'm 125% on board with Newmann that losing the 125 class has hurt MX.
It absolutely has . Its the true entry level class to the big bikes and teaches you how to ride a full size bike . You have to keep your momentum and its way more difficult to make up for mistakes .
MX558
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MX558 8/5/2010 8:16am
8/5/2010 8:16am
The economy is the reason know one is buying bikes, and yes the bikes are way over priced but who pays retail any way. I paid less for my 09 450 than I did for my 06, fuck I paid $100 less than I paid for my yz250 in 03 and I got a deal on that. Their are deals out there you just have to look. The reason used bikes aren't selling is the new ones are so cheap, I mean 5k for a new 450 is amazing.
wardy
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wardy 8/5/2010 9:38am
8/5/2010 9:38am
it would be "amazing" if they sold them msrp for that 5k. but instead they nick some fools who have to have the "latest" another 3k. they then cry a river because they can't sell them and drop the price to move them out of the way to try again the next year with yet another 8k bike.

lets invert the motor, or do something else that don't matter and justify it.


wait

sorry that is marketing. iambad.

Pit Row

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