Eye-Opening Observation at recent Amateur MX-Where's the future??

rocrac
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Indianapolis, IN, USA
6/30/2010 10:39am
All righty then, I’m a Cobra dealer I see the 50 and 65 world day in and day out. I really enjoy the work and watching...
All righty then,

I’m a Cobra dealer I see the 50 and 65 world day in and day out. I really enjoy the work and watching the kids have fun living the dream. Now sometimes the 50 parents can make things interesting.

I’d like to offer a few observations from years of racing and being around the 50s and 65s

1. Cost has quadrupled no doubt, the price of a Cobra and KTM just price tons of riders out of the class.
2. The Lead ban saw a serious drop in riders, parents had fear of buying a bike that will be illegal to own and ride.
3. Competition! In the early 90’s everyone rode a PW or trail bike, it leveled the field. Little RiderX didn’t get lapped by the whole field every gate. Once the Cobra bike took the track even average riders against the PW or XR could destroy the class. Leaving little RiderX feeling crappy and parents looking for a more warm and fuzzy sport for their rider. I still see it today, these bikes are so good, riders develop faster if they have the skill, but those that races for fun are left with nowhere to get that feeling of victory.
4. Speeds, with so many riding top quality race bike the speeds have increased. This leaves the parents wondering if little riderX should race. They have true fear seeing a 50 hit a step up double pinned.

As the bikes got better, the cost went up and the risk was amplified into the public eye. Now we are nearly dare devils to Joe Public. Our industry has backed itself into a corner, not allowing class structures that develop riders, not handling but allowing bikes to be modified to the point they bring fear to the outside observer. Instead of finding a way to monitor and control mod bikes we see whole classes for even 4-6 riders and the complete dilution of the PW and XR bikes.

I’d like to see a wide spread restructure of the classes, resulting in the development of our youth riders. I’m mainly talking of the 50 class.



Excellent post.
Sondy132001
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6/30/2010 10:41am
One thing the MX promoters may want to consider is the idea of "Track Bucks" that are used in BMX. At the tracks around here, entry...
One thing the MX promoters may want to consider is the idea of "Track Bucks" that are used in BMX. At the tracks around here, entry is usually either $7 for points only or $9 for either a trophy or Track Bucks. Your finish in the Main determines how many Track Bucks you get ($5 for 1st, $4 for 2nd, etc.). The track bucks can then be used for entry fees, at the concession stand, etc. and since they are tied to your NBL license, can be used at other facilities.

Of course, this would require the AMA to be involved (or some other enterprising organization) since you would need to attach the bucks to an account.

It's a fairly simple system that helps defray the costs of racing and provides an immediate return for doing well.
I have CMC Bucks instead of trophies you get money towards your next entry or membership, also my membership is $40 for the year and I allow people to pay it in payments, you can put a minimum of $5.00 down and pay it that way till you're done or pay more if you can.

S
rocrac
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6/30/2010 10:50am
Interestingly enough the thread starter here promoted a race 5 or 6 years ago that had 5 classes if I remember.

The big bikes got 20 min. + 2 laps while the minis got 15 min + 2

Best event I had ever been to and I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
6/30/2010 11:02am
wardy wrote:
Oh and you can't work at Mcdonalds, buy a bike, race, and have enough money to pay any bills today. back in the 70's I was...
Oh and you can't work at Mcdonalds, buy a bike, race, and have enough money to pay any bills today.

back in the 70's I was a oil change, car wash dude at 17, at the local car dealership. I barely made enough to race on, but it was done. work 6 days a week to race on sunday.


today that simply isn't possible. price of bikes is really high, and it's not the dealers fault but rather non forward thinking oem's who rather raise prices and block sales of cheaper product then to increase numbers.

this is a 10 pager.....
The sport in the early 80's had full gates of 125s and 250s. You had to qualify for the second moto. I purchased a "83 YZ125 leftover for $1,400. Kids changed their own top ends on their air cooled 100s. I can't imagine the cost of racing today. I have a great time on my crf250x. Rode it 65 miles the other day. No entry fees, no broken parts and hours of seat time.

The Shop

user760a
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Shelby, NC, USA
6/30/2010 11:08am

FYI- I own a KX450F and have not ridden a 2 stroke in a few years.I am NOT a four stroke hater .


There are many reasons that amature MX is declining, but if I had to narrow it down to the single greatest factor that has had a negative impact on the sport and caused this decline, it would haved to be four stroke bikes.

The noise has killed a HUGE number of tracks and riding areas. I cannot overstate this- it has been the single worst thing that has happened because of four strokes. There are very very few places left to ride and those places are continually under assault (due to noise)

The cost of the four stroke bikes is another factor- no further explaination needed.

The complexity and cost of repair of four strokes is another huge, if overlooked factor. Sure, it is easy enough for any of us seasoned motoheads to fix a thumper engine, but what about the 15 year old kid who is trying to maintain and repair his 250F with limited guidance the way many of us (barely) managed to do on our 125's? It is a confusing, complex and costly endeavor for those who are not already into it

all I can say is THANK GOD the other manufacturers did not follow Honda's last idiotic step taken seemingly to cement the destruction of motocross. Yes, I am talking about the demise of the CR85 and the introduction of the CRF150 piglet. What a stupid move, further proof that Honda is not to be looked at as a leader in this industry.

I honestly think the serious injury rate is a side effect of four strokes , also. Increased speeds mean bigger, badder crashes.

I wish it were possible to kill all four strokes and bring back the 125 and 250 two stroke to rule the MX and off road world happily ever after

Sondy132001
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6/30/2010 11:12am
user760a wrote:
FYI- I own a KX450F and have not ridden a 2 stroke in a few years.I am NOT a four stroke hater . There are many...

FYI- I own a KX450F and have not ridden a 2 stroke in a few years.I am NOT a four stroke hater .


There are many reasons that amature MX is declining, but if I had to narrow it down to the single greatest factor that has had a negative impact on the sport and caused this decline, it would haved to be four stroke bikes.

The noise has killed a HUGE number of tracks and riding areas. I cannot overstate this- it has been the single worst thing that has happened because of four strokes. There are very very few places left to ride and those places are continually under assault (due to noise)

The cost of the four stroke bikes is another factor- no further explaination needed.

The complexity and cost of repair of four strokes is another huge, if overlooked factor. Sure, it is easy enough for any of us seasoned motoheads to fix a thumper engine, but what about the 15 year old kid who is trying to maintain and repair his 250F with limited guidance the way many of us (barely) managed to do on our 125's? It is a confusing, complex and costly endeavor for those who are not already into it

all I can say is THANK GOD the other manufacturers did not follow Honda's last idiotic step taken seemingly to cement the destruction of motocross. Yes, I am talking about the demise of the CR85 and the introduction of the CRF150 piglet. What a stupid move, further proof that Honda is not to be looked at as a leader in this industry.

I honestly think the serious injury rate is a side effect of four strokes , also. Increased speeds mean bigger, badder crashes.

I wish it were possible to kill all four strokes and bring back the 125 and 250 two stroke to rule the MX and off road world happily ever after

I believe Honda brought the 150, because parents were screaming, going from an 85 to a 250f is scary in my eyes.

S
user760a
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6/30/2010 11:13am
OH, and you guys who have quit moto racing for other garden variety passtimes. shame on you. Go get some handguards and enter an off road race. You will certainly get your moneys worth at a 2 hour off road race and the scene more down to earth (literally)

I thought off road racing would be boring but entered a GNCC last year on a last minute whim. I found it to be more like a 2 hour motocross race and loved it from the getgo. give it a try.
ehr400
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Britton, MI, USA
6/30/2010 11:48am
I remember when I was in HS and shortly after it wasnt uncommon to be able to afford a 125 and a 250. this was inthe 90's. Now I see alot of guys being able to barely keeping one bike going and it is 2 years old because they cant afford a new one. Bike prices have risen alot.

Myself and my group of friends ride alot of practice tracks. Mainly because we can ride and be out. Same with riding GNCC races or hare scramble. I still love MX but waiting the whole day to ride for 20 minutes sucks.
mjskier
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USA
6/30/2010 12:52pm
It's funny you guys say there are too many classes, trust me I agree but then I get so many parents asking for more classes, they want their kids to race more in the days events, 1-2 classes in a race day isn't enough, so how do I as a promoter make everyone happy ? I don't...people complain there's not enough, people complain there's too much.


Just a thought, I'd be curious to know how many of these parents want more classes because by having more specialized ones, you get more chances for your kid to get a trophy.

The problem is that you only have so many hours in day, and the more classes you have, the shorter they have to be. Trying to run both adult and kid classes in one day is a recipe for making everybody unhappy. I suppose you could split days, with Saturday for kids and Sunday for adults. But a lot of parents only get Sunday off, so that won't really work. And families where both kids and parents race are stuck for the entire weekend.
Ryno784
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Cambridge City, IN, USA
6/30/2010 2:00pm
rocrac wrote:
Interestingly enough the thread starter here promoted a race 5 or 6 years ago that had 5 classes if I remember. The big bikes got 20...
Interestingly enough the thread starter here promoted a race 5 or 6 years ago that had 5 classes if I remember.

The big bikes got 20 min. + 2 laps while the minis got 15 min + 2

Best event I had ever been to and I wasn't the only one who felt that way.
Thanks for the compliment Roc. I did have an abbreviated class structure at the Midwest Championships but ran most of the classes. Difference was timed motos so everyone got PLENTY of track time, multiple practices, and a schedule so that you could see what time your moto was on a given day and hang at the pool in between.

It was brutal racing, a great prep for Lorettas and a great turnout. The good thing is I actually trademarked the event, so I own it. I've let D15 run it and rotate it around the tracks while I was away, but the format was what was unique and they don't have my format anymore.

I'd like to bring it back next year and hold it somewhere like Midway as the only race held at that track all year. No home turf advantage. However, with turnouts like they are I'm not sure I'm willing to take the financial risk involved. I mean we had nice payouts and people from all over, I'm not sure they'd come...I'm glad you remember that race, it was done right and we delivered everything we promised.
Lightning78
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Huntington Beach, CA, USA
6/30/2010 2:38pm
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are...
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are hitting another sport. I know this has been brought up before, all these topics are in cycles, but the bikes are way too expensive, racing, practice has stayed the same prices for years, bikes are astronomical and people just can't afford to buy them. Then you have practice which is killing racing.

I have a group of friends, they love to call themselves racers, they don't race, they practice, they are practicers not racers plain and simple =)

S
Sondra I will have to disagree with you on one things....price for practice HAS gone up......beck in 03 practice was 15...then Saddleback came in and upped the ante to 20, now we are at 25 each session with friggin memberships!

As for racers that just parctice.....hell with the cost of gas going up all the time and the fact that even paying 25 to get in all the riding you can vs 80 for 2 6-8 lap moto's the 25 bucks is just a better value for a casual rider......racing, especially a few series can get expensive quick with memberships to different tracks and clubs and AMA memberships gate fees and race fes ... a lot aren't working either which has most likely caused the pull back from racing and just riding when you can
team186
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Danville, KY, USA
6/30/2010 2:42pm
Podium One in southern IN is still VERY OPEN, we were there last weekend. Ponca Q event with riders from a dozen states, including a very fast Jason Anderson from NM and a super fast youth rider named Jace Owen from IL. Podium One is a top notch facility and it gets ROUGH!!

Talked at length with track owner he said if your not having a LL or Ponca Q there is no local crowds left. He said he might be better off to convert track back to stock car facility if turnouts don't improve. He is very frustruated at this point but plans to finish season of MX, hope he gets a 2011 LL Area Q again or re-think options over winter. Podium One and their owners are class acts. We need to support tracks like this that give us prime places to play.

But it got me thinking living here in KY/ TN/ IN region, once March 15 hits we have LL areas going in three regions ME/ SE and NC. That's 24 races sucking entire spring from Mar 15 to May 15, throw in regionals and month of June is a dead-stick for local racing. All I hear all spring is who going to what area, getting into three regions, etc. Local race series are dead around here until after June, by then its too hot to get anyone out to race, guys that made to LL, stop racing after regionals, to get ready for LL (avoid getting hurt).

Same tracks that have an Area Q, will have 900 one weekend and 85 riders next when they try their own race. We went to Ballance for Area, huge crowd, next race 85. Daniel Boone massive area Q, next race 61....good for victory sports, try being to food vendor....

I know both track (Ballance and Podium One) owners well, and both have said same sentence...one Area Q and 7 bad races, is still an OK year...neither track set more than 8 races for this year

Rumors on another board Boone might of canceled rest of year after turnouts of 28 and 12?? Can't be true!! Ballance is having a major concert in August and has recently has dropped all summer racing events. Four races and concert for such a great facility???

I agree with what I'm hearing here, there are NO youth riders on deck, outside of national guys and local racing is in trouble. That means more trcaks gone after this year.

Families and cash on hand is part of problem. Everyone of us knew the guys credit card racing in the mid-90's and now they are gone out of the sport. When the sport was healthy, it was in trouble if that's how you were racing. Throw in $7,000 bikes and the HSBC plans that strapped riders we all know and you can't feel sorry for the OEM's. Racers spend entire spring going to Areas and Regionals and are broke by end of June.

The sport is sick, but I expect like every year a MXSports Press Release on how healthy the sport is..."20,000 riders at 2010 Area Q's...."

Maybe the Area Q's should be reduced to 4 per region or one per state or multiple region qualifing eliminated to open room for spring local racing.

Or, have one Area Q in each state, race areas all on same weekends at whatever tracks, assign each state to region and have regionals all on same weekend (like it used to be). Open back up at least 15 weekends for local tracks...

Hoping the OEM's get bike prices back in line...no chance!!

If my three favorite tracks Boone/ Ballance and Podium One ever close, the sport is dead here in Kentuckiana....if it's not already.








brocster
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Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
6/30/2010 2:45pm

for our area the only new people I see coming into the sport are firends and family members of people that do it already and they usually buy a used bike from the person that gets them into it and then leave once they get hurt or have to shell out too much money. I don't see too many people racing anymore mainly because of what you get in return for racing 3 to 4 people. ( I'm talking too much time wasted at the track sitting around) I know I don't do it. I used to race just about every weekend cause that was the only time you could get on he track. Most of the tracks were owned and operated by someone that owned or worked at a shop or owned the land already. When others started buying land and building tracks as a business they had to be open as much as they could to pay the mortgage and that seems to be the birth of practice tracks where people felt as though they could get there money and times worth of riding and leave with a smile. These people such as myself became known as pro practicers and I still do it today for the reasons above. Once I realized that I was not going to be the next John Dowd I have pretty much given the racing up in lieu of practicing because I love riding my motorcycle on a motocross track. I give props to all racers that are sticking it out sitting through all the classes on race day with the dream of making it for the future doesn't look bright when you can take 15th place finish payout at a national and wipe your ass with it as it seems that's all it's worth. The debt incurred to get there (in every way including the 50 class, injuries, travlel etc.) is out the roof...

Sondy132001
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Mission Viejo, CA, USA
7/1/2010 11:34am
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are...
From a promoters point of view...this is a bad thing (no 50's etc.) if you aren't getting the kids at a young age then they are hitting another sport. I know this has been brought up before, all these topics are in cycles, but the bikes are way too expensive, racing, practice has stayed the same prices for years, bikes are astronomical and people just can't afford to buy them. Then you have practice which is killing racing.

I have a group of friends, they love to call themselves racers, they don't race, they practice, they are practicers not racers plain and simple =)

S
Sondra I will have to disagree with you on one things....price for practice HAS gone up......beck in 03 practice was 15...then Saddleback came in and upped...
Sondra I will have to disagree with you on one things....price for practice HAS gone up......beck in 03 practice was 15...then Saddleback came in and upped the ante to 20, now we are at 25 each session with friggin memberships!

As for racers that just parctice.....hell with the cost of gas going up all the time and the fact that even paying 25 to get in all the riding you can vs 80 for 2 6-8 lap moto's the 25 bucks is just a better value for a casual rider......racing, especially a few series can get expensive quick with memberships to different tracks and clubs and AMA memberships gate fees and race fes ... a lot aren't working either which has most likely caused the pull back from racing and just riding when you can
I don't run practice but I do understand, my "racing" prices have not changed. As far as memberships, I believe it has to do with lawsuits (less of them).

S

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