Mountain Biking Cross-Satisfaction?

DoctorJD
Posts
2979
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Somewhere in..., GA, USA
8/9/2024 11:59am
OwenJakes wrote:
hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a...

hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a blast. Couple questions:

1. I run my fork at 105 PSI and the shock is at 225 for me at 215 pounds. The bike is awesome but when I get into rocky sections where the tires can "fit" the bike really gets pogo-y. For example, if I am climbing and find some rocks or roots, the bike almost comes to a stop. Can I get away from this by setup or do I just need to address it with skill/approach? I had to do so much walking lol. I hope this makes sense. It's like the bike falls into a wheel chock and just stops me. If I were going faster it would be fine but you can only climb so fast after 15 miles.

2. Does everyone else have insane amounts of pedal strikes? Am I too heavy? I have a bout 2" of clearance when I am one pedal down one pedal up. If I have to do any of the climbing mentioned in #1 above, I just pedal strike and destroy my feet. These issues are pretty related obviously. I cannot climb faster because I cant pedal! ahaha.

 

Anyways, I love the bike. Still, it's not a dirtbike, but man is it fun. I am in louisville for a conference and I could come to the area a day early with the bike no problem. This would have been impossible with a dirtbike.

SoCalMX70 wrote:
Without knowing what suspension you're running, It appears to be about right on air pressure (it's usually around half your weight on the forks and around...

Without knowing what suspension you're running, It appears to be about right on air pressure (it's usually around half your weight on the forks and around the same as your weight on shock). You can play with the adjusters a bit, but I'm going to say this is 90% skill related. Look up some videos on YouTube. There's a ton of good guidance out there for any skill level.

To avoid pedal strikes while climbing uneven/chunky terrain you need to anticipate your foot position and may have to do some half pedals (go half a crank, back pedal and re-crank on the same side) to get past those tight spots.

Agree. Also needs to set the sag. It's fine to start with the recommended air pressure for your weight, but setting the sag is as important as it is on a dirt bike. I would start with the compression and rebound settings at the mid-way point and then tweak from there. On my newest bike, the only thing I did was to set the sag and slow down the rebound 2 clicks as it was a bit bouncy. 

I agree with you, as this is likely less about suspension setup and more about skill and line selection. No disrespect, riding uphill tech is one of the most difficult skills to master. I also ride east coast tech and it takes a while to figure it out. It's about being smooth and learning to keep that power to the ground while unloading the front of the bike to get over that crap. Oh, and picking the right line is imperative. 

3
GrapeApe
Posts
9065
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX, USA
8/9/2024 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2024 12:47pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Are you on flat pedals or clipless?Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a...

Are you on flat pedals or clipless?

Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a climb setting or the ability to add damping on the fly? 

Hard to diagnose without knowing your equipment and I forget which bike you ended up with. I assume it is somewhere in this 12 pager. lol

OwenJakes wrote:
Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs...

Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs on that trail. 

Yes it has a lockout on a lever. Will this help me get up chunky sections? I always use it for trips to and from the trailhead lol

Ah yes the Jeffsy, great bike!

I would have a hard time on really rough climbs with flats. I tend to get out of the saddle and depend on the "pull" stroke with my back foot as much as the "push" stroke with the front. It adds more power but also pulls the back tire up and over rocks when I'm stalling out. Clipless is second nature to me so as long as I drop my seat post the drops and descents aren't any different than riding flats.

Having to choose between open or locked out is tough for climbs, I have a middle position I use for climbing. Try the lockout and see if it helps with the pedal strikes. If it does you may be sagging too much under power and need to go stiffer on the shock. Have you checked the sag?

 

2
cwtoyota
Posts
2416
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
8/9/2024 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2024 1:43pm
OwenJakes wrote:
hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a...

hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a blast. Couple questions:

1. I run my fork at 105 PSI and the shock is at 225 for me at 215 pounds. The bike is awesome but when I get into rocky sections where the tires can "fit" the bike really gets pogo-y. For example, if I am climbing and find some rocks or roots, the bike almost comes to a stop. Can I get away from this by setup or do I just need to address it with skill/approach? I had to do so much walking lol. I hope this makes sense. It's like the bike falls into a wheel chock and just stops me. If I were going faster it would be fine but you can only climb so fast after 15 miles.

2. Does everyone else have insane amounts of pedal strikes? Am I too heavy? I have a bout 2" of clearance when I am one pedal down one pedal up. If I have to do any of the climbing mentioned in #1 above, I just pedal strike and destroy my feet. These issues are pretty related obviously. I cannot climb faster because I cant pedal! ahaha.

 

Anyways, I love the bike. Still, it's not a dirtbike, but man is it fun. I am in louisville for a conference and I could come to the area a day early with the bike no problem. This would have been impossible with a dirtbike.

Riding technique is probably a bigger part of it.  If you carry speed and preload over some of those holes and bumps that will help you the most.
Just ride more like Jett Lawrence or Christophe Pourcelle...          Easy, right?  😂 


Watch some downhill racing, especially amateurs and crash reels.  I've noticed that one of the common crash modes is to go OTB / Endonesia when the front wheel basically sticks in a hole or on a rock, root or bump under light braking.    The forks compress and then as soon as the rider and bike go beyond the point of no return, the forks finally rebound.

I think you can tune some of that out with pressure and clickers.   Also, don't be afraid to experiment with volume reducers in your air chamber...

I'm not super experienced on lots of modern mountain bikes, but what I see in cycling is that lots of suspension tunes have more spring than damping.   Cyclists want the bike to feel playful and light and to be efficient.   A bike that is overdamped will probably feel stuck to the ground and heavy since you can't preload and get as much of that energy back to pop over some stuff or pump through bermed corners and rollers.

I revalved one set of my own bicycle air forks to give me a more moto-ish feel.  I get more hold-up on gnarly stuff to address the issue even though I'm running a lower pressure than I was with the stock valving.  I haven't played with valving on my coil spring forks, but I'm significantly faster in technical trails on the revalved air fork.   

Most of the premium late model bicycle forks have a huge adjustment range within the clickers... Write down your setting and go experiment with your clickers and volume spacers.

Climbing you just have to pop over some stuff...  lighten up your front end and preload the rear, then as your rear tire hits a root, rock or short ledge, you can transfer weight to your front wheel and let the rear almost float over the object on momentum.   It took me a few months to understand the timing of this technique and now, two years into mountain biking, I'd say I'm reasonably good at it.

1
SoCalMX70
Posts
3593
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
8/9/2024 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2024 9:46pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Are you on flat pedals or clipless?Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a...

Are you on flat pedals or clipless?

Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a climb setting or the ability to add damping on the fly? 

Hard to diagnose without knowing your equipment and I forget which bike you ended up with. I assume it is somewhere in this 12 pager. lol

OwenJakes wrote:
Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs...

Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs on that trail. 

Yes it has a lockout on a lever. Will this help me get up chunky sections? I always use it for trips to and from the trailhead lol

I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've ever felt the need to lock it on any climb. Barely moves when I'm pedaling, but uses up the travel perfectly when I'm descending.

Play around with it. Keep riding. It'll all come to you.

Edit: Also saw a few comments about momentum. This is absolutely a huge part of it as well. I always kind of "hit the afterburners" right before a ledge or rocks I need to get over when climbing, then I lean back lift the front over, then pop off the seat slightly and get the rear over.

I'm flat pedals for life btw...

2

The Shop

Rotaholic
Posts
1782
Joined
4/2/2013
Location
NZ
8/9/2024 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/9/2024 2:27pm

You want a really dead rebound, do the drop test lol, I normally like to run compression close to full open as the mtb dampers are still pretty primitive. Set rear shock sag at 30% then ride slowly and bounce on the pedals to get the fork balanced to squash at the same rate as the shock. Don't set fork sag but you can run a quicker rebound on the fork if the trail requires. 

Once you have that dialed it's all technique, pedal strikes is normally poor timing. 

Falcon
Posts
12602
Joined
11/16/2011
Location
Menifee, CA, USA
8/9/2024 2:37pm

^ I agree with all the above. Regarding your pedal strikes, try to time the pedals and don't be afraid to rock the bike back and forth a little so your pedal stroke is angled to the ground. (Lean the the left when your right pedal is going down and vice-versa.) You can gain a tiny bit of clearance that way. Pretty soon, you'll develop some "pedal awareness" that you probably don't have right now, and that will help.

Also, regarding sag, I like to set mine to a percentage, not to a PSI rating. Your Jeffsy probably has an o-ring on the fork and shock and some printed percentages of travel. I run mine right at 30% sag at both ends and tune with the clickers. 

 

5
Spooner
Posts
2483
Joined
1/8/2011
Location
Kansas City, MO, USA
8/10/2024 8:18pm

Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at one of many trail systems in my area in less than 30 min, and very little maintenance in between. Not to mention it's an absolute blast to ride haha!  Went to a newer place today for the first time and had a total blast.

 

IMG 5985
6
matze
Posts
2422
Joined
3/1/2014
Location
Stuttgart, DE
8/10/2024 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/10/2024 8:57pm
Spooner wrote:
Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at...

Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at one of many trail systems in my area in less than 30 min, and very little maintenance in between. Not to mention it's an absolute blast to ride haha!  Went to a newer place today for the first time and had a total blast.

 

IMG 5985

Absolutely! Just like carson brown said in an interview at washougal, mountainbiking is just moto without an engine. SOO much fun. Cant get enough of it.

What I also like is the contrast between full action and pure silence and just enjoying the views up in the mountains.

 

IMG 20240624 154850.jpg?VersionId=QWrKQGkCAkqJ
9
OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/12/2024 1:00pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Are you on flat pedals or clipless?Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a...

Are you on flat pedals or clipless?

Is your rear suspension squatting too much while climbing causing the pedal strikes? If so does your shock have a climb setting or the ability to add damping on the fly? 

Hard to diagnose without knowing your equipment and I forget which bike you ended up with. I assume it is somewhere in this 12 pager. lol

OwenJakes wrote:
Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs...

Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs on that trail. 

Yes it has a lockout on a lever. Will this help me get up chunky sections? I always use it for trips to and from the trailhead lol

SoCalMX70 wrote:
I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've...

I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've ever felt the need to lock it on any climb. Barely moves when I'm pedaling, but uses up the travel perfectly when I'm descending.

Play around with it. Keep riding. It'll all come to you.

Edit: Also saw a few comments about momentum. This is absolutely a huge part of it as well. I always kind of "hit the afterburners" right before a ledge or rocks I need to get over when climbing, then I lean back lift the front over, then pop off the seat slightly and get the rear over.

I'm flat pedals for life btw...

Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to hop off fast. I think I just have dunning-kruger skill inflation cause im good on a moto bike. I probably suck but have inflated skills in the jumping, cardio, and bike control departments lol. Maybe when i go to a bike park ill pay for some training. I bet that would be a great investment.

Dude i absolutely ate it on one of the trails too. Took my first real OTB slam it was fantastic lol

3
cwtoyota
Posts
2416
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
8/12/2024 3:36pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs...

Hahaha I got the jeffsy. It’s great. I’m on flats. If I was clipped in I would actually be dead from yesterday. Some insane drop offs on that trail. 

Yes it has a lockout on a lever. Will this help me get up chunky sections? I always use it for trips to and from the trailhead lol

SoCalMX70 wrote:
I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've...

I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've ever felt the need to lock it on any climb. Barely moves when I'm pedaling, but uses up the travel perfectly when I'm descending.

Play around with it. Keep riding. It'll all come to you.

Edit: Also saw a few comments about momentum. This is absolutely a huge part of it as well. I always kind of "hit the afterburners" right before a ledge or rocks I need to get over when climbing, then I lean back lift the front over, then pop off the seat slightly and get the rear over.

I'm flat pedals for life btw...

OwenJakes wrote:
Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to...

Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to hop off fast. I think I just have dunning-kruger skill inflation cause im good on a moto bike. I probably suck but have inflated skills in the jumping, cardio, and bike control departments lol. Maybe when i go to a bike park ill pay for some training. I bet that would be a great investment.

Dude i absolutely ate it on one of the trails too. Took my first real OTB slam it was fantastic lol

I've been into MTB two years and the skills eventually translate over.   Friends I've made mountain biking are always surprised by my speed, especially on a 26" bike.   You get a sense of what you can and cannot get away with the more you ride and I'd bet your cardio does improve if you're consistent.

The remaining skills I want to learn are to be able to "manual" (long balance wheelies) and to hit the BMX style manmade jumps.  I think some direct coaching would be a huge benefit on the jumps...   Manualing just requires practice and there are plenty of Youtube videos showing how to learn to manual.

"clipless" (lock-in) pedals seem like a death-wish to me.    I go plenty fast on a set of quality flat pedals...     I lost my feet a bunch in my first six months of MTB, then figure some things out and re-tuned my suspension for gnarly / technical downhill and XC riding.   I'm worried about the extra torque on my reconstructed ACL to risk trying clipless pedals.   I'm also unwilling to try an open-face helmet.  🤣

8/12/2024 3:49pm

There has been some really good advice on the last page or so. I was going to chime in with some great info from my 30 plus years of MTBing training for moto. But no need. Some really good input! 

2
OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/12/2024 8:00pm
SoCalMX70 wrote:
I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've...

I own a 2021 Jeffsy Core 4. Such a great bike! Not saying it won't help, but the Jeffsy just isn't that "squishy" to where I've ever felt the need to lock it on any climb. Barely moves when I'm pedaling, but uses up the travel perfectly when I'm descending.

Play around with it. Keep riding. It'll all come to you.

Edit: Also saw a few comments about momentum. This is absolutely a huge part of it as well. I always kind of "hit the afterburners" right before a ledge or rocks I need to get over when climbing, then I lean back lift the front over, then pop off the seat slightly and get the rear over.

I'm flat pedals for life btw...

OwenJakes wrote:
Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to...

Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to hop off fast. I think I just have dunning-kruger skill inflation cause im good on a moto bike. I probably suck but have inflated skills in the jumping, cardio, and bike control departments lol. Maybe when i go to a bike park ill pay for some training. I bet that would be a great investment.

Dude i absolutely ate it on one of the trails too. Took my first real OTB slam it was fantastic lol

cwtoyota wrote:
I've been into MTB two years and the skills eventually translate over.   Friends I've made mountain biking are always surprised by my speed, especially on...

I've been into MTB two years and the skills eventually translate over.   Friends I've made mountain biking are always surprised by my speed, especially on a 26" bike.   You get a sense of what you can and cannot get away with the more you ride and I'd bet your cardio does improve if you're consistent.

The remaining skills I want to learn are to be able to "manual" (long balance wheelies) and to hit the BMX style manmade jumps.  I think some direct coaching would be a huge benefit on the jumps...   Manualing just requires practice and there are plenty of Youtube videos showing how to learn to manual.

"clipless" (lock-in) pedals seem like a death-wish to me.    I go plenty fast on a set of quality flat pedals...     I lost my feet a bunch in my first six months of MTB, then figure some things out and re-tuned my suspension for gnarly / technical downhill and XC riding.   I'm worried about the extra torque on my reconstructed ACL to risk trying clipless pedals.   I'm also unwilling to try an open-face helmet.  🤣

I’ve got a sick base from moto and running. My vo2 is 70 according to my polar app.. lol. This bike smokes me sometimes though because I don’t know when to relax. I think I suck at pedaling too cause it’s always in one part of my quad. I don’t even know how it’s possible to suck at pedaling but I think I do😂😂

I really want to tinker with my suspension I feel like its not even close to optimal. Have you done any spring conversions on your bike? The idiot it me just wants to spring convert my bike for fun. 

OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/12/2024 8:00pm
There has been some really good advice on the last page or so. I was going to chime in with some great info from my 30...

There has been some really good advice on the last page or so. I was going to chime in with some great info from my 30 plus years of MTBing training for moto. But no need. Some really good input! 

I wish you would anyways!!

OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/12/2024 8:02pm

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

Stewyeww
Posts
345
Joined
2/6/2021
Location
AU
8/12/2024 8:19pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

Try some higher rise bars for the sore lower back. Not sure what suspension you have but upgrading the stock internals to a higher model is pretty easy, otherwise check out some companies like vorsprung or push for coil conversions for the fork. A coil shock and fork will give you better feel than air but will be heavier and some $$$, have a tinker with what you have first. You should be able to get a basic setup from the user manual for the fork and shock and go from there. If things feel a bit pogo'ey like you said, slow the rebound down a bit, if you bottoming out to often (more than one a run) add some air and maby some air tokens that will increase the air volume. 

1
cwtoyota
Posts
2416
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
8/12/2024 8:25pm
OwenJakes wrote:
Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to...

Not sure if i mentioned this but if I was on lock in's I would be actually dead or severely injured lmao. Sometimes, you NEED to hop off fast. I think I just have dunning-kruger skill inflation cause im good on a moto bike. I probably suck but have inflated skills in the jumping, cardio, and bike control departments lol. Maybe when i go to a bike park ill pay for some training. I bet that would be a great investment.

Dude i absolutely ate it on one of the trails too. Took my first real OTB slam it was fantastic lol

cwtoyota wrote:
I've been into MTB two years and the skills eventually translate over.   Friends I've made mountain biking are always surprised by my speed, especially on...

I've been into MTB two years and the skills eventually translate over.   Friends I've made mountain biking are always surprised by my speed, especially on a 26" bike.   You get a sense of what you can and cannot get away with the more you ride and I'd bet your cardio does improve if you're consistent.

The remaining skills I want to learn are to be able to "manual" (long balance wheelies) and to hit the BMX style manmade jumps.  I think some direct coaching would be a huge benefit on the jumps...   Manualing just requires practice and there are plenty of Youtube videos showing how to learn to manual.

"clipless" (lock-in) pedals seem like a death-wish to me.    I go plenty fast on a set of quality flat pedals...     I lost my feet a bunch in my first six months of MTB, then figure some things out and re-tuned my suspension for gnarly / technical downhill and XC riding.   I'm worried about the extra torque on my reconstructed ACL to risk trying clipless pedals.   I'm also unwilling to try an open-face helmet.  🤣

OwenJakes wrote:
I’ve got a sick base from moto and running. My vo2 is 70 according to my polar app.. lol. This bike smokes me sometimes though because...

I’ve got a sick base from moto and running. My vo2 is 70 according to my polar app.. lol. This bike smokes me sometimes though because I don’t know when to relax. I think I suck at pedaling too cause it’s always in one part of my quad. I don’t even know how it’s possible to suck at pedaling but I think I do😂😂

I really want to tinker with my suspension I feel like its not even close to optimal. Have you done any spring conversions on your bike? The idiot it me just wants to spring convert my bike for fun. 

You're in your 30s, right?  That VO2 max is really good.

I'm 44 in a couple days and I'm probably VO2 max in the mid 60s this time of year.  I should run to get an estimate.  
Garmin says my HRV average was 63 last night and my RHR seven day average is 43.

Your legs can get stronger for the task over time, but it could be ergonomics too...
I found a huge gain in efficiency going from 175mm cranks down to 165mm, but I'm just under 5'9".

My bike has a Fox coil shock.  I bought a spare shock and started making some trick internal parts and designed a new linkage, but haven't finished all that stuff.   I swapped my 400lbs/in spring for a 350lbs/in Titanium spring and went toward a little more low speed damping.  It helped the bike in the rough and rocky stuff, especially at speed.

I have a spring fork and an air fork.   It's older stuff made by Marzocchi and by RockShox...  I run the air-fork because I have revalved it and have it working consistently better than the stock Marzocchi coil setup.  I think I can make the bike work a lot better when I have some free time to tinker again. 

I'm actually working on a new mullet frame with new forks (Manitou Dorado) and my own geometry. 
I'll weld up a prototype as soon as I can get some free time.

cwtoyota
Posts
2416
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
8/12/2024 8:33pm
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

Can you ride a sand-track on the MX bike without any soreness?
If both make your back sore in the same way, I bet it's just some muscles that aren't in good shape.

If your back is only sore on the MTB, I'd consider experimenting with your bars like @steweww suggested and maybe look into seat position (front to rear) seat angle and stem length.

1
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA, USA
8/12/2024 8:58pm

Going uphill is b-tch. 

5
OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/17/2024 9:32am
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

cwtoyota wrote:
Can you ride a sand-track on the MX bike without any soreness?If both make your back sore in the same way, I bet it's just some...

Can you ride a sand-track on the MX bike without any soreness?
If both make your back sore in the same way, I bet it's just some muscles that aren't in good shape.

If your back is only sore on the MTB, I'd consider experimenting with your bars like @steweww suggested and maybe look into seat position (front to rear) seat angle and stem length.

Yeah I am solid on all things moto. It may not be ideal, but I run a powerlifting training program combined with my running/marathon training. I deadlift and squat a LOT alongside all the cycling so it does seem to be a bike only situation. Only time I'm sore.

So, bars. Maybe some more rise? I already want some with a touch more sweep anyways. What about seat position? Bring it forward some more? It may be form or anatomy but I also really feel everything in the vastus medialis which indicates maybe I am "behind" the pedals?? Dude I am so bad at mtb setup i feel like.. I am honestly afraid it is because I am on an XXL frame and "only" 6'3". (also 217 lb 9%bf)

I am 29 also. All my data is so wonky because of my size. As I've switched from polar to garmin it also is urging me to lower my bmi lmao.. Which I simply cant. So my VO2 in garmin and "health age" is whack still. Speaking of good VO2's, i say "weighted by age" you got me smoked too, awesome stuff.

 

Dude I wish we didnt live on opposite ends of America, we'd have a blast together lmao.

1
OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/17/2024 9:55am
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

Stewyeww wrote:
Try some higher rise bars for the sore lower back. Not sure what suspension you have but upgrading the stock internals to a higher model is...

Try some higher rise bars for the sore lower back. Not sure what suspension you have but upgrading the stock internals to a higher model is pretty easy, otherwise check out some companies like vorsprung or push for coil conversions for the fork. A coil shock and fork will give you better feel than air but will be heavier and some $$$, have a tinker with what you have first. You should be able to get a basic setup from the user manual for the fork and shock and go from there. If things feel a bit pogo'ey like you said, slow the rebound down a bit, if you bottoming out to often (more than one a run) add some air and maby some air tokens that will increase the air volume. 

Unfortunately, I do mostly xc stuff since it's a haul to the nearest bike park. I did not buy an XC bike because I do not mind riding an enduro everywhere, but I sure would mind riding an xc bike at a bike park hahaha!

I almost never bottom out. I may go in on some fork volume spacers and back the pressure off a little bit and experiment there. I have found a Bomber shock for $200 with a spring that I think I'm just going to buy and tinker with for fun. Worst case scenario I can re-sell it for close to that anyways. I have been eyeballing the Vorsprung Luftkappe upgrade for a while too. Any thoughts on this?

I am aware that probably this is 50/50 need based/desire to modify. At my skills, I probably "need" to pay for some lessons. Here in west Kentucky, it's just not on the table. I do intend on tying in with some people whenever i make it to a bike park though.

1
8/18/2024 5:05am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2024 5:06am

Make sure fork bushings arent too tight. Very common in fox/rockshox. People then try to tune it out with less spring and or compression. 
Steep, bermed  and jump tracks need comp. Good tires are important. Grip and protection are more important to me than rolling efficiency. 
Contintental are thebest tires atm.
Raw DH riding is the best! 

SteveUrchin
Posts
1166
Joined
7/6/2017
Location
Laguna Niguel, CA, USA
8/18/2024 7:25am
burn1986 wrote:

Going uphill is b-tch. 

Anyone ride Aliso/Laguna or San Clemente on acoustic bikes we should rip! 

Stewyeww
Posts
345
Joined
2/6/2021
Location
AU
8/18/2024 11:01am

Given your size you will probably find a coil shock will suite you better, might take a couple different weight springs to get it right, also look at a springdex to adjust spring rate as well. I have had vorsprung work on my shock and forks before and they do really good work, I haven't used the luftappe but I was considering it, it would be a good upgrade for a pretty reasonable price. Vorsprung are great to work with so if you have questions just ask and they will be happy to answer.

cwtoyota
Posts
2416
Joined
3/11/2013
Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
8/20/2024 12:27am
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

cwtoyota wrote:
Can you ride a sand-track on the MX bike without any soreness?If both make your back sore in the same way, I bet it's just some...

Can you ride a sand-track on the MX bike without any soreness?
If both make your back sore in the same way, I bet it's just some muscles that aren't in good shape.

If your back is only sore on the MTB, I'd consider experimenting with your bars like @steweww suggested and maybe look into seat position (front to rear) seat angle and stem length.

OwenJakes wrote:
Yeah I am solid on all things moto. It may not be ideal, but I run a powerlifting training program combined with my running/marathon training. I...

Yeah I am solid on all things moto. It may not be ideal, but I run a powerlifting training program combined with my running/marathon training. I deadlift and squat a LOT alongside all the cycling so it does seem to be a bike only situation. Only time I'm sore.

So, bars. Maybe some more rise? I already want some with a touch more sweep anyways. What about seat position? Bring it forward some more? It may be form or anatomy but I also really feel everything in the vastus medialis which indicates maybe I am "behind" the pedals?? Dude I am so bad at mtb setup i feel like.. I am honestly afraid it is because I am on an XXL frame and "only" 6'3". (also 217 lb 9%bf)

I am 29 also. All my data is so wonky because of my size. As I've switched from polar to garmin it also is urging me to lower my bmi lmao.. Which I simply cant. So my VO2 in garmin and "health age" is whack still. Speaking of good VO2's, i say "weighted by age" you got me smoked too, awesome stuff.

 

Dude I wish we didnt live on opposite ends of America, we'd have a blast together lmao.

I would bet more rise in the bars or a stem or stem-spacer if your steerer tube isn't cut off flush with the stem.
If you feel like the bike has too much reach, you could try a shorter stem and set it up a bit higher on the steerer tube.

Since most bikes are about 60+ degrees rake angle, your reach shortens by 50% of the amount you raise the stem on the steerer tube.
That's just simple trig...  cos(60°) = 0.50
Raising your stem 10mm reduces the reach by 5mm.

The seat position stuff would be a guess for me since I never sit down, even on the long climbs.   I think you should pack a set of hex keys or whatever you need to adjust it and a sharpie marker.   Just experiment and find a position that doesn't put your back in a bind, then run that for a long ride to see if you get sore.

I've met some really good people in moto, in mountain biking and from forums over the years.   I think you're right!

2
TyRod
Posts
116
Joined
4/9/2020
Location
USA
8/20/2024 6:05am
OwenJakes wrote:
hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a...

hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a blast. Couple questions:

1. I run my fork at 105 PSI and the shock is at 225 for me at 215 pounds. The bike is awesome but when I get into rocky sections where the tires can "fit" the bike really gets pogo-y. For example, if I am climbing and find some rocks or roots, the bike almost comes to a stop. Can I get away from this by setup or do I just need to address it with skill/approach? I had to do so much walking lol. I hope this makes sense. It's like the bike falls into a wheel chock and just stops me. If I were going faster it would be fine but you can only climb so fast after 15 miles.

2. Does everyone else have insane amounts of pedal strikes? Am I too heavy? I have a bout 2" of clearance when I am one pedal down one pedal up. If I have to do any of the climbing mentioned in #1 above, I just pedal strike and destroy my feet. These issues are pretty related obviously. I cannot climb faster because I cant pedal! ahaha.

 

Anyways, I love the bike. Still, it's not a dirtbike, but man is it fun. I am in louisville for a conference and I could come to the area a day early with the bike no problem. This would have been impossible with a dirtbike.

If you ever decide to come back up to Brown County State Park and want to put in some long miles on the XC trails for your marathon training , hit me up on here and I'll get ya my number. I only live 35 minutes away from the park and have been riding there since they started letting MB'ers build trails.

1
8/20/2024 7:10am
Spooner wrote:
Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at...

Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at one of many trail systems in my area in less than 30 min, and very little maintenance in between. Not to mention it's an absolute blast to ride haha!  Went to a newer place today for the first time and had a total blast.

 

IMG 5985

River Bluffs are sick. It's e-bike territory unless you wanna climb all darn day.

 

1
OwenJakes
Posts
1799
Joined
6/30/2023
Location
sebree, KY, USA
8/20/2024 12:35pm
OwenJakes wrote:
hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a...

hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a blast. Couple questions:

1. I run my fork at 105 PSI and the shock is at 225 for me at 215 pounds. The bike is awesome but when I get into rocky sections where the tires can "fit" the bike really gets pogo-y. For example, if I am climbing and find some rocks or roots, the bike almost comes to a stop. Can I get away from this by setup or do I just need to address it with skill/approach? I had to do so much walking lol. I hope this makes sense. It's like the bike falls into a wheel chock and just stops me. If I were going faster it would be fine but you can only climb so fast after 15 miles.

2. Does everyone else have insane amounts of pedal strikes? Am I too heavy? I have a bout 2" of clearance when I am one pedal down one pedal up. If I have to do any of the climbing mentioned in #1 above, I just pedal strike and destroy my feet. These issues are pretty related obviously. I cannot climb faster because I cant pedal! ahaha.

 

Anyways, I love the bike. Still, it's not a dirtbike, but man is it fun. I am in louisville for a conference and I could come to the area a day early with the bike no problem. This would have been impossible with a dirtbike.

TyRod wrote:
If you ever decide to come back up to Brown County State Park and want to put in some long miles on the XC trails for...

If you ever decide to come back up to Brown County State Park and want to put in some long miles on the XC trails for your marathon training , hit me up on here and I'll get ya my number. I only live 35 minutes away from the park and have been riding there since they started letting MB'ers build trails.

Dude I need the inside scoop on who the heck can actually complete the double black out there. Some of those sections clearly haven’t had tires on them in years it’s crazy!!

Next trip out we’ll pack out and ride for sure that sounds so fun. 

TyRod
Posts
116
Joined
4/9/2020
Location
USA
8/21/2024 7:28am
OwenJakes wrote:
hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a...

hey guys. I took a trip up to brown county state park in indiana and rode a double black diamond trail and had (kind of) a blast. Couple questions:

1. I run my fork at 105 PSI and the shock is at 225 for me at 215 pounds. The bike is awesome but when I get into rocky sections where the tires can "fit" the bike really gets pogo-y. For example, if I am climbing and find some rocks or roots, the bike almost comes to a stop. Can I get away from this by setup or do I just need to address it with skill/approach? I had to do so much walking lol. I hope this makes sense. It's like the bike falls into a wheel chock and just stops me. If I were going faster it would be fine but you can only climb so fast after 15 miles.

2. Does everyone else have insane amounts of pedal strikes? Am I too heavy? I have a bout 2" of clearance when I am one pedal down one pedal up. If I have to do any of the climbing mentioned in #1 above, I just pedal strike and destroy my feet. These issues are pretty related obviously. I cannot climb faster because I cant pedal! ahaha.

 

Anyways, I love the bike. Still, it's not a dirtbike, but man is it fun. I am in louisville for a conference and I could come to the area a day early with the bike no problem. This would have been impossible with a dirtbike.

TyRod wrote:
If you ever decide to come back up to Brown County State Park and want to put in some long miles on the XC trails for...

If you ever decide to come back up to Brown County State Park and want to put in some long miles on the XC trails for your marathon training , hit me up on here and I'll get ya my number. I only live 35 minutes away from the park and have been riding there since they started letting MB'ers build trails.

OwenJakes wrote:
Dude I need the inside scoop on who the heck can actually complete the double black out there. Some of those sections clearly haven’t had tires...

Dude I need the inside scoop on who the heck can actually complete the double black out there. Some of those sections clearly haven’t had tires on them in years it’s crazy!!

Next trip out we’ll pack out and ride for sure that sounds so fun. 

99% sure your talking about the Schooner Trace trail. The beginning and end of the trail is super technical to keep people out of there that shouldn't be on it to begin with, but the majority of the trail after that isn't bad. It however doesn't get ridden much anymore as mentioned since there are so many miles of other awesome trails throughout the park that are better suited for most. Assuming you parked at the Fire Tower and accessed the trail near there?

Professional trials rider, Jeff Lenosky, has been to the park and ridden that trail, and has numerous videos on YouTube showing it that you should check out. Would definitely be glad to show you around if ya make it back up here again. However, near Louisville, you should check out the trails at Ft Duffield MB Park which has some big downhill jump trails that would be suited for your bike.

1
robtyl60
Posts
38
Joined
12/31/2011
Location
Owensboro, KY, USA
8/21/2024 8:45am
OwenJakes wrote:

Also my lower back gets really fatigued when riding. What does this mean? Setup? What could cause this?

Its your bike fit creating the problems. Bike may be too big or too small, saddle may be too high or low, stem may be too long or short. 

1
Spooner
Posts
2483
Joined
1/8/2011
Location
Kansas City, MO, USA
8/21/2024 5:52pm
Spooner wrote:
Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at...

Lots of good advice in here.  Man I can't get enough riding my mountain bike these days.  The ability to load up in minutes, be at one of many trail systems in my area in less than 30 min, and very little maintenance in between. Not to mention it's an absolute blast to ride haha!  Went to a newer place today for the first time and had a total blast.

 

IMG 5985

River Bluffs are sick. It's e-bike territory unless you wanna climb all darn day.

 

There's other types of bikes? 😆

 

Yeah when I was climbing up the return road and saw it basically went straight up I definitely felt bad for anyone not on the juice. 

Post a reply to: Mountain Biking Cross-Satisfaction?

The Latest