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Location
Avondale, PA
US
Dude 400 for a remap! Holy crap!
vortex having space for 10 maps sure would be nice if you could tell them I want 1 smooth and 1 fast map for bike a; same for bike b same for c, same for d
But no get 10 maps and you’re gonna use 1 maybe 2, crazy the prices now. 400 lol. It was just 2-250!!
It's the moto way - just keep jacking up the prices until business slows down.
I remember when you could get a pipe, silencer and porting done for less than that.
It has gotten way out of hand. All in a full FMF Ti system is just shy of $1600. I can afford it, but fuck that noise. Stock is good enough to haul my old ass around for that kind of money.
If it was a grand all in I'd have one ordered today.
What the heck. Wasn’t it $300ish last year?
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Free shipping: VITALMX
When Twisted did that podcast with Pingree a while back, Jamie mentioned that he wanted to buy more houses and shops so he could expand from Socal to back east. I no longer use his products, the prices are ridiculous, not to mention his mapping isn't customized for individuals.
Someday people are going to learn that a 'Re-Map' is literally nothing more than an excel table that matches O2 to Fuel in a table throughout a throttle curve lol
I already know, but they have the settings, and the software, and I don’t, soooo.
It's more me agreeing with you that this is absurd and there are really only 2 shops that do it now. Any fucker in a garage could tune a carb with time but the ECU tuning sucks when nobody can do it.
Almost anyone could tune a single cylinder naturally aspirated four stroke with so few parameters too... If they'd let you tune the ECU you just gave them a bunch of money for 😂
Yamaha even let you tune the stock ECU, what's these guys deal?
So I just looked, I ended up on an Aus site somehow... £1400 upside down dollars for a fucking cable and the most basic looking mapping software, for the most basic ECU, I've seen in a decade???
These people are insane...
Almost every motorsport ECU for racecars, trucks, multi cylinder bikes, come with FREE open source and a FREE comms lead so you can communicate with the ECU you just paid for... This is mind blowing 😂
I will say this... Mapping a single cylinder, naturally aspirated motocross bike with super basic temperature and elevation enrichment is incredibly simple for the most part.
Getting a race bike perfect can be time consuming and Twisted or similar being paid for their expertise and service is fair enough.
But the Vortex are laughing all the way to the bank and frankly it's out of order.
It's honestly a "want" and not a "need" (and so are dirt bikes, if we're being completely honest), but accepting that, who would put up with having to pay large sums to set their shock preload or adjust their levers?
Wait until the KTM way becomes the norm - make the electronics accessible only via a monthly subscription and then, just like all other software, they have a sunset date, after which they no longer support it.
Planned obsolescence.
It's becoming the strategy of most anything made today - force the consumer to keep buying it.
Screw the Maytag model of quality and longevity - disposable is how you bleed people.
Simple solution - quit buying them.
Supply and demand is a law that's almost as reliable as gravity.
Funny you say that, MoTec who are obviously an electronics company used by a LOT of factory level racecars and a lot of fast bikes, from world superbike to homegrown turbo 'busas and stuff, have made their software subscription based, very very disappointing but like you say it's the way it's all going.
90% of proper motorsport electronics still have free software and very cheap, or included for free, cables to communicate with the device you just paid good money for.
Tokyo Mods $200 to remap your ecu to your individual needs!
do you also know how time and inflation works.. these are the dumbest comments, always.
neither are most suspension shops settings.
The 4T exhausts have always been ridiculously overpriced since they took over the offroad market.
Remember when Yamaha introduced the current F1 4T design to the offroad market and everyone wanted a pipe? The major/usual players brought out their pipes and they were waaaay more expensive than 2T pipes. People were like, "why? It's just some bent tube and a can?". I never saw this kind of pricing with Powroll, Bassani, etc., back when a 4T pipe was for an XR.
But the fact that people were willing to line up and hand over large sums of cash caught the eyes of street pipe manufacturers and then new players decided to jump into the market. Why? They saw the insane profit margins and huge demand. The demand cooled but the price level has never adjusted. I know this much - I've never bought a new pipe or can for one of my thumpers and never will - they just aren't worth the money to me. I've bought some used ones for pennies on the dollar, but only because they were something needed to ride (i.e., spark arrestor).
No, please enlighten me. I'm still trying to pay for $5/dozen eggs while making $3.35/hr.
That's kind of the point - inflation has pushed prices to ridiculous levels, even taking current wages into account, when you realize that for less than that amount you got hard parts (with some resale value) and significant labor to modify your part... and now all you get is someone plugging in a component, changing a few values in a table and emptying your wallet in a matter of minutes.
That's not inflation, that's stupidity... for those who want to participate.
Pit Row
If your good at something never do it for free. your paying for there knowledge and the software they are using.
the amount of capitalists on this board that also hate when people make a living is hilarious.
And you were paying for the same with the hard parts and porting, so that's a wash.
And to be clear, I don't hate it when someone makes a living, just voicing my opinion on the price (and perceived value) of a service; it's part of the supply and demand equation. Except for govt coercion, I don't see where I'm required to pay whatever someone asks for a product or service but others can do what they feel is best for them.
This thread is the best answer to why I like carburetors on old two strokes. I have a litfetime's worth of jets and needles and learned how to do a basic tune from some savvy old-timers when I was young.
My four stroke has a Vortex with XPR maps on it, so I'm a participant in the "vet class arms race" too.
I'm fairly savvy with electronics and software... I don't have enough time to do all the projects I want to do, but there are guys out there who have the skillset, desire and time. Purchasing a tuned ECU or paying for a re-map is the shortcut to rolling your own. These tuners had to put a lot of time into R&D to come up with their settings. They've spent money on dynos and probably blown up a few engines along the way...
Get a few guys together with the savvy to reverse engineer some stuff or design an open-source platform... It is being done in every industry from coffee makers to EVs. It's a high-effort road to travel, but many hands make light work. Some guys have already started projects like this. The link below is one example. Scroll down to see his list of applications and schematic for comms to some Keihin ECUs.
https://github.com/aeaphichart/HondaECU-1/blob/master/README.md
GIThub is a tool for software (and some hardware) projects to share and manage source code. Lots of open-source (free to use and modify) projects are developed there.
https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/dst/m16c65c-group-datasheet
Wow. So, here’s the implication, right?
Jamie Ellis is “A Bad Guy”…? 🤔
Hmmmmm. Just another Friday on the internet.
I have not seen a single person in here do as much for privateers or local riders you’ve never heard of…at local and national races…alike…for NOTHING…not a fucking dime…seen him rebuild motors for people that don’t have much…and he did it for NOTHING…
Yet, I get to come in here and see you fucking whiners talk shit?
In an attempt to be a “lesser A-hole” and on the advice of editorial counsel…I’ll rephrase.
“You’re wrong”.
Sincerely,
Manny
I didn’t say he’s a bad guy, or anything near that, just that $400 for a remap, seems a bit steep.
I long for the days where the hottest four stroke pipe on the market was the Supertrapp!
Your spunk is immeasurable and fun to view 😉
Wow. So, here's the implication, right?
Manny will defend anyone in the industry when valid points are being brought up, unless he has personal bad experiences.
Nobody said Ellis is a bad guy. One person brought up comments he made on a podcasts about expanding, and wanting more houses.
Capitalism is fine, and encouraged, price increases may give you more bottom line for a season, but it's a slippery slope pricing yourself out eventually.
I get your impulse to always defend your friends, but his actual consumer base are the ones complaining. They have just as much of a voice as you do, because at the end of the day THEY are the ones paying for those houses and expansion.
🍻🍻
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8fOrFeP_Oa/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Speaking of mapping...
Hey Manny, hope you're well.
That's an interesting take on the conversation, but for what it's worth, I didn't read it as a personal attack on JE.
I saw someone mention that he was surprised/shocked by how much a service recently increased in price (yes, this particular one is offered by JE) and one other poster remark how he wouldn't do business with JE specifically, but other than that it was a pretty general discussion about the price of different products/services and the perceived value of them in light of the asking prices. My comments were general value vs. pricing ones, Chimp mentioned exhausts, Richy educated us on Vortex and how they compare to similar products in other motorsports, CW made a public profession of his affection for carbs and then confessed he's been afflicted with a Vet Racer form of consumerism... but then made amends by sharing his knowledge of modifying ECUs and open-source platforms, so he's been absolved now.
I can see how, since the original post concerned a JE service, someone who knows him personally can take the thread in its entirety as being directed toward him, but I didn't read it as that - just varied comments on the perceived overpricing/value of different items in the moto world. I didn't see any personal attacks (unlike ones being made about specific promoters and track owners on another currently active thread or a certain infamous engine tuner/builder) or disparaging remarks as a theme here, just the general JE related ones I already mentioned. No one questioned his character, insulted him or alleged anything improper.
So, as a potential consumer who is reading this thread with no personal attachment to JE, I wouldn't take it as reflecting negatively on him or his business nor intended to damage either of them.
Hope my worthless two cents helps ease your concerns regarding your friend and his reputation and maybe others can chime in and tell you if they feel the same as me... or if I'm the only one seeing it that way.
Take care and thanks for being a good friend - everyone needs one. I'm sure he's glad he can count you among his. 👍
Brother, I had a White Brothers aluminum ST (Megalloy?) on an XR600 that was pure music. It came with like 200 discs (okay, maybe not quite that many, but it looked like it) and was sooooo tunable. If you dared run the open megaphone it would make your ears bleed!
Had a buddy that had the original XR185 and put the Powroll 200 kit in it with the original round steel ST and I loved the way it sounded... and that was when I had my Hannah Replica '79 YZ250, so it wasn't like I was partial to thumpers. Didn't matter though, that was still a sweet sounding exhaust!
In all honesty…
You've nailed it.
Mea culpa.
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