Question for the political crowd

borg
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Edited Date/Time 5/31/2024 6:04am

Why do Libertarians dislike Trump? The quick answer seems to be (the virus of which we will not speak)  but that was a pretty confusing time and had a lot of people freaked out.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-booed-heckled-raucous-crowd-020356627.html

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5/26/2024 12:30pm

Borg starting a political thread? I sense a distortion in the time space continuum.

TM

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eddie
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5/26/2024 2:51pm

because he wants more power and authority for the executive branch.

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borg
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5/26/2024 4:17pm
ToolMaker wrote:

Borg starting a political thread? I sense a distortion in the time space continuum.

TM

It's actually a genuine question. Certain people from all over the political spectrum (except Marxists) have gravitated towards Trump and I figured that he had at least some fans form the Libertarian ranks. Not really sure why Trump set himself up for that except he obviously thought he had some support there too. Nobody gives a shit who they actually nominate. I'm not even sure why they bother.  The true party Libertarians are whack jobs.

This could be a big year for a 3rd party just not them.

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JM485
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5/26/2024 9:12pm

I'd say I align closest to a libertarian, and for me at least I've seen a huge change in the Trump that ran in 2016 and the Trump that is running today.  The Trump I see today wants more centralized authority and, quite honestly, just doesn't make nearly as much sense when he talks now which makes his age really come into question for me.  I look at both candidates and I see two completely ineffective leaders who show the maturity of middle schoolers when you get them together at the same time, and if neither of them can handle having a reasonable debate (look at the shit show that was 2020) or put together a single concise and nuanced explanation for their policies it really tells me all I need to know.  Both of them are masters of saying a lot while saying nothing at the same time.  

 

For that reason I'm probably going to be a Kennedy voter in 2024.  I don't agree with probably half of his positions, but I'd rather have someone I disagree with on certain issues but can exercise at least a little bit of humility and nuance than have to say I voted for either of the other two idiots.  Listening to a few interviews with Annie Jacobsen about her book "Nuclear War" and how much power is concentrated in the executive during such a scenario really made me stop and think about who I would want in charge, and of the three choices Kennedy fits that bill the best since he's quite knowledgeable when it comes to geopolitics.  It's absolutely mind blowing to me how large of a vacuum of leadership we really have right now when this is potentially our best option, I'd love to see a 3 way debate because I think it would be very eye opening to see how far the other two have really fallen.

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The Shop

Gworm
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5/27/2024 8:33am

I personally think many (not all, by any means) of the libertarians just want to be against everyone. They can sit back with their 3% and take no blame, because whoever wins, “ I didn’t vote for him”. 

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borg
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5/27/2024 8:56am
Gworm wrote:
I personally think many (not all, by any means) of the libertarians just want to be against everyone. They can sit back with their 3% and...

I personally think many (not all, by any means) of the libertarians just want to be against everyone. They can sit back with their 3% and take no blame, because whoever wins, “ I didn’t vote for him”. 

Some truth to that. Mostly it's the inner party members who seem to be content in obscurity. I have a fairly wide libertarian (small "l") streak myself but would never consider being a member of the big "L".

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Zycki11
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5/27/2024 9:30am Edited Date/Time 5/27/2024 9:33am
eddie wrote:

because he wants more power and authority for the executive branch.

I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It is obvious at this point that our own government spied on Trumps campaign and took every measure possible to rid him of the special game they play(I am not a large Trump fan either). 
 

If we look at what has actually happened and what is coming to light examples

-targeting free speech(banning platforms) 

-dictating speech(twitter, facebook)

These are huge implications down the line. If they start paper cutting your first amendment right by targeting “hate speech” or not allowing speech about Palestine in relation to the holocaust. It is dictation of history in front of our eyes
 

So my original question will stand. Why are people concerned with Trump, when those in power are the ones doing the very thing you mention? The executive branch is being used for political purposes and not for the right reasons currently. Why is this not a problem now?

 

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OW38B
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5/27/2024 11:46am

Libertarians have a big "wacko" side, he is reaching out to show them by definition are "drain the swamp" peeps, they forget sometimes. Wink

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eddie
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5/27/2024 7:24pm
eddie wrote:

because he wants more power and authority for the executive branch.

Zycki11 wrote:
I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It...

I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It is obvious at this point that our own government spied on Trumps campaign and took every measure possible to rid him of the special game they play(I am not a large Trump fan either). 
 

If we look at what has actually happened and what is coming to light examples

-targeting free speech(banning platforms) 

-dictating speech(twitter, facebook)

These are huge implications down the line. If they start paper cutting your first amendment right by targeting “hate speech” or not allowing speech about Palestine in relation to the holocaust. It is dictation of history in front of our eyes
 

So my original question will stand. Why are people concerned with Trump, when those in power are the ones doing the very thing you mention? The executive branch is being used for political purposes and not for the right reasons currently. Why is this not a problem now?

 

Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking both Trump and Biden for the same, over reach of the executive branch, reason. Boos for Trump doesn’t equate to support of Biden … a rare breed in American politics are the libertarians . Holding a position on principles … crazy bastards they are .

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Joey Bridges
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5/28/2024 2:41am

And yet this is who they prop up...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/05/libertarian-party-nominee-oliv…

 

Like the other two political parties, most operate in a sensible ideological middle ground.

It's the one's who set themselves up as representatives that are the lunatic fringe.

 

biden, Trump, and now this clown, whoever the hell he is.

 

We want something else. 

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Zycki11
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5/28/2024 5:28am Edited Date/Time 5/28/2024 6:25am
eddie wrote:

because he wants more power and authority for the executive branch.

Zycki11 wrote:
I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It...

I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It is obvious at this point that our own government spied on Trumps campaign and took every measure possible to rid him of the special game they play(I am not a large Trump fan either). 
 

If we look at what has actually happened and what is coming to light examples

-targeting free speech(banning platforms) 

-dictating speech(twitter, facebook)

These are huge implications down the line. If they start paper cutting your first amendment right by targeting “hate speech” or not allowing speech about Palestine in relation to the holocaust. It is dictation of history in front of our eyes
 

So my original question will stand. Why are people concerned with Trump, when those in power are the ones doing the very thing you mention? The executive branch is being used for political purposes and not for the right reasons currently. Why is this not a problem now?

 

eddie wrote:
Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking...

Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking both Trump and Biden for the same, over reach of the executive branch, reason. Boos for Trump doesn’t equate to support of Biden … a rare breed in American politics are the libertarians . Holding a position on principles … crazy bastards they are .

You didn't answer the question. I know what a libertarian "is"  

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borg
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5/28/2024 6:56am
Zycki11 wrote:
I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It...

I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It is obvious at this point that our own government spied on Trumps campaign and took every measure possible to rid him of the special game they play(I am not a large Trump fan either). 
 

If we look at what has actually happened and what is coming to light examples

-targeting free speech(banning platforms) 

-dictating speech(twitter, facebook)

These are huge implications down the line. If they start paper cutting your first amendment right by targeting “hate speech” or not allowing speech about Palestine in relation to the holocaust. It is dictation of history in front of our eyes
 

So my original question will stand. Why are people concerned with Trump, when those in power are the ones doing the very thing you mention? The executive branch is being used for political purposes and not for the right reasons currently. Why is this not a problem now?

 

eddie wrote:
Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking...

Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking both Trump and Biden for the same, over reach of the executive branch, reason. Boos for Trump doesn’t equate to support of Biden … a rare breed in American politics are the libertarians . Holding a position on principles … crazy bastards they are .

Zycki11 wrote:

You didn't answer the question. I know what a libertarian "is"  

Not speaking for eddie but answering your question.

"Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done?"

It is the fundamental reason why a person will choose for or against any candidate. It's because you think he will do shit you like or shit you don't like. You can disagree with their conclusions but it's non the less their own criteria.

eddie
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5/28/2024 8:59am
Zycki11 wrote:
I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It...

I have a question here. Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done? It is obvious at this point that our own government spied on Trumps campaign and took every measure possible to rid him of the special game they play(I am not a large Trump fan either). 
 

If we look at what has actually happened and what is coming to light examples

-targeting free speech(banning platforms) 

-dictating speech(twitter, facebook)

These are huge implications down the line. If they start paper cutting your first amendment right by targeting “hate speech” or not allowing speech about Palestine in relation to the holocaust. It is dictation of history in front of our eyes
 

So my original question will stand. Why are people concerned with Trump, when those in power are the ones doing the very thing you mention? The executive branch is being used for political purposes and not for the right reasons currently. Why is this not a problem now?

 

eddie wrote:
Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking...

Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking both Trump and Biden for the same, over reach of the executive branch, reason. Boos for Trump doesn’t equate to support of Biden … a rare breed in American politics are the libertarians . Holding a position on principles … crazy bastards they are .

Zycki11 wrote:

You didn't answer the question. I know what a libertarian "is"  

I did answer the question in the context of the thread, which is libertarian’s dislike of Trump. 
 

Are you now asking about the entire population ? 

Zycki11
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5/28/2024 9:00am
eddie wrote:
Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking...

Libertarians tend to be very idealistic , and they are not bound by the binary mindset that rep/dem voters are . They are capable of disliking both Trump and Biden for the same, over reach of the executive branch, reason. Boos for Trump doesn’t equate to support of Biden … a rare breed in American politics are the libertarians . Holding a position on principles … crazy bastards they are .

Zycki11 wrote:

You didn't answer the question. I know what a libertarian "is"  

borg wrote:
Not speaking for eddie but answering your question. "Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is...

Not speaking for eddie but answering your question.

"Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done?"

It is the fundamental reason why a person will choose for or against any candidate. It's because you think he will do shit you like or shit you don't like. You can disagree with their conclusions but it's non the less their own criteria.

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

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avidchimp
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5/28/2024 9:02am
Zycki11 wrote:

You didn't answer the question. I know what a libertarian "is"  

borg wrote:
Not speaking for eddie but answering your question. "Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is...

Not speaking for eddie but answering your question.

"Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done?"

It is the fundamental reason why a person will choose for or against any candidate. It's because you think he will do shit you like or shit you don't like. You can disagree with their conclusions but it's non the less their own criteria.

Zycki11 wrote:
Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes...

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

It's one big club and we ain't in it no matter who we "like".

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eddie
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5/28/2024 9:15am
Zycki11 wrote:
Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes...

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

You still think the libertarians are trying to defend Biden policies ? That’s what’s worth a chuckle . Your problem is that libertarians don’t fit into your black and white political view that the two major parties perpetuate . 
 

 

LoudLove
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5/28/2024 9:32am

Unlike 2016, Trump would inherit a more challenging economic & political landscape should he win this November. Most voters have seen enough of Biden to opt for a different course but many fear that Trump may not have the chops for the current environment. From January 2017 until March 2020 Trump could make tactical decisions w/o fear of disrupting the economy.  Now he must manage rapid inflation and global instabilty, so perhaps a close loss would be preferred over actually taking on the 4 year headache as POTUS. 

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Spurdo
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5/28/2024 9:53am

The hero we deserve. 

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OW38B
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5/28/2024 10:06am
Zycki11 wrote:
Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes...

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

eddie wrote:
You still think the libertarians are trying to defend Biden policies ? That’s what’s worth a chuckle . Your problem is that libertarians don’t fit into...

You still think the libertarians are trying to defend Biden policies ? That’s what’s worth a chuckle . Your problem is that libertarians don’t fit into your black and white political view that the two major parties perpetuate . 
 

 

Bro, trying to defend the "Libby" wacko crowd.......good luck with that. Laughing

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LoudLove
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Spurdo wrote:
The hero we deserve. 

The hero we deserve. 

Does that pic count towards his military service?

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whyZ
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5/28/2024 11:05am

This country has suffered enough over the past four years and is hardly in the economic or quizzical mood to have the time, patience, or care to question the political leanings of a small voting bloc of the American public.  This country has been able to experience in "real world", "real time" the outcomes of what two ideologically different administrations have accomplished, or not.            

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5/28/2024 2:36pm
borg wrote:
Not speaking for eddie but answering your question. "Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is...

Not speaking for eddie but answering your question.

"Why is it that everyone is afraid of “what Trump will do” and not afraid of what has/is being done?"

It is the fundamental reason why a person will choose for or against any candidate. It's because you think he will do shit you like or shit you don't like. You can disagree with their conclusions but it's non the less their own criteria.

Zycki11 wrote:
Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes...

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

avidchimp wrote:

It's one big club and we ain't in it no matter who we "like".

But we have our own club, beating each other over the head while they rob us blind. What more can you ask for?

And if we complain, they disappear us and pretend it never happened.

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avidchimp
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5/28/2024 2:46pm
LoudLove wrote:
Unlike 2016, Trump would inherit a more challenging economic & political landscape should he win this November. Most voters have seen enough of Biden to opt...

Unlike 2016, Trump would inherit a more challenging economic & political landscape should he win this November. Most voters have seen enough of Biden to opt for a different course but many fear that Trump may not have the chops for the current environment. From January 2017 until March 2020 Trump could make tactical decisions w/o fear of disrupting the economy.  Now he must manage rapid inflation and global instabilty, so perhaps a close loss would be preferred over actually taking on the 4 year headache as POTUS. 

Look, at this point I want Trump to win, I really do, just so we can put all of this one side or the other shit to bed and wake up to the fact we are all being fucked with no lube.

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avidchimp
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5/28/2024 2:47pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes...

Again, choosing a candidate is everyones right. But when someone comes in saying fear of Trump doing "X" while that very thing is going on makes me chuckle while defending it under the 3rd party guise 

avidchimp wrote:

It's one big club and we ain't in it no matter who we "like".

ToolMaker wrote:
But we have our own club, beating each other over the head while they rob us blind. What more can you ask for? And if we...

But we have our own club, beating each other over the head while they rob us blind. What more can you ask for?

And if we complain, they disappear us and pretend it never happened.

Meetings are Saturday mornings, 8am.

VL13
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5/28/2024 3:47pm
avidchimp wrote:

Meetings are Saturday mornings, 8am.

First rule of Fight Club…… 

avidchimp
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5/28/2024 3:51pm
avidchimp wrote:

Meetings are Saturday mornings, 8am.

VL13 wrote:

First rule of Fight Club…… 

I didn't say WHERE the meetings were, cut me some slack. Laughing

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