Engine Mounts incredible difference!

Luxon MX
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San Diego, CA, USA
Fantasy
5/20/2024 8:26am
mx_563 wrote:
I think it's cool that you did this and I'm not trying to poke holes in your simulation but I think the load case is pretty...

I think it's cool that you did this and I'm not trying to poke holes in your simulation but I think the load case is pretty complex. Is static loading the appropriate modelling technique (implicit vs. explicit) for impact loads? Is 250lb the right load value? Other DOF's (torsional deflection, etc).

Again, I'm not trying to bust your chops. I thinks it's awesome that you ran the simulation and I think it's a legit starting point. Somebody needs to throw some strain gages on a dirt bike so we can start getting to the bottom of this. LOL!!!

 

Implicit analysis is certainly the way to go here; explicit is only necessary for systems with nasty non-linearities (crash simulations, hyperelastic materials, etc.). Implicit dynamic would be a bit of an overkill and you'd need a much more complex model for it to be of any more use. It would really only be necessary if the natural frequency of the chassis is within the operating range of frequencies (I hope not!).

More complex loadcases would be good, but the right way to do this is to use simple loadcases on a more complex model. You really want to model more of the chassis (all engine mounts, engine, chassis, etc.; constrain at the wheels with loading applied at the rider contact points (foot pegs, bars) and body loading, to get an idea of overall stiffness change and feel to the rider. It would be somewhat complex and take a week or two to get up and running (assuming you don't have a CAD model of the bike already).

The above is what I'd do if we were to engineer some proper engine mounts. It would be an interesting project and would probably make some reasonable money given what people are paying for these things, but we're pretty busy as-is with our core products now. Regardless, a static analysis of a single mount is plenty good for a quick and dirty idea of what's going on when adding a big hole in the mount. I doubt most of the companies offering mounts are even analyzing at that level anyways!

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Luxon MX
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5/20/2024 8:34am
Hasletjoe wrote:

Okay, this definitely shows my old age, but trying to figure out why you want flex in the motorcycle...Is there a simple explanation?

Your suspension really only works in one direction. Flex occurs in all directions, so you want flex in some directions for comfort, particularly the directions that are commonly loaded without a way for suspension to give you that comfort.

For example, you want the triple clamps (and chassis, etc.) to flex front to back to take up some of the chop or the hit of slap down landings that don't put the force directly in-line with the fork compression (most all bumps are off-axis to the fork to some extent).  

But it gets tricky as too much flex impacts the handling of the bike. Too much flex actually changes the geometry of the bike enough to be noticeable. You need to balance more flex for comfort (which can also increase traction) with more rigidity for better handling. All of this can be a tricky trade-off to get right.

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KHNC
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East Flat Rock, NC, USA
5/20/2024 11:31am
El Capitan wrote:

Has anyone spoken with you about the benefits of running Rotella? 

Has anyone spoken with you about our Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ? 

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bvm111
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Las Vegas, NV, USA
5/20/2024 2:33pm

I love these threads … buy what you want to buy, test test test, yes bring a torque wrench to the track and experiment. If you can’t notice a difference then problem solved, if you can well then cool! By most everyone’s opinion on here the factory teams and riders shouldn’t test and shouldn’t make changes to any parts or torque specs. Watch the keefer videos when he goes to the SX races and asks each mechanic he interviews if there is a known best axel to axel number and what those numbers are and none will say anything … but i guess something as small as wheel base won’t change anything and is snake oil just like triple clamp material, design, split clamp or solid, clamp bolt torques specs or material, greased or not greased, thread lock or no thread lock. If none of that mattered just grab a wrench and throw your bike back together with the ole it’s good an tight method… i’ll stick with my torque wrench and make sure its put together properly and yes you can feel the difference in mount design, torque specs, both stiffer and softer. 

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The Shop

3strokemx
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2669
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USA
5/20/2024 6:53pm
bvm111 wrote:
I love these threads … buy what you want to buy, test test test, yes bring a torque wrench to the track and experiment. If you...

I love these threads … buy what you want to buy, test test test, yes bring a torque wrench to the track and experiment. If you can’t notice a difference then problem solved, if you can well then cool! By most everyone’s opinion on here the factory teams and riders shouldn’t test and shouldn’t make changes to any parts or torque specs. Watch the keefer videos when he goes to the SX races and asks each mechanic he interviews if there is a known best axel to axel number and what those numbers are and none will say anything … but i guess something as small as wheel base won’t change anything and is snake oil just like triple clamp material, design, split clamp or solid, clamp bolt torques specs or material, greased or not greased, thread lock or no thread lock. If none of that mattered just grab a wrench and throw your bike back together with the ole it’s good an tight method… i’ll stick with my torque wrench and make sure its put together properly and yes you can feel the difference in mount design, torque specs, both stiffer and softer. 

I don't doubt you can feel a difference, but I wonder if you are feeling what you expect instead of what is happening.

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3
brocster
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Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
5/20/2024 9:32pm

Call me stupid.  I thought torque specs were for maximum hold (making one) without stretching, fatiguing or snapping the bolt or stripping the threads. Never mind under torquing and coming loose…Never In a million years would I have thought of it as a variable for tuning the flex of my motorcycle frame.  I’ll gracefully bow out and leave this to the nano flex feelers of frame mounts over the myriad of other physics going on between the tires, tire pressure, suspension, linkage, hot, cold, expansion, contraction, rider, young, old, fat, skinny, experienced, novice, wet, dry, sand, mud, etc, etc.  oh! and psyche!  Feel on brothers…I’m sticking with Goose and Josh. 

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Smith246
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Jerramungup, WA, AU
5/21/2024 12:59am

I'll put torque settings in the same category as floating axle blocks. Happy to be proven wrong but what is floating once your axle nut is tightened up?

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