Track insurance cost?

EastFlorida
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EastFlorida
Edited Date/Time 2/3/2018 9:37am
What kind of insurance is need to protect the owner when running a track?

Would it be any different if you had some land that you wanted to set up some trails on and a few tracks for practice?

I've read that you should have a "members only" arrangement to further protect the owner.

FTE - would you know anything about this?

Thanks!
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kripple428
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kripple428 9/2/2011 6:44pm
9/2/2011 6:44pm
You should still have insurance if anyone is going to be doing any kind of riding on your land because if they crash and have to take an ambulance ride or even worst airlifted out their insurance can sue you and since its your land you will be responsible
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mxlaw
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mxlaw 9/2/2011 7:27pm
9/2/2011 7:27pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2011 7:33pm
I am a lawyer but as a disclaimer this is not intended as legal advice and no attorney/client relationship exists by virtue of this comment. My family also owns a track. In my experience you need to have insurance if anyone rides on your land and unfortunately there are only a few carriers that will insure a track so there is somewhat of a monopoly and it is expensive. You also need to have a very, very good release that covers both riders and spectators in addition to the standard AMA release and be careful in Florida as to a release for a minor to be safe have both parents sign as there is some Florida caselaw that says if only one parent signs the other parent can still sue (in that case the parents were either separated or divorced but had joint custody of minor, ruling was appealed but I am not sure how it came out). Finally you should know that insurance carriers regularly check you tube and social media and if anything is posted that happens at your track that the insurance company thinks looks unsafe then they are likely to call for a meeting with you as the track owner and raise your insurance rates. It is not a bad idea to have video cameras posted at your track to protect yourself against what someone might say happened on your track either (ie. a flagger ran out in front of me or there was a piece of equipment on the track or the track wasn't marked) as some will try to blame the track instead of accepting responsibilty for their own mistake or crash.
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 9/2/2011 7:30pm
9/2/2011 7:30pm
Well, well, well...

Somebody's doin' some thinkin'...NICE!

This is an Ubber-Important and effective Q...you need Sondy's input...she'll know aaaallllllll about this!
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EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 9/2/2011 7:31pm
9/2/2011 7:31pm Edited Date/Time 9/2/2011 7:32pm
MXLaw,

Does it make any difference whether you have an open facility for play riding or are holding organized races.

Does it matter if you are open 1 day per week vs every day?

Yes, I understand this is not legal advise nor protected by attorney/client priv.

Thanks!

The Shop

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ThePipe
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ThePipe 9/2/2011 7:34pm
9/2/2011 7:34pm
R@YOR
EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 9/2/2011 7:40pm
9/2/2011 7:40pm
ThePipe wrote:
R@YOR
I don't think that will cover the owner - even though it SHOULD!
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mxlaw
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mxlaw 9/2/2011 7:48pm
9/2/2011 7:48pm
@East Florida Yes, if you have races most carriers will also require you to have race insurance which is an entirely different policy or at least a rider for races based on your race schedule. If it is open for just play riding I would still have insurance and a release as you would be surprised how fast a "friend" you were just letting ride will turn into a plaintiff when he can't work because he is hurt and his wife is mad because he is not earning the income he did. The members only thing saves you from having to get a release each time the person rides because you just make the release vaiid for the membership term (ie. a year). And it protects you some because a member has a harder time saying they didn't know the track conditions than someone that just shows up one time and for instance enters the track in the wrong direction and gets hit head on. But a caveat with membership is to make sure that it is membership in a riding club not that the member is obtaining any kind of a use easement in your land or you will have a hard time kicking them out if things go south.
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EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 9/2/2011 8:00pm
9/2/2011 8:00pm
MXLaw,

Is there any risk in allowing law enforcement officers to ride for free in exchange for them helping out during off duty hours in providing security and rules enforcement at the facility?
.
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mxlaw
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mxlaw 9/2/2011 8:02pm
9/2/2011 8:02pm
Oh, and one more thing, I would not own the land that the track is on in my individual name. I would form a quick LLC or corporation and deed the land that the track is on in the name of the LLC or corporation and not let the LLC or corporation own anything else. That way if the LLC or corporation gets sued all of your personal assets are not at risk. Any corporate attorney can form an LLC for you and tell you how to change the title and explain corporate ownership to you. Good luck and ride safe.
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mxlaw
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mxlaw 9/2/2011 8:13pm
9/2/2011 8:13pm
@East Florida Probably no more risk than anyone else relative to the riding, but I would still have them sign a release. That is actually creating a form of a mutual benefit use of your land and just because you are not charging them does not mean that you are not liable if they get hurt.
And if it is not an arms length transaction with the security deal, then if "security" does something that harms someone at your track, ie. throwing someone out and injuring them in the process, then they might be deemed your employees or agents instead of independent contractors and then you might be liable for their actions as your agents as well. Don't mean to worry you, but there are a number of issues involved with starting any kind of an enterprise and it sounds like you are just trying to be a nice guy. It is probably worth the cost of a consultation to meet with a local attorney and just make sure you have protected yourself.
National Motorsports 10/14/2013 9:44am
10/14/2013 9:44am
We insure tracks, riding parks and club policies and have for about 20 years.

If you get a quote to cover a track, make sure it has participant legal liability and make sure the policy doesn't exclude motorized vehicles of any kind. While this sounds like a "well no duh", I have seen many policies where tracks think they are protected, but are not... they basically wasted their money on a junk policy.

Carriers come and go, rates go up and down. As MX Law says, we make sure that the facility has proper procedures for flaggers, riding equipment, emergency response, fencing, waivers (we have specific waivers for many states that are included in our packages) etc. There can be a lot of underwriting for parks and tracks so be aware that this is not auto insurance... it is not typically secured in a matter of minutes.

I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone has on proper coverage.
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Trailguider
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Trailguider 2/3/2018 9:37am
2/3/2018 9:37am
mxlaw wrote:
@East Florida Probably no more risk than anyone else relative to the riding, but I would still have them sign a release. That is actually creating...
@East Florida Probably no more risk than anyone else relative to the riding, but I would still have them sign a release. That is actually creating a form of a mutual benefit use of your land and just because you are not charging them does not mean that you are not liable if they get hurt.
And if it is not an arms length transaction with the security deal, then if "security" does something that harms someone at your track, ie. throwing someone out and injuring them in the process, then they might be deemed your employees or agents instead of independent contractors and then you might be liable for their actions as your agents as well. Don't mean to worry you, but there are a number of issues involved with starting any kind of an enterprise and it sounds like you are just trying to be a nice guy. It is probably worth the cost of a consultation to meet with a local attorney and just make sure you have protected yourself.
Hello MXlaw I am developing a app and website for trail guides and I really could use your knowlage can I please give you a call. If you dont want to drop contact info you can send me a message in the contact section of Trailguider.com
jayferguson
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jayferguson 4/17/2024 1:15am
4/17/2024 1:15am

I understand this is an older thread but is National Motorsports still on here? Need some help on insurance. 

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quadzrulebro 4/17/2024 4:46am
4/17/2024 4:46am
jayferguson wrote:

I understand this is an older thread but is National Motorsports still on here? Need some help on insurance. 

I volunteer with a club track.  We use K&K Insurance out of Fort Wayne, IN for our event insurance.  They do all kinds of event insurance.  Races, concerts, etc.

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lumpy790
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lumpy790 4/17/2024 12:01pm
4/17/2024 12:01pm

While most of us realize and accept the responsibility that there is a risk for injury every time we ride unfortunately there is also a line of lawyers wanting to sue to make a buck.

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JustMX
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JustMX 4/17/2024 12:26pm
4/17/2024 12:26pm
jayferguson wrote:

I understand this is an older thread but is National Motorsports still on here? Need some help on insurance. 

their phone number and website are in their post.

i would suggest trying those as opposed to waiting for a reply here.

just sayin'

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lumpy790
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lumpy790 4/17/2024 12:32pm
4/17/2024 12:32pm
jayferguson wrote:

I understand this is an older thread but is National Motorsports still on here? Need some help on insurance. 

JustMX wrote:

their phone number and website are in their post.

i would suggest trying those as opposed to waiting for a reply here.

just sayin'

Agreed 

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Pit Row

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Hollywood009 4/17/2024 1:12pm
4/17/2024 1:12pm

Its always the stupid shit that you need insurance for, I worked at a track when I was a teenager, saw plenty of stupid stuff... parent's run out on a live track when their kids cash, only to hurt themselves or cause a crash.  Saw a truck pulling in, driver not paying attention runs off the gravel path and hits a tree (obviously its the tracks fault Huh).  My favorite was the guy that tried to sit on a generator, right on the bright red heat shield that read "caution hot," he sued, I even had to give a deposition, and he won Angry

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TheGetFresh 4/17/2024 8:55pm
4/17/2024 8:55pm
jayferguson wrote:

I understand this is an older thread but is National Motorsports still on here? Need some help on insurance. 

They are still around. I called them 2 weeks ago and they were very helpful. 

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Zacka 161
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Zacka 161 4/17/2024 9:11pm
4/17/2024 9:11pm

And this is another in the ongoing over and over reasons why single payer healthcare, well funded public transport and walkable cities is THE key to motocross having a viable future. 

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