Posts
2015
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edelstein, IL, USA
Edited Date/Time
1/27/2012 1:19pm
What is going on with all these tragedies in motocross. Here a week after we lost Jesse , I have read or heard about 4 more that happened over the weekend. 2 were children (12 and 14) and 2 were fathers and husbands.
I ride and my children race , I think deep down we know it can happen but the frequency is getting higher. I know a couple of them were head injuries from what I have read,
Our family has been holding all these families in our prayers.
I ride and my children race , I think deep down we know it can happen but the frequency is getting higher. I know a couple of them were head injuries from what I have read,
Our family has been holding all these families in our prayers.
However, many people are completely RIGHT that we need to know someway if we are just more aware or if the sport is more dangerous with 4 strokes / tracks / safety equipment. I argued until I was blue in the face with EIDave about this very topic and have thought a lot about it since, anyways that argument is water under the bridge however, I do believe the ability to post on message boards, send out information and reach a lot more people does make it appear the sport has increased in danger.
Dave is right though, we need to know the answers before the feds catch on and we are in a whole heap of trouble then.
In my disagreement with Regis on this issue, I have never disagreed that MX is inherently dangerous. That is obvious. We wear helmets.
However, I maintain that the rate of instance has increased, significantly, over the last few years.
The responsible thing is for the sport's leadership (in amateur racing that is the AMA) to fund a study on the rate of instance, the why there is a real or perceived increase in rate of instance and how to fix or reduce this issue.
If we are not proactive, the government is going to get proactive for us.
and we're not going to like their way of being proactive
1). More people do it now than ever before
2). Faster and faster machines capable of much more than just a decade ago
3). Tracks built bigger and bigger.
4). Smaller world with the net.
5). our body's are still as fragile as when we raced XR75's at Saddleback, Escape Country, and Indian Dunes.
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The sport has evolved like crazy, but our bodies haven't, so when we crash we're hitting the ground faster and harder. I don't know man-the sport still has its risks. But so does competitive cheerleading. The injury stats on that activity are pretty severe-no joke. Pick your poison, or play online poker I guess.
2. agreed
3. agreed
4. possible reason
5. But safety equipment has improved, but it seems more people die, why?
(In general maybe not taking into account our recent economic slip the last few years.) But over the last 20 years in our country the HOBBY of ing and racing have many more people than ever before. And I can prove it.
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/motorcycle-sales-growth.htm
There were more bike sales and higher race attendance in those days, than the last ten years.
You're giving post 4-stroke numbers, go back to before 4-strokes....1980's and 1970's...sales were higher as was participation.
we've had this discussion (fight) many times on here
Remember driving the 91 in the am on a Thursday towards the IE. No dirt bikes. Now today?
Pit Row
On the subject of more injuries then in the past I think it's a combination of things. Yes I agree that the internet does make it so every single spine injury or death is highly publisized where back in the day we only heard if it was a famous racer. That in itself makes it seem far worse these days for sure.
As far as kid injuries go I don't think it's the bikes as much as it is the sx style tracks. Kids are riding the same size 2 strokes as we did back in the day. The problem is they're hitting huge 60-80 ft jumps on those same two strokes. I really think we need to focus on taming down the tracks at the amateur level. We have beginer/novice,and mini bike riders out there hitting pro triples. I've been places where the track builders build jumps that were only intended for pros to hit and next thing you know some 9-11 80 cc rider is hucking it. Then you get the trickle down where a stuborn 250 beginner hucks it because he saw an 80 rider do it and now the whole beginer class i8s hitting it too. Why is it so important to track builders to build non forgiving doubles and triples when they can build a safe table top just as big.
Were 40-45 year old guys doing 90 foot tabletops and monster doubles back in the 80s--like they do with regularity now? The Vet classes are extremely popular. The bikes evolve and allow us to go bigger, but the forces of gravity don't change.
And it's obvious that kids are doing jumps on 85s now that would have been challenging for your A class or even pro rider 20 years ago.
Hell, I was at an arenacross and there was a kid doing the catapult on a 65!
F1 is so much safer nowdays because of the safety rules put in place over the years.
EG: after Ayrton Senna died and they proved it was because the front wheel broke off and struck him on the head they made all teams use a wheel restraint system so if the wheel snapped off it was still attached by a device to the car.
Perhaps it should be mandatory to wear a neck brace and chest protector ?
Perhaps there should be a system put in place whereby you have to be a certain age and / or riding ability to race or practice on a track with SX type obstacles ?
But I think the suspension do have something to do with it. When did racers start blitzing whoops and doing rhythm sections?
Every year, the barriers for entry of an everyday family grow through:
1. Increased costs
2. Decreased land to ride on
3. Increased awareness of safety issues
The internet will naturally cause number 3 to increase whether or not the sport is actually getting more dangerous. As costs increase and available land decreases, we need to work to bridge the gap in safety between our sport and others if we wish to pull in new members. OTHERWISE, the manufacturers will continue passing their costs onto the remaining moto community, and we will end up paying more for our bikes, more to ride at our tracks, etc.
Let's break down MX rules and what is technically legal
army boots (that cover the ankle)
Jeans
Long sleeve T
Helmet (DOT) full or open face
Goggles
Garden gloves
That's it!
Track....Umm.....No jumps before first turn, supposed to be 20 feet wide
Uhh...I think that's it!
LET'S RACE!!
I am not convinced there is one single factor. It is a combination of things that have led us to this point. If we make jumps smaller, then the track becomes faster,you would think with higher speeds the risk of bigger injuries would . The majority of serious accidents I can recently remember were low impact, low speed crashes, not from jumping.
It would be really hard to put a finger on one thing, maybe not impossible but very hard.
I know the argument about kids going faster earlier has been said, but does anybody have any substantial proof of an accident where a kid was simply flying too far or going too fast that was the problem.
I always seem to read about other people, getting landed on, starts.....
Either way it is tragic. I pray no one gets hurt and we don't have to read about it but we should all brace ourselves for hearing a lot more about it with the internet.
Maybe we all understood the risk before but took the whole "out of sight , out of mind" approach and turned our back because we never wanted to believe it could happen to us, we were invisible. That's what I told my mom when she used to worry. Now with news hitting us everyday, maybe we are willing or wanting to look at the truth a little closer.
what we need to do (and this was Daves idea BTW) is to not try to forget but to log all these accidents and try to see a common factor in them and then eliminate it. Is it gear? Is it kids jumping to far? is it kids riding 85's with big bikes (I think this example is a no brainer). Is it whoops? Is it starts? we need to find the problem first (if there is one)
How de we do that?
RIP: Billy Bantau
Now I am not a weirdo or need to know specifics but what happened? Was it a start? A heart attack? cased jump? tangle with another rider?
maybe we could do something or if someone could focus on the specific of the accident(s) we hear about.
Sucks to hear. but this is another case where I could have gone another day not reminded of how dangerous the sport could be.
It sucks when folks get hurt. We do need to know something about real statistics. Unfortunately, the place these come from typically is insurance and nobody that rides a dirt bike wants to admit they got hurt riding. So, there are no real statistics. The AMA certainly isn't going to make a serious effort at getting the numbers (or they already would have).
Moving on. Assume injuries are more frequent and more severe. Basic logic tells us that if you hit the ground harder, the injury is more severe. There are also the freak accidents that have always happened. A low speed crash landing in a way or on a part that is very vulnerable. That probably hasn't changed much IMO.
I remember seeing a pic from Mosier in the '80s on here once. They caught air back then. It probably was a lot more pounding when they landed, but they caught air. But, I don't think beginner's and novices were taking those bigger hits.
The bikes are undeniably faster. The tracks definitely have bigger hits and more of them. I think all that is undeniable. I doubt you can put the genie back in the bottle.
Getting a real database going of injuries would be useful. Otherwise it's just speculation.
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