2024 KTM Factory Edition Frame/Chassis Updates

Luxon MX
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2/19/2024 1:30pm

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

27
1
soggy
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2/19/2024 1:37pm Edited Date/Time 2/19/2024 1:39pm
Luxon MX wrote:
There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis... For 2023 they took what was a well...

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides gives feedback. Aternatively tell him you changed something when you didn’t change anything. I don’t think it would ever happen cause there is no benefit to keefer but it would be an interesting video. 

6
UGOTBIT
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2/19/2024 1:49pm

@Luxon MX Billy are you/most aftermarket linkage manufacturers going back to the older size/shape/weight linkage systems when designing for the 23/24?

Luxon MX
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2/19/2024 1:59pm
soggy wrote:
I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides...

I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides gives feedback. Aternatively tell him you changed something when you didn’t change anything. I don’t think it would ever happen cause there is no benefit to keefer but it would be an interesting video. 

Been trying to arrange a test with Keefer for more than two years now. He's always too "busy"...

15

The Shop

Luxon MX
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2/19/2024 2:02pm
UGOTBIT wrote:

@Luxon MX Billy are you/most aftermarket linkage manufacturers going back to the older size/shape/weight linkage systems when designing for the 23/24?

I would like to, but we can't. The frame and swingarm are sized for the larger bolts, so we're stuck with them. We're making the knuckle lighter, but using the stock bearings. 

We could supply some sort of reducing bushings for the smaller bolts, but that gets to be a lot of parts. We'd also have to supply bolts, nuts, etc. It would drive the price up significantly. 

4
soggy
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2/19/2024 2:52pm
Luxon MX wrote:

Been trying to arrange a test with Keefer for more than two years now. He's always too "busy"...

That sucks.

1
Redrcr34
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2/19/2024 4:17pm
Luxon MX wrote:
There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis... For 2023 they took what was a well...

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

Thanks for the info and thorough explanation. I still prefer the 19-22 sxf over the current gen, I’m still riding a 21.

2
Village Idiot
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2/19/2024 4:30pm
Luxon MX wrote:
There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis... For 2023 they took what was a well...

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

soggy wrote:
I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides...

I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides gives feedback. Aternatively tell him you changed something when you didn’t change anything. I don’t think it would ever happen cause there is no benefit to keefer but it would be an interesting video. 

Many years ago when he was on the original monoshock Yamaha (think triangular swingarm), Rodney Barr was complaining about his rear shock to his dad, Bobby.

Bobby reached under the rear fender, fiddled with rebound adjuster and sent him back out. Next time around, Rodney told him it was good now. A bystander asked Bobby what he'd done. He said he turned it a couple clicks right then a couple clicks left, ending back where he started.

"It's all in the boy's head". Grinning

3
1
MX558
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2/19/2024 5:51pm
soggy wrote:
I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides...

I would love for you and keefer to get together for a day. You change a part (or change nothing) without telling keefer and he rides gives feedback. Aternatively tell him you changed something when you didn’t change anything. I don’t think it would ever happen cause there is no benefit to keefer but it would be an interesting video. 

Luxon MX wrote:

Been trying to arrange a test with Keefer for more than two years now. He's always too "busy"...

That probably won't ever happen lol

Darrin Willis
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Red Deer County, AB, CA
2/19/2024 6:01pm

Rigidity is the new bs buzzword. When a a local c rider says he wants to trade his 23 in on a 25 for more frame flex bob hanaha pukes in his mouth. 

6
JB 19
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2/19/2024 6:08pm
Many years ago when he was on the original monoshock Yamaha (think triangular swingarm), Rodney Barr was complaining about his rear shock to his dad, Bobby...

Many years ago when he was on the original monoshock Yamaha (think triangular swingarm), Rodney Barr was complaining about his rear shock to his dad, Bobby.

Bobby reached under the rear fender, fiddled with rebound adjuster and sent him back out. Next time around, Rodney told him it was good now. A bystander asked Bobby what he'd done. He said he turned it a couple clicks right then a couple clicks left, ending back where he started.

"It's all in the boy's head". Grinning

The joke is on you guys that never learned how to set a bike up and think that the clickers and springs and everything else does nothing.    

1
1
Village Idiot
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2/19/2024 8:42pm
JB 19 wrote:
The joke is on you guys that never learned how to set a bike up and think that the clickers and springs and everything else does...

The joke is on you guys that never learned how to set a bike up and think that the clickers and springs and everything else does nothing.    

Huh?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but the point of my story was related to the exchange between soggy and Luxon and people saying they feel changes that weren't made and vice-versa.

1
Whip
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2/20/2024 12:35am
Luxon MX wrote:
There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis... For 2023 they took what was a well...

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

Sandusky26
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2/20/2024 4:00am

Luxon and Keefer should fight.

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1
wrc777
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2/20/2024 4:28am
Luxon MX wrote:
There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis... For 2023 they took what was a well...

There's a significant marketing spin to some of the engineering changes they've made to the 2024.5 (2025+) chassis...

For 2023 they took what was a well designed bearing and seal configuration on the previous generation bikes and made all the bearings the same size (and bigger), likely for cost/inventory reduction. Because of this, the entire knuckle got bigger, as did the bolts. This resulted in a much heavier linkage assembly. This, and similar changes throughout the bike, lead to the ~7 pound weight increase over the 2022, which is a pretty big step backwards. 

So for 2025, they decided to go back to the old bearing configuration. Rather than admit the previous design wasn't ideal, marketing decided to spin it as a change for rigidity reasons. This is ridiculous. The flex of the linkage assembly is insignificantly tiny compared to that of the frame. 

I'm sure the chassis has less rigidity, but this doesn't come from the linkage at all. It's mostly all in the frame. Similar thoughts on the shock tower window. They could design a more rigid shock tower with a window in it than one without, it's all in the material thickness and geometry. But it's easy for marketing to spin a big hole as a rigidity reduction. I would bet that 90% or more of the overall chassis rigidity change comes from the material thickness and tube geometry changes in the main frame tubes rather than the shock tower, and certainly not the linkage. The engine mounts will likely have some effect, but still small in comparison to that of the frame.

And regarding the "floating" axle, it's a placebo affect. There's absolutely nothing floating about it once you tighten the axle nut. 

I have not seen KTM talking about weight reduction on the updated bike but it has to have lost some weight.

 

Do you think the new engine mounts will reduce some of the higher frequency engine vibration being transmitted to the frame?

Luxon MX
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2/20/2024 7:17am
Sandusky26 wrote:

Luxon and Keefer should fight.

No fight or test to prove either of us wrong; just a test of our clamps. I think we could both learn a lot from each other.

3
Luxon MX
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2/20/2024 7:21am
wrc777 wrote:
I have not seen KTM talking about weight reduction on the updated bike but it has to have lost some weight.   Do you think the...

I have not seen KTM talking about weight reduction on the updated bike but it has to have lost some weight.

 

Do you think the new engine mounts will reduce some of the higher frequency engine vibration being transmitted to the frame?

They're unlikely to make any difference in vibration; it's still a metal chunk directly bolted to the frame. Barring the old mounts having some bizarre harmonics that the new ones don't, the mounts would need to have some sort of damping element to make an appreciable difference in vibration transmission. 

2
Shiny_Shu
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Blackland, TX, USA
3/1/2024 2:33pm

Can anyone here give me some tips on how to preserve the orange frame underneath the frame guards and skid plate?

avidchimp
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EGL, MN, USA
3/1/2024 2:42pm
Shiny_Shu wrote:

Can anyone here give me some tips on how to preserve the orange frame underneath the frame guards and skid plate?

Clear vinyl tape.

2
3/1/2024 3:39pm

I use this stuff. I also use it on my cone valve fork lugs and upper tubes, then put fork stickers over. It’s pretty thick, and sticks incredibly well

IMG 4198

2
Sandusky26
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3/1/2024 3:45pm

What's up with the spacers/braces I seen on the Clubmx bikes triple clamps?

oldnescVet
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By The Sea, CT, USA
3/1/2024 4:20pm

So are they back to a 2022 yet. 

UGOTBIT
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3/1/2024 4:20pm
Sandusky26 wrote:

What's up with the spacers/braces I seen on the Clubmx bikes triple clamps?

The little dog bones on the side of the clamps act like a little tie bar making them stiffer, if you like that feel

1
Luxon MX
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3/1/2024 6:40pm
Sandusky26 wrote:

What's up with the spacers/braces I seen on the Clubmx bikes triple clamps?

It stiffens things up front to back without affecting stiffness in other directions. Useful for really fast guys and reduces the wandering under big g-outs and such. Not usually recommend for the average rider. 

1

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