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Sorry homie, I've got a business to run and can't hang around vital waiting for replies.
As per your questions...
Where your clients come from?
The people my wife's organization helps out comes from all walks of life. The unhoused community is waaayyyyy bigger than the few people you see strung out on the street which goes back to my previously voiced frustrations about voting. A great example of this was when they idea of offering hotel rooms to the unhoused came up. All the right leaning media created a massive uproar when it was proposed because it's an easy issue to bump the ratings, "ANY AND ALL DRUG ADDICTS GET A FREE ROOM?!?!?! WHAT THE FUCK?!?! THEY CARE ABOUT THE HOMELESS MORE THAN THEY CARE ABOUT YOU!!!", when in reality the idea was created to try and help all the abused women, foster kids, struggling families, and veterans out there living on the street. But, fuck all those folks who need the help, it's better to let 1,000 people suffer than let 1 person exploit the system.
Do they come to you when they are ready to change?
Again, it's my wife's line of work not mine, but from everything I hear / people I talk to, it's what you would expect; a mixed bag.
Or are your clients a mixture of broad spectrum homeless.
Yes, her's are.
Lastly, back to the topic at hand, how do you feel that the homeless can set up camp anywhere?
I've got mixed feelings about it (of which I feel like a majority of us do). Like your wife, I've got a fair amount of homeless encampments around my business, and home, and as much as I wish they weren't there – having interacted with a fair amount of them – they really don't have many other places to go so they keep to theirs and I keep to mine. My grandpa was actually on and off homeless for most of his adult life. His meds would work, he'd think he was cured, he would stop taking them, shit would go sideways, he'd end up on the street, he'd get some help, his meds would work, he'd think he was cured, he would stop taking them, shit would goes sideways, he'd end up no the street (and so on).
If the students park on the street, they'll ticket the shit out of them but yet a homeless vehicle can be there for 2 weeks with no intervention by the cops what so ever.
Which goes back to my previous point of, you can't punish people out of homelessness. They already have nothing, so while they sleep in their cars – often to be close to their massively underpaid job – we give them tickets they can't afford to pay (again, underpaid job) so that they eventually get arrested because they can't pay the tickets because they can't afford to not live in their car. But this goes back to a whole cost of living conversation in this country which is way bigger, albiet is currently playing, a major role in the increase of unhoused.
This is the reality of what the homeless bring to neighborhoods. People have a right to be pissed off. Even if they keep to themselves, would you feel comfortable with your kids playing outside if, this was in the parking lot across the street from your residence?
Keep sugar coating it.
That's not the reality of what homelessness brings to neighborhoods; that is one aspect of the reality of what homelessness brings to neighborhoods... but you right leaning folks love to use your extremes when trying to set up a fiery argument.
For a self proclaimed dude who loves a good argument you'd think you'd know that you never start at the extreme, it never gives you anywhere to go but down.
But, as mentioned in the other thread, I'm out for the night. The wife is taking me to dinner!!! I'll double back soon.
Lastly, back to the topic at hand, how do you feel that the homeless can set up camp anywhere?
I've got mixed feelings about it (of which I feel like a majority of us do). Like your wife, I've got a fair amount of homeless encampments around my business, and home, and as much as I wish they weren't there – having interacted with a fair amount of them – they really don't have many other places to go so they keep to theirs and I keep to mine. My grandpa was actually on and off homeless for most of his adult life. His meds would work, he'd think he was cured, he would stop taking them, shit would go sideways, he'd end up on the street, he'd get some help, his meds would work, he'd think he was cured, he would stop taking them, shit would goes sideways, he'd end up no the street (and so on).
Wombat, watch https://youtu.be/mhOOziH7QAo
from 22:30 - 40:55 and let me know what you think. I say this because it's mostly about MEDS. the ones your grandpa and everyone else takes
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Funny that your first thought is I’m right leaning. Trying to throw a label on someone because they have a different point of view proves how narrow your mind is. Kinda like when Antifa is running around downtown Seattle calling people who have jobs to go to, fascists. He doesn’t agree with me so he must be???? That’s weak bud.
Never once have I voiced a political opinion within this forum stating which side of the line I’m on. But, I will say, I don’t trust either side of the government and, I don’t base hope on whether the president’ is Republican or, Democrat.
Which side am I on?
That photo isn’t an extreme. It’s the reality of what downtown Seattle is becoming. The reality of store owners and, homeowners who are left powerless to do anything about it. I show you a couple pics of what many streets are becoming here and, you’ll argue, that’s just one city. One example. That’s just the extreme.
Let’s not go in circles.
Nothing funnier than a guy who's posted roughly 5,000 times saying, "you don't know me, bro".
While you're photo does reflect an aspect of homelessness it doesn't reflect the entire reality of homelessness like you're attempting to do (that's what I mean about always going to extremes to prove a point); it's akin to saying this photo...
represents all dirt bikers.
"That's not the reality of what homelessness brings to neighborhoods; that is one aspect of the reality of what homelessness brings to neighborhoods."
You might want to believe that, but that IS the face of homelessness. And while there ARE other types of homelessness, it's disingenuous to not acknowledge this is the type of homeless this thread is about.
Here I come to the table, with hundreds of years of collective experience in my pocket, tell you how it is on the ground (as I sit here on my Saturday morning prepping for another homeless services event) and I literally agree with you all by saying, "Yeah, this is part of homelessness BUT it isn't the whole picture" and you say literally the same thing as me, "yeah, there are other types of homelessness" then contradict yourself by saying, "this is the face of homelessness", then try and disqualify the whole conversation by saying, "FYI we're only talking about this type of homelessness in this picture."
The way you guys twist and turn any bit of information to fit whatever your agenda is exhausting.
How do you expect to have a well rounded discussion about homelessness if you're not willing to talk about all aspects of homelessness?
“How do you expect to have a well rounded discussion about homelessness if you're not willing to talk about all aspects of homelessness?”
You’re right. We can’t. Clearly, the only perspective that matters is your own point of view. I’m not trying to convince anyone to think differently. Unfortunately, based on what your saying is, you’re the smartest person in the room and,l refuse to look other examples.
Have you recently been to downtown Seattle?
I could blindly pick out a street on a map. Drive down it and, there will be several areas on the sides of that street that look just like those pictures. It isn’t limited to just a block or, two.
Terms like agenda add nothing to a conversation. Here you are labeling again. They don’t agree so, there’s an agenda. Once again, that’s weak
I’ve never said, those pictures represented all homeless people. You’re just moving the goal post.
You (wombat) mentioned people living in their cars, near their job "that doesn't pay enough"
Washington state has the the 5th highest homeless population in the country, about 30 people out of 10,000 is what Google says.
We also have the highest minimum wage in the country at $16.28/hour. Having such a high minimum wage appears to do nothing in regards to keeping folks who work from living their cars.
Wanna talk about people who only think their perspectives matter?
I suggested that if we're going to have a real discussion around homelessness we have to talk about more than just the folks that make for good photos and it's more of the same from you lot, "blah blah blah, twist the words twist the words twist the words, attack attack attack".
Grow up.
I'm not too familiar with how it's working up in Washington so anything I say would be a guess and I'm just not comfortable throwing personal opinions into things I know so little about.
What I can say is, as someone living in Los Angeles who engages with the homeless quite a bit, is "the rent is too damn high" in the area's that tend to employee a lot of people who make minimum wage. So, there is no way these people can afford to rent in or near the neighborhoods they work. So they have to live a long ass away from their work and spend either time or money (but isn't time just money?) commuting to and from work... or just live in a car near their work.
I'm not saying minimum wage is the fix all end all to the problems we have a society, but, like the Romans experienced, we're seeing how much an increasing wealth disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom fucks up a society. It's just a matter of time, like every great nation before us, that the poor decide to eat the rich. Shit's cyclical. Not to mention the rich are all over instagram like a bunch of dumbasses showing off how rich they are just begging for someone to snap... but that's a whole other can of worms.
He doesn’t agweeee wit me.
Boofuckinhoo
Enjoy the races Pee Wee.
See, again, nothing of substance.
But...
(I hope you enjoy the races as well, bummed it's another mudder but thank god it's happening now vs the end of the season).
"The way you guys twist and turn any bit of information to fit whatever your agenda is exhausting."
So, as the person who started this thread, maybe I made a mistake by not adding the word "encampment" in the thread title. IF you read the first post, you would know that the thread was intended about the encampments. However, I do have a genuine interest in the success of your work. So I did let it get side tracked by being interested so I'll take the blame on that one.
"How do you expect to have a well rounded discussion about homelessness if you're not willing to talk about all aspects of" homelessness?
In referencing your posted pic illustrating that's not the face of motorcycle riders, in certain areas it is. You can go out to the desert and see many folks just like that. But if the topic were about wheelie boys motorcycle riders and you tried to add in the desert crowd, is it really "not having a well rounded discussion" because you wanted broaden the topic?
And as far as your having 100s of years of collective experience, again I don't want to diminish your work in this field because I believe it's great that you're doing that. We could also come back and say WE have 1,000s of years of collective experience with negative dealings with homeless encampments. South of Lahaina we have many beaches (prior to the fire) that you have people that live in vehicles or tents on the beach, why because it's cheap and easy and you can surf every morning. And I'm not bringing that up in the conversation because the intent of the thread was the blocks and blocks of encampments in the cities.
TM
I’ll just leave with this. It isn’t about throwing in the towel and, losing a debate. Who’s right or, wrong. I don’t keep score
Going in circles is a waste of time for both of us.
If you’re ever in the Seattle area, hit me up. I’ll gladly play tour guide and, show you around. Maybe, just maybe, that’s the only way to show you, I’m not just picking and, choosing “extreme examples” of the homeless situation in Seattle.
For now, enjoy that soapbox.
I normally will not post in these discussions but the Reality is There is no solution for a problem that has been around for thousands of years. Churches and others have helped but there will never be a cure.
Now a part of this that I wish could be helped/cured and that is ex military that are homeless. Sadly PTSD is a large part of those that are homeless.
I live in Los Angeles, home of some of the worst homelessness in the country, surrounded by people who have made this their life's work... but you think me coming to hang out with you in Seattle is going to be some profound experience?
Who's living up on that soapbox, now?
Pit Row
Maybe a comparison will do a better job in helping me illustrate why you can't just fight encampments without fighting all of homelessness...
I think we can both agree that the encampments we see are symptom of a deep-seated cancer in this country, yeah? And for a cancer that runs this deep, you have to fight it with chemo (which attacks the whole body). Without destroying the cancer at its root you'll never be able to stop the symptoms (like encampments) from popping up; they'll just move to another part of the body and or appear as something else.
The wheelie boy comparison is a whole different conversation, which actually, also stems from a similar cancer but we can save that for another day.
I grew up in Los Angeles. I still visit yearly. That was actually an olive branch of decency you can now stick up your granola ass.
Now get back to turning Iadels in your soup kitchen Trick.
Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, Sacramento, San Diego, Fresno, Oakland, Stockton, Santa Cruz, Gilroy, Redding…etc…
I’ve seen what Chance has posted in all those cities. I’ve seen attempts to clean it up (moved them from one location to another), I’ve seen the camps encroach onto/into the Interstates like on the I-280/680 in San Jose, I-80 in San Francisco, 101 in Hollywood, the over-passes of the 110 in L.A., on the freeway in the underpasses of I-10…etc., etc., etc. …
Just last weekend in San Francisco, I saw it in neighborhoods that were “cleaned up” for the Asian Summit…but, they’re already back.
So, it’s disingenuous to call what he posted “extreme”.
As a person that eMTBs in various California locales, I see The Camps EVERYWHERE. Places like Stockton, Modesto, Merced, Sacramento, Redding where I ride River trails/trail systems…I see The Camps. Human Waste…extreme trash/pollution…dangerous bio conditions…any one that’s REALLY seen these places know it’s true…dogs chase us…and, on occasion get put down…I REALLY HATE that (I’ve seen them shot by LEOs…sucks. It’s necessary, but it really sucks). In Redding, I’ve cleaned up,some of the more remote camps where real environmental harm has been done. Some of you probably know that these can become Bio-Haz/Haz-Mat sites…that’s how I end up helping. I’ve been trained in “the Haz-Mat thing” since my late teens due to my work. These sites are NASTY.
While we’re here, let’s not make assumptions and assume all of us have some sort of uniform belief about all this; because, we don’t. Personally, I’ve made it clear that I’m of the belief in the reforms forwarded by Shellenberger.
Another thing, there truly his a Homeless Industrial Complex in California, New York, Illinois…etc. I’m sorry if that offends; but, it’s the truth. Another thing, what has that industry really accomplished for all the dollars spent…? Sad,,but, true…Not much worth talking about. Not when you consider the dollars spent and the lack of real progress.
If that sounds harsh? Well, that sucks…but, here we are.
I understand that in some peoples minds that may sound like I’m trying to make the good people that are trying to address this HUGE problem…maybe some of you think I’m making those people out to be “bad guys”…? Hell NO. Let’s be clear, THEY are doing something about it. They ARE GOOD PEOPLE.
I disagree with their approach and I’m frustrated by that…I’m frustrated by the lack of real “Big Picture” progress…and I’m damn sure they are, too. On the other-hand…I’ve seen some hope…(AKW might need to sit down for this)
In Redding I’ve seen sober-living transitional housing programs that utilize motels in downtown Redding: I’m watching as it progresses…& I AM seeing progress. That gives me hope. So, tell Lady-KillerWombat that while I’m pulling my fuckin’ hair out when I’m looking at the money that’s been thrown at this in Big City Cali…I’m actually seeing a little bit of light way up ahead of me…at the far end of this…via programs like the one in Redding.
Just for clarification, I'm not saying – nor have I said – what Chance posted isn't extreme. In fact, I've been saying that it is extreme, it just isn't an accurate representation of the totality of the folks suffering from homelessness. It's like taking a picture of a guy outside of a bar, passed out and laying in a pool of his own vomit, and saying, "look what drinking does to everyone!". It's using an extreme example to paint an entire population of people in a negative light which lends itself to a punishment over compassion approach (which is what I have been saying since the begging of this chat).
All that to say, I'm stoked you're getting to see some of the positive aspects of the transitional housing programs!!! That's been a really big push lately around here; get people into a safe location that also provides all health, work, law, etc. services they need in one place. It's a hard sell in super dense places like LA but we have a couple in our neighborhood and the too have been doing great things. I, like you, see a light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to all of this. Will it ever be solved completely, of course not, but at the end of this long loooooong tunnel is a better place for all of us.
Call me a bleeding heart libtard but I'm a firm believer in a rising tide lifting all boats. I'm not a religious guy but I feel like that's what what the character of Jesus is meant to teach us.
EDIT+++
"Just last weekend in San Francisco, I saw it in neighborhoods that were “cleaned up” for the Asian Summit…but, they’re already back.", goes exactly into what I've been saying about needing to treat this symptom at its cancerous source. If you don't cure the cancer the symptoms will keep coming back and coming back and coming back until it kill you, the neighborhood, the city, the county, the state, the country.
"I think we can both agree that the encampments we see are symptom of a deep-seated cancer in this country, yeah? And for a cancer that runs this deep, you have to fight it with chemo (which attacks the whole body). Without destroying the cancer at its root you'll never be able to stop the symptoms (like encampments) from popping up; they'll just move to another part of the body and or appear as something else."
I think we can agree the encampments are result of failed many things. Since you use cancer as an example, I'd like to point out that there are many types of cancer. AND we can have success fighting one type of cancer while we're still trying to figure out many others. But like cancer does not want to just go away, so are a large percentage of the homeless encampments. I'm very curious even so I don't think you could give out the information, how many $$s is spent to convert 1 successful family off homelessness. If you treat/help only 1 family out of 20, how much did it cost for the whole 20 to get one success. I truly don't know the numbers and admit a 5% success was pulled out of my ass. It's very difficult for you to argue that this isn't "the face of homelessness" when the industry (for lack of a better term) shows these pictures to ask for money to help.
I'd like to ask this hypothetical. For the sake of discussion, you have a block of encampment tents. You have a limited amount of money to do some help. You decide that you can afford to rent a Biffy and a cleaning station to at least allow some sanitation for the people. Do you believe that after the word gets out, that there is a resource for cleaning and a restroom, would you expect more local tents or less? If you answer more, then a person who did that, then has to grapple with the information, I may have helped some but created a worse problem. How do you reconcile that?
TM
To much money to be made in the homeless industry for it to ever get fixed.
This sounds like my 19yr old son’s behavior. He has severe autism, and has the emotional expressive and receptive capability of a 5 year old. He is frightened by unfamiliar interactions, and will hide his face with his hands like a young child.He’ll run off if he is frightened.
Studies show most homeless have mental health difficulties.
I worry daily what will happen to him when I’m gone.
Mostly a good discussion on this topic. I want to thank everyone that is involved in "helping" the homeless. I also want to give a pat on the back and say "hell of a job " to anyone that has turned their life around. I typed out a couple of paragraphs then deleted them. It was just rehashing a lot of what is in this thread.
Drugs/narcotics are the main problem. Other than a literal war with drug cartels, I am ignorant of how and where to start to solve our dilemma. I guess I will keep my guns handy just in case.
I feel for you and your son. I have a 39 yr old son who is high functioning. He drives (in our small town), has a part time job, and lives on his own. We still have to help him with a lot things, as he can be easily coerced. We started a long time ago planning for his future when we are gone. I believe he could become homeless if our plan doesn't work, but we have back ups in place. If you haven't started a blueprint or outline for your son, please do it now. There are quite a few mentions in this thread about failed or no support systems (family) for the homeless and I would not wish that on anyone.
It's such a complex issue with different subgroups affected. I genuinely feel for the ones who are contributing members of society but are homeless because they can't afford the cost of living. I hope the toothpaste isn't entirely out of the tube for us to revisit why we're allowing corporations and international investors to buy up all of the single-family home residences and causing housing costs to go crazy.
The other subgroups are all over the map, but one thing remains true, the person has to truly want to change for the better and be ready to sacrifice to make it happen. The unfortunate part is that so many are past the point of convincing because mental illness has completely changed who they are/were, regardless if it was self-induced or hereditary.
I wonder how many kids are going to be socially handicapped from the Covid shut downs and will not be able to function in society. They will be the next big round of homeless. But even now, we are importing all these people with no places for the people to live that are already here? That alone should be a reason to secure the border. But no, they will find money to give people that cross into our country illegally and occupy housing that should go to our present population. I would like someone to explain to me how it's a good thing for us to bring in all these illegal aliens. The emphasis on "for us". Yes, I know that there are a portion that pull on my heart strings that they live in squalor but are they living in worse conditions than some of the photos posted here?
TM
Post a reply to: The homeless problem is about to get way worse.