David and Goliath, Stark and KTM

MX Guy
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Southern, CA, USA
Fantasy
1/18/2024 8:54am
Silas444 wrote:
Ever heard of Tesla? They came from nowhere, and now have a market cap bigger than G.M., Ford, and Stellantis (owner of Dodge) combined. I could...

Ever heard of Tesla? They came from nowhere, and now have a market cap bigger than G.M., Ford, and Stellantis (owner of Dodge) combined. I could go on. Microsoft versus IBM, Apple versus Microsoft, K-Mart versus Target, Nike versus Converse. Power has no guarantee of permanence, not for anyone or anything.

My guess is, Stark is now very close to unveiling an 85cc/112cc equivalent bike. When they do that, they will be well on their way to creating a loyalty to their brand. If you're young, whatever seems established also often seems stale, so opportunity knocks for Stark, and I doubt they'll be sheepish about kicking down that door. They're being trifled with by those who wield the power, and indignation makes an excellent fuel for ambition.

The future belongs to those willing to seize upon it and bend it to their will without a moment's concern regarding tradition.

As it should.

Isn’t it amazing when trying to use logic with someone whose outlook on a situation is fueled by nothing more than the projection of personal bias? Guy thinks because he’s failed so many businesses, everyone is doomed from the jump. The difference maker is that successful people innovate. Elon talks about that a lot, that the ability to innovate is an invaluable feat. I would say Stark is doing that, admittedly with some speed bumps along the way, but Tesla certainly had theirs, and still does. 
 

Just wanted to say that what you’ve brought up makes sense to those who reason with logic. Post-high school education also probably helps… Wink

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Silas444
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Mid-state, ME, USA
1/18/2024 1:49pm
You’re first paragraph speaks volumes.  You’re emotional investment also speaks volumes.  Hard to take you serious after that.  90% of start ups fail, if you’ve been...

You’re first paragraph speaks volumes. 
You’re emotional investment also speaks volumes. 
Hard to take you serious after that. 
90% of start ups fail, if you’ve been around long enough in that type of business it’s expected you’ll be part of a few. Even Anton is gonna tell you that Hoss. Keep on shitting out men pal, I’m sure you’re a real Billy Bad ass. 

"You're (sic) first paragraph speaks volumes."

My, what a lovely thing to say, especially when most of the stuff written on here (for example, your first 7 posts) is rife with meaningless boilerplate low-blows that mean absolutely nothing to a well-established Vital-Villain like me. But to say that I "speak volumes" in a single paragraph? Frankly, I'm almost blushing.

But enough about your flattery of me. Here then, is my counter to your flaccid missive.

*Note: Titan 1, I used the term "flaccid missive" just for you. I thought you'd be especially off-put by its torturous verbosity.

I will gladly plead to guilty to having an "emotional investment" in the future of the sport, as it's near and dear to my heart. I don't care if we're all reduced to carrying a set of handlebars while running around in circles in a vacant lot, I'm not giving up until there's truly nothing left to fight for. I'll admit, my attitude makes me something an outlier here, for many have already said that once all the loud noises are gone - poof - so are they. I have zero respect for that attitude. ZEE - ROW. Half a loaf beats starving to death every time it's tried.

We don't have control over legislative bodies, not here, not there, not anywhere. Hell, we don't even have their willing ear. Government legislatures are run by people who live in cities, and people who live in cities lead increasingly interior lives where the things that happen out in the woods mean nothing to them except as being something fun to make illegal. All we are to them is a reminder that they lead boring, adventure-free lives by comparison. They loathe motocross and will gladly dance on its grave. So - we've got to hatch a way to succeed despite all that, and Stark's Varg is the tip of a spear that might lead us toward an unlikely victory. Thus, that company has a tender place in my heart. You think Stark will fail because you've seen so many other things fail and so failing is nothing new to you. Okay. I don't have that experience. My experience is that strong will and original thinking can result in magical things occurring despite absurd odds.

Let me flesh that out a smidgen.

You say 90% of start-ups fail and so Stark will too.

I say 10% of them succeed and so Stark will be among the 10%.

Question: Who's to say which approach is better?

Answer: Me. Mine's better.

A person can make a shit-ton of money shorting stocks and betting against the success of people's dreams, but I don't know any of those people and I don't care to. I hang around strong, persuasive, successful, self-made folks. Their constant presence in my life has ruined the overall balance of my outlook by making me entirely too optimistic. Oh, well. C'est la vie.

 

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4
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
1/18/2024 2:18pm
You’re first paragraph speaks volumes.  You’re emotional investment also speaks volumes.  Hard to take you serious after that.  90% of start ups fail, if you’ve been...

You’re first paragraph speaks volumes. 
You’re emotional investment also speaks volumes. 
Hard to take you serious after that. 
90% of start ups fail, if you’ve been around long enough in that type of business it’s expected you’ll be part of a few. Even Anton is gonna tell you that Hoss. Keep on shitting out men pal, I’m sure you’re a real Billy Bad ass. 

Silas444 wrote:
"You're (sic) first paragraph speaks volumes." My, what a lovely thing to say, especially when most of the stuff written on here (for example, your first...

"You're (sic) first paragraph speaks volumes."

My, what a lovely thing to say, especially when most of the stuff written on here (for example, your first 7 posts) is rife with meaningless boilerplate low-blows that mean absolutely nothing to a well-established Vital-Villain like me. But to say that I "speak volumes" in a single paragraph? Frankly, I'm almost blushing.

But enough about your flattery of me. Here then, is my counter to your flaccid missive.

*Note: Titan 1, I used the term "flaccid missive" just for you. I thought you'd be especially off-put by its torturous verbosity.

I will gladly plead to guilty to having an "emotional investment" in the future of the sport, as it's near and dear to my heart. I don't care if we're all reduced to carrying a set of handlebars while running around in circles in a vacant lot, I'm not giving up until there's truly nothing left to fight for. I'll admit, my attitude makes me something an outlier here, for many have already said that once all the loud noises are gone - poof - so are they. I have zero respect for that attitude. ZEE - ROW. Half a loaf beats starving to death every time it's tried.

We don't have control over legislative bodies, not here, not there, not anywhere. Hell, we don't even have their willing ear. Government legislatures are run by people who live in cities, and people who live in cities lead increasingly interior lives where the things that happen out in the woods mean nothing to them except as being something fun to make illegal. All we are to them is a reminder that they lead boring, adventure-free lives by comparison. They loathe motocross and will gladly dance on its grave. So - we've got to hatch a way to succeed despite all that, and Stark's Varg is the tip of a spear that might lead us toward an unlikely victory. Thus, that company has a tender place in my heart. You think Stark will fail because you've seen so many other things fail and so failing is nothing new to you. Okay. I don't have that experience. My experience is that strong will and original thinking can result in magical things occurring despite absurd odds.

Let me flesh that out a smidgen.

You say 90% of start-ups fail and so Stark will too.

I say 10% of them succeed and so Stark will be among the 10%.

Question: Who's to say which approach is better?

Answer: Me. Mine's better.

A person can make a shit-ton of money shorting stocks and betting against the success of people's dreams, but I don't know any of those people and I don't care to. I hang around strong, persuasive, successful, self-made folks. Their constant presence in my life has ruined the overall balance of my outlook by making me entirely too optimistic. Oh, well. C'est la vie.

 

HA!  "flaccid missive"...You do you bro.    

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1/18/2024 3:25pm

Just imagine how Henry Ford would have been treated if the internet was around back then. A startup company that was going to fight that the idea of a car was not something that could be patented, and win. and then make cars so fast and at such high numbers that they would be affordable for most people.

 

100% of the people who do not try and make their idea become real, fail at making that idea real. a 10% shot at success is still a much better bet than not trying because many have failed. Time will tell if Anton  has a place with Ford and Tesla among people who changed the world.  

 

They have the benefit and disadvantage of being first. They get to build everything from the ground up to work as an EV manufacturer.The current gas bike brands are known for things already. Good and bad.   The Japanese brands will be late to the party. By then the Varg will have been out in the hands of riders and racers for a year minimum or likely 2 or more. When the Japanese bring out their electric MX bike their bikes will be first year models. And many people do not like buying first year models because of issues. Honda looks like it might be the first and I say this as a lover of Honda , Honda has not had great luck with first year models of new generations of bikes when there is a major change. Assuming that there are no major issues with the Varg that are not fixed quickly. Stark will have shown they are going to be around or not by then.  

I'm sure the current bike brands can build a good electric. But will they? Will Honda have a 97 CR250, like issue by trying to play it safe on something? Will Yamaha have their first EMX bike be like their 2010 YZ450? Will Kawasaki and Suzuki's first electric be like their first shared 250F ?   Will KTM's first have handling issues like they did when they signed Mcgrath? They are all way behind Polaris and Can-am when it comes to performance SXS's .   All Stark has to do is make sure that the Varg is as good as everybody who has ridden it says it is and they will be ahead of the game by the time the other brands get a bike out. And not have the baggage of having models that were not great.

Who knows what other brands will have MX bikes by then too. I just hope the sport keeps on the trend of new brands building MX bikes and the growth that brings.

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The Shop

burn1986
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12246
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bossier city, LA, USA
1/18/2024 4:04pm

I'm writing some words here because I don't want to copy paste the whole thing to a forum post 🫠

https://open.substack.com/pub/sinbadtherider/p/david-and-goliath-stark-…

 

So this was your first and only post? Surprised no one’s reported it as spam.

Silas444
Posts
638
Joined
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Mid-state, ME, USA
1/18/2024 4:29pm
Titan1 wrote:

HA!  "flaccid missive"...You do you bro.    

You know I will.

You might find this interesting. In my post, I wrote that I didn't care if we were reduced to carrying a set of handlebars running around a vacant lot.

There's a reason why I used those words.

I shit you not, I did exactly that when I was a little kid, except we were too poor for me to have a set of actual handlebars. So, I took the family axe, went off into the nearby woods, found a branch with the right bends - and off I went into that vacant lot, running around like a total idiot with the neighbors kids looking out their windows at me. Pretty soon they all came out and the fake-races were on. It lasted all summer. I had the best 'bars', so I usually won. Heh heh. Imagination is everything when you're a kid, and to me, those tree branch handlebars were a Works RH Suzuki and I was Sylvain Geboers. I loved them as much as any kid has loved any bike.

If that doesn't demonstrate the level of affection I have for this stupid sport, I don't know what would. 

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Magoofan
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1/18/2024 4:39pm

image-20240118163919-1

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Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
1/18/2024 9:45pm
Silas444 wrote:
You know I will. You might find this interesting. In my post, I wrote that I didn't care if we were reduced to carrying a set...

You know I will.

You might find this interesting. In my post, I wrote that I didn't care if we were reduced to carrying a set of handlebars running around a vacant lot.

There's a reason why I used those words.

I shit you not, I did exactly that when I was a little kid, except we were too poor for me to have a set of actual handlebars. So, I took the family axe, went off into the nearby woods, found a branch with the right bends - and off I went into that vacant lot, running around like a total idiot with the neighbors kids looking out their windows at me. Pretty soon they all came out and the fake-races were on. It lasted all summer. I had the best 'bars', so I usually won. Heh heh. Imagination is everything when you're a kid, and to me, those tree branch handlebars were a Works RH Suzuki and I was Sylvain Geboers. I loved them as much as any kid has loved any bike.

If that doesn't demonstrate the level of affection I have for this stupid sport, I don't know what would. 

Funnily enough I think Thomas Do won the handlebar race at the 2023 Paris Supercross

1
1
Silas444
Posts
638
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Location
Mid-state, ME, USA
1/19/2024 5:39am
Beagle wrote:
Funnily enough I think Thomas Do won the handlebar race at the 2023 Paris Supercross [Img]https://www.motoblouz.com/enjoytheride/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/course_guidon_1.jpg[/IMG]

Funnily enough I think Thomas Do won the handlebar race at the 2023 Paris Supercross

Ohhh man. It is time for me to do some serious training and get a fitness coach and a diet consultant. Boys, I have found a new dream to chase. I am gonna win the 2025 "Handlebars Only" World MX Championship. 

I'm old, yes, terribly so - but before you bet against me, consider this: my racecraft remains next-level.

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1/19/2024 6:30am
Beagle wrote:
Funnily enough I think Thomas Do won the handlebar race at the 2023 Paris Supercross [Img]https://www.motoblouz.com/enjoytheride/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/course_guidon_1.jpg[/IMG]

Funnily enough I think Thomas Do won the handlebar race at the 2023 Paris Supercross

Silas444 wrote:
Ohhh man. It is time for me to do some serious training and get a fitness coach and a diet consultant. Boys, I have found a new...

Ohhh man. It is time for me to do some serious training and get a fitness coach and a diet consultant. Boys, I have found a new dream to chase. I am gonna win the 2025 "Handlebars Only" World MX Championship. 

I'm old, yes, terribly so - but before you bet against me, consider this: my racecraft remains next-level.

Diet consultant might help if you’re shitting out 200lb dudes. 

1
Silas444
Posts
638
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Mid-state, ME, USA
1/19/2024 7:52am

Diet consultant might help if you’re shitting out 200lb dudes. 

It's probably the first thing I'll have to cut out. Won't be easy.

SilentAsassin, you and I got off on very poor footing, but you, like me, are a Mainah, and I love my fellow Mainahs. So let me say this: if you post an cogent argument refuting something I've written, I promise to respond in-kind. Your first posts involved questioning my mental health and stability and also insinuated that I was someone inclined toward performing sexual acts on men (a nut-hugger, which I believe would involve taking hold of their testicles with my hand). In other words, you chucked a rock at me, so I picked it up and chucked it back. I've got a good arm and I don't mind putting it to use chucking rocks, but there is, of course, another way. There is, of course, respectful discourse.

You decide. 

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1
mxtech1
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1968
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7/21/2011
Location
Galesburg, IL, USA
1/19/2024 9:13am

Be honest.....did you use AI to create this story? 

1/19/2024 9:32am

Diet consultant might help if you’re shitting out 200lb dudes. 

Silas444 wrote:
It's probably the first thing I'll have to cut out. Won't be easy. SilentAsassin, you and I got off on very poor footing, but you, like...

It's probably the first thing I'll have to cut out. Won't be easy.

SilentAsassin, you and I got off on very poor footing, but you, like me, are a Mainah, and I love my fellow Mainahs. So let me say this: if you post an cogent argument refuting something I've written, I promise to respond in-kind. Your first posts involved questioning my mental health and stability and also insinuated that I was someone inclined toward performing sexual acts on men (a nut-hugger, which I believe would involve taking hold of their testicles with my hand). In other words, you chucked a rock at me, so I picked it up and chucked it back. I've got a good arm and I don't mind putting it to use chucking rocks, but there is, of course, another way. There is, of course, respectful discourse.

You decide. 

I made a simple post stating that Stark had a chance of failing as a start up if their burn rate was faster than cash flow coming in from either sales or investors. I didn’t say they would, nor did I say I did not have faith in electric offroad bikes. It was real talk. Nothing more. 

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