I posted this on thumpertalk and didn’t get much feedback, hoping someone here will have some input.
I picked up some used cone valves and am in the process of trying to get them setup for mx (Glen Helen mostly)
it’s a pain because I’m in the desert so I can’t really test a mx setup unless I make the 1.5 hour drive.
this is my current setup
.49 springs (210 lbs no gear)
445cc wp oil
16nm pressure springs
50m/nm cone springs
red cone
zero float/preload (although it’s tough to get an accurate measurement for that)
BV
26x.1 (6)
16x.1
25x.1
24x.15 (.15s down to 14OD)
22
20
18
16
14
12x.25
rebound
delta (3)
12x.1
delta
16x.1
14x.1
12x.1
10x.3
16x.25
10x.3 (2)
my previous setup was identical, but I had .1mm float on the cone. Hold up was nice, feel was good until I charged just a little harder on the medium sized braking bumps. I played with rebound and compression clickers and couldn’t make it feel any better. I’m hoping that .1 float was making it harsh.
after going to zero float I did a quick test ride in the desert and it almost seemed the forks felt a little more plush. I’m hoping that’s a sign my mv was too soft and now is holding up better. I’m going to try them at GH next week and see where I’m at, if they are still harsh on the braking bumps, I’m going to lighten the rebound stack so I can run the clickers in a little more to help make the mv more firm. Does that seem like I’m going in the right direction?
How many clicks preload on the main spring?
Is 488mm spring length zero preload like the old cc forks? Springs are 487mm with 4 clicks, which should be 1mm preload
I don’t don’t many details about the inner tuning of these forks, but does the oil level seem high? You could have too much and making the fork ramp up too much making you think that it’s mid valve.
Also when you say it’s bad on medium bumps or braking bumps. Do you think it’s the first touch of a square bump or multi bumps in succession and it gets worse?
What bike are they on?
Should be, im almost certain 488.
I think you need heavier springs. What are you running in rear, 42nm towards the 4.8nm? Standard is 5.0 for 450.
From what i have gathered, for 450, 175lbs riders are running like 5.1 on CV with 42 and 45 rear. So my guess is you are to light on springs, have some unbalance. Go up on springs, drop some oil and run 2 click preload as starting point.
Most likely you need at least 5.1, maybe 5.2 front, 4.8 rear. Maybe 4.5 rear.
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The forks came with 400cc and bottomed out on every jump on the cahuilla vet track no matter how I landed, upped it to 430cc and closed up the mv to the previous +- .1mm float and they were better, but still too soft in the bottom part of the stroke. Now with 445cc, I haven’t bottomed them and still had 1-1.5” of travel after riding the GH main. I feel like the progression of the dampening feels pretty good, even could call it plush which isn’t how I expected them to feel. I’ve always read they will feel stiff/harsh until you really start pushing them, and I’m sort of getting opposite feedback.
They seem to get harsh at speed when there are multiple braking bumps, I was thinking they were possibly packing, but went both directions on rebound and going in 2 clicks vs out 2 clicks had the best feel. The bike is a 23 350sxf
I could try some heavier springs. Rear is a .49 (5.0kg) and sag numbers are 36/106-107.
the .49 fork springs were recommended by wp dealer/tuner. The new chassis is supposed to respond well to riding higher in the stroke on the front end from what I’ve been told. With the current setup, stability is amazing with no head shake
I don't have any experience with the cone valves, but that spring combo sounds unbalanced to me, like you're loading the front a little to much. 5.0 on rear sounds about right for your weight, but the .49's on the front sound a little too light to pair with that rear spring. Like aees said, sounds like you might be compensating for too light of a spring with too much oil.
36 static is to little for that bike, only works on very smooth hard packed tracks. OEM shock? Most is 40mm on Trax/Xact Pro, 38 on WP OEM. 36 is just not enough on austrian bikes.
I may end up picking up a .52 rear spring and see how that helps, powerband recommended .48s for the front, but I already had the .49s on the way. I know 445cc seems like a lot, but I was under the impression that was normal for the newest generation cvs. Factory connection seems to use that amount for the new gen cv
Oil level is normal as you say. But you can drop some depending on how much you drop the rear, to maintain balance.
I know pro riders that run 42 and/or 45 rear matched with 5.1 front at 175-180lbs. With your weight, I would not run below 5.1nm in front.
I have some heavier springs on the way (front and rear) and will try 425cc of oil. I appreciate the input guys
If you are ever interested and our timing lines up, I have data acquisition sensors we can mount to your bike. It's a bit complex to set up the rear, but if you wanted to throw it on your fork for some laps we can arrange it. I ride GH often, this is some of the information it records.
That would be amazing Joe. You mind if I send you a message on IG? I go to GH atleast once a week
Yeah, no prob. hit me up whenever.
@CarlinoJoeVideo
https://www.extracross.com/Suspension/WP-original-parts/wp-pro-componen…
Go to the technical documents and there will be a setting list for your bike which has the spring for each weight. Remember KTM springs are measured in nm not .kg/m
for your 350 for 210 lbs is only just in the 5.0nm spring range. ( different rates for the US market for some reason)
445 is for sure to much oil then if running US valving and setup.
I would go stiffer springs, less oil. Both of that will give you a much plusher first contact with braking bumps
I ordered some 5.2 fork springs so i could potentially run only one and have a 5.0ish rate at some point. I’ve been looking for those setup sheets for a few weeks now, so I appreciate that.
side note, I can’t seem to find a online us store to order cv parts from. Extracross seems extremely good
Powerband Racing is a great source for parts. I know they were selling 52mm CV parts for a bit.
Pit Row
Anyone know where to get one of those setup sheets for the older (all black) CV's?
@CarlinoJoeVideo that system looks really cool! Have you had success with taking data and making clicker/valving changes? I don't want to hijack, but hopefully the OP can meet up with you and report back on any data he gets from it?
(Not trying to hijack either, but here’s some info on the data acquisition tools)
Yeah I have a sensor kit for my downhill mountain bike. They are much more common in that world. Also a lot easier to install on the bike.
I’ve been using that kit for almost a year. Lots and lots of days riding and looking at data on the chairlift, make adjustments then read data again. I’m pretty confident in data and how to make adjustments for it. The biggest challenge on moto is the addition of the engine. We have torque, squat and engine breaking.
Using the fork only is cool to get some data like average riding position, max travel and shafts speeds, but the program is really all about bike balance and getting the suspension to work together. Here’s a cool piece of data from riding today(second photo), this total movement of the fork and shock comp and rebound, it adds up everything to give you a number. it shows they are compressing and rebounding very similarly. Almost exactly the same from one full lap, total of 58meters! Then The first image was a different bike and longer track, but see how far off the numbers are, 13meters if movement different. Then you dive into see if it’s compression to stiff on one or maybe too slow on one end or too fast, ect, then closer that number is the closer that as moving together as a balanced bike!
That’s very cool Joe 👍
btw hi jack all you guys want, I need all the help I can get
For a point of reference, this is the stock setting from WP.
I would try a 4.8 N/mm set of springs and maybe 400 mL of oil.
Taken from this link:
https://d2akct5dekqm4p.cloudfront.net/84/media/pdf/dok-wp-sl-sl-14152u0…
It’s crazy how much softer that bv is compared to other setup sheets. My mv and all springs are identical to that setup, I bottomed out on any and everything with 400cc of oil, and that’s with my stiffer base valve. I went with advice I got on here and from 2 reputable tuners to go with 5.2s, so I’ll report back next week after making that change
The cone valve setup that came in my set had the blue cones. On my ‘19 450 at the time it wasn’t too soft anywhere really, but had faster rebound than I liked. I didn’t keep that bike long enough to really get a good feel for the setup, and had another tuner revise it for a different bike.
Maybe worth removing the crossover on the BV to make a bigger change to see if that’s the right direction.
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