Student Loan Forgiveness

Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
11/14/2023 3:40pm
skeef wrote:
That isn’t necessarily true. Sure if you want to get into a trade - mechanic, welder, lineman, etc. You can make more from the get go...

That isn’t necessarily true. Sure if you want to get into a trade - mechanic, welder, lineman, etc. You can make more from the get go. But the line of progression or earnings slows significantly compared to a degree holder progression. This is proven, there are stats all over the place. Great you know a couple guys without degrees that made it. But look outside your circle, how many people didn’t? Of course, like you said before, many people with degrees don’t do anything as well. But the number of people who utilize their degrees far out weigh the people who made it with just a GED or diploma. It’s a numbers game, not a “my buddy did this” game. I have the same friends. 
 

Although I agree with you, starting a business based on a skill or trade can be a golden ticket. Let’s say you start an hvac or plumbing business on the west coast. Great, you’re crushing it. But how long till you get demolished by a large corporation? It happens all the time. You can’t make it these days by simply having good customer service and performing solid work. You will be out priced, the cost of leads will kill your margins, you will get crushed. 
 

Also, most people can’t just start a business, it takes capital, just to name one. You can go to a VC who will give you money, but for what? So he can own a majority of your business. Then if it fails he owns you. Unless they write it off as bad debt.
 

Titan1 wrote:
I don't know how you define "made it"?  I define it as being self sufficient (not living off the government), owning a home, and living life...and...

I don't know how you define "made it"?  I define it as being self sufficient (not living off the government), owning a home, and living life...and I know SO many people who have made it without college...I know miners who make nearly 6 figures...oil field rough necks over 6 figures...truck drivers...I can't even count how many real estate agents, loan officers, insurance agents, escrow officers I know that don't have a bachelors degree and that are making well into 6 figures (a few at 7 figures).  The list of people who have "made it", AND, who make more money than many college grads (who apparently don't earn enough to afford their student loan bill) is LOOOOOOOONG! 

Small businesses are the life blood of our economy...don't tell me that its not possible for small businesses to survive.  Small business can, and do, survive for decades and decades (its not a risk free route, but it is a proven and viable route).

It doesn't always take capital to start a business...strategic partnerships, for one...I'm starting a SaaS company right now...I could have paid a software dev company $120K-my lowest bid-to build out my software (which is a lot of capital...and I could have done that)...some might have just thrown in the towel on their business idea and said "whelp, its too hard to start a business and I don't have the capital, life isn't fair...hey government forgive my student loans!"....but instead, I found a software engineer who would build out the software in exchange for 30% of the company...a digital marketing expert, who will market the company online for me in exchange for 15% of the company...and I kept the rest of the equity.  Time will tell if this company turns out to be a success or not (we are still a young company), but so far its looking awesome!  If it is a success giving up that 45% equity, will be expensive (far more expensive than just paying someone $120K and keeping all the equity)...but...it drastically reduced my front end risk (no skin in the game) so it was a trade I was willing to make. I see deals like this happening ALL THE TIME...no college degree required.

Bottom line, where there is a will, there is a way...worth ethic, ingenuity, creativity, and determination are far more indicative of success than an over-priced piece of paper to hang on the wall.  

If someone wants to be a doctor, or attorney, or engineer, or many other things that absolutely need a college degree, then get a college degree...but for the near 60% of students who don't use, or don't complete their degree...society needs to stop pressuring them to go to college, and start telling them they can be successful without college...this will reduce the cost of college tuition for the rest of us (as enrollment rates would drop).      

skeef wrote:
Your situation and someone else that is in their young twenties today is completely different. Your life perspective is based on the hard work you’ve put...

Your situation and someone else that is in their young twenties today is completely different. Your life perspective is based on the hard work you’ve put in to own your house or have a ‘disposable’ income (how you define “made it”.) But this world is different today. I know you hate hearing it, but it’s not the same as when you were 20. Kids can’t go buy a house for a pack of gum and $100. I make twice as much money as both my parents did at my age. How come I don’t have a boat, a trailer, horses, etc like they did? I’m no slouch by the way, I do pretty well for someone in their 20’s. Not to mention, you’re experienced, you have way more wisdom, you’re in a good financial spot to start a business. You’ve learned this craft for what 20+ years? Could you do what you’re doing now, if you were in your 20’s today? This conversation is speculative, I’m not vouching for every kid to get a degree.

I have a business degree. It’s worthless. I’m in computational science now. I didn’t need to go to school, I could have self taught myself everything and probably have way more knowledge than I do now. But I would not have gotten my first job out of college without my degree. It’s just the truth. And that’s a societal problem. I agree. 

In my 20's I felt much the same about my parents, as 20 year olds today feel about theirs...my parents paid $60K for their house-1900 sq ft, 5 bed 2 bath home-(which they still own) in 1986...My first house was $195K-1750 sq ft 3 bed 2 bath- in 2005...20 year olds buying their first home today (in my market) would probably be paying about $450K (for a newer 1600ish sq ft 3 bed 2 bath home).  

I felt I had it way harder than my parents...how could I afford my first home when homes cost 3X as much as my parents had to pay? Wages aren't 3x's higher...I remember my parents wondering how their kids would ever afford a home.  And I hear my friends today making the same statements about their children. So in response to the "20 year olds these days have it so much harder than I did...you just don't get it...its not the same...blah blah blah"...I simply say...NOT TRUE!  Every generation feels they have it harder than the generation before. 

My generation figured it out...and this generation will figure it out.  The doom and gloom from millennials and Gen Z'ers is the same doom and gloom that gen X'ers felt...its not unique. 

As far as my current situation....I have ZERO experience in the saas world...none...I had an idea...In talking with some friends with experience in the saas world, they felt it might be marketable...so I dug into it further, realized I had a potential solution for a niche in the market.  I'm learning as I go...as far as an initial investment from me or my two partners, we are less than $500...for the domain, server hosting, and merchant services.

I see no reason a 20 year old couldn't look at the world around him/her, look at their own life...notice some issues/problems they see...figure out a solution to that issue/problem...find strategic partners and start a business?  Why couldn't a 20 year old today do that?  

I started my career as a mortgage loan officer (my full time day job) at 22 years old...with no experience at all (I didn't even know what a mortgage was...except on the back of the monopoly cards)...and I literally learned the business on the job...I'm still doing it.  I have no earning cap...my earning is literally determined by my own work ethic and hustle.  Could I do it again if I started today?  Absolutely I could.   No reason a hard working 20 year old couldn't do the same.

My point is that I'm not exceptional in anyway, nor unique.  And I figure things out.  I can't handle it when so many people look at the world around them and are confronted with challenges, rather than look inward and figure it out, they get on their knees in front of the government and beg them for help... 

5
Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
11/14/2023 3:56pm
Titan1 wrote:
In my 20's I felt much the same about my parents, as 20 year olds today feel about theirs...my parents paid $60K for their house-1900 sq...

In my 20's I felt much the same about my parents, as 20 year olds today feel about theirs...my parents paid $60K for their house-1900 sq ft, 5 bed 2 bath home-(which they still own) in 1986...My first house was $195K-1750 sq ft 3 bed 2 bath- in 2005...20 year olds buying their first home today (in my market) would probably be paying about $450K (for a newer 1600ish sq ft 3 bed 2 bath home).  

I felt I had it way harder than my parents...how could I afford my first home when homes cost 3X as much as my parents had to pay? Wages aren't 3x's higher...I remember my parents wondering how their kids would ever afford a home.  And I hear my friends today making the same statements about their children. So in response to the "20 year olds these days have it so much harder than I did...you just don't get it...its not the same...blah blah blah"...I simply say...NOT TRUE!  Every generation feels they have it harder than the generation before. 

My generation figured it out...and this generation will figure it out.  The doom and gloom from millennials and Gen Z'ers is the same doom and gloom that gen X'ers felt...its not unique. 

As far as my current situation....I have ZERO experience in the saas world...none...I had an idea...In talking with some friends with experience in the saas world, they felt it might be marketable...so I dug into it further, realized I had a potential solution for a niche in the market.  I'm learning as I go...as far as an initial investment from me or my two partners, we are less than $500...for the domain, server hosting, and merchant services.

I see no reason a 20 year old couldn't look at the world around him/her, look at their own life...notice some issues/problems they see...figure out a solution to that issue/problem...find strategic partners and start a business?  Why couldn't a 20 year old today do that?  

I started my career as a mortgage loan officer (my full time day job) at 22 years old...with no experience at all (I didn't even know what a mortgage was...except on the back of the monopoly cards)...and I literally learned the business on the job...I'm still doing it.  I have no earning cap...my earning is literally determined by my own work ethic and hustle.  Could I do it again if I started today?  Absolutely I could.   No reason a hard working 20 year old couldn't do the same.

My point is that I'm not exceptional in anyway, nor unique.  And I figure things out.  I can't handle it when so many people look at the world around them and are confronted with challenges, rather than look inward and figure it out, they get on their knees in front of the government and beg them for help... 

I got one for you, I know a guy who worked as a Ford Service manager, he didn’t complete college or even have an associates. The dude gets paralyzed, had a house, truck, you name it. He had to sell everything and now he trades stocks for a living. He learned it while being in and out of the hospital all of the time. 

plowboy
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Norwich, KS, USA
11/14/2023 4:53pm
Shit like this is why homeschooling is on the rise. They added a lot of section 8 housing to my town, which is one of many...

Shit like this is why homeschooling is on the rise. They added a lot of section 8 housing to my town, which is one of many reasons why my kids are homeschooled. I don't want my kids around trash.

plowboy wrote:
Poor doesn't always mean trash.  But, I do fully understand where you're at.  I don't have a good answer.  We homeschooled our kids for several years. ...

Poor doesn't always mean trash.  But, I do fully understand where you're at.  I don't have a good answer.  We homeschooled our kids for several years.  It is very time/brain consuming.  They all re-entered public school 2 grade levels above age level but it was a LOT of work.  Teachers= respect.

I agree. I grew up poor. I'd be willing to bet the #1 reason for people living on section 8 is lack of a complete family...

I agree. I grew up poor. I'd be willing to bet the #1 reason for people living on section 8 is lack of a complete family unit, and problems spawn from there.

You got that right.  Family ain't what it once was.

2
Darrin Willis
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Red Deer County, AB, CA
11/14/2023 11:23pm

Food for thought. I own and operate a small construction company. My wife is a self employed web designer. We are high school graduates . No college. We do very well . Our 15 year old son will be going to university. If for some reason he doesn't we will be very disappointed.  

The Shop

Titan1
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11/15/2023 9:10am
plowboy wrote:
Poor doesn't always mean trash.  But, I do fully understand where you're at.  I don't have a good answer.  We homeschooled our kids for several years. ...

Poor doesn't always mean trash.  But, I do fully understand where you're at.  I don't have a good answer.  We homeschooled our kids for several years.  It is very time/brain consuming.  They all re-entered public school 2 grade levels above age level but it was a LOT of work.  Teachers= respect.

I agree. I grew up poor. I'd be willing to bet the #1 reason for people living on section 8 is lack of a complete family...

I agree. I grew up poor. I'd be willing to bet the #1 reason for people living on section 8 is lack of a complete family unit, and problems spawn from there.

plowboy wrote:

You got that right.  Family ain't what it once was.

The lack of complete family units is to blame for most of the issues in this country.  No doubt about that.  The segments of our society with the largest issues (poverty, crime, etc.) are the same segments with the highest number of incomplete family units.  It's not a coincidence.

The liberals (in colleges, Hollywood, media, and government) keep trying to degrade the family even further...by blurring genders, discarding the value of marriage, attacking fathers (masculinity), sexualizing children (and that is what is called when you are having conversations about sexuality/gender with prepubescent children...those are adult topics that should wait to be had until they are adults).

The family is the most basic unit of our society...strong families mean strong neighborhoods, strong neighborhoods strong cities, strong cities strong counties, strong counties strong states, strong states strong country.    Those that hate America don't have to wage war on America to destroy it...they only have to destroy the family to be successful...and they've got an unwitting ally in their fight: the radical left wingers right here in America. 

15
2
Shiftfaced
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Ruby Ridge, ID, USA
11/20/2023 7:55pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2023 7:59pm

Is Student Loan Forgiveness more communist than the Paycheck Protection Program loans (that were forgiven)?

How far out did you extend your hand?

OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
11/20/2023 8:27pm
Shiftfaced wrote:

Is Student Loan Forgiveness more communist than the Paycheck Protection Program loans (that were forgiven)?

How far out did you extend your hand?

Mine stayed in my pocket...thank you.

2
Titan1
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11/20/2023 8:50pm
Shiftfaced wrote:

Is Student Loan Forgiveness more communist than the Paycheck Protection Program loans (that were forgiven)?

How far out did you extend your hand?

They are equal…both are ridiculous and wrong.

Shiftfaced
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11/21/2023 4:59am

I just think it is sad that kids today are handed debt and environmental change; nothing but service jobs, and no idea of what form of “work” their future holds (that cannot be cannibalized by Amazon), and this Tribe of Hate wants to kick those kids when they don’t have a toe-hold to stand on.

 

I am glad that I am 52, not 25.

 

3
Titan1
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11/21/2023 8:04am
Shiftfaced wrote:
I just think it is sad that kids today are handed debt and environmental change; nothing but service jobs, and no idea of what form of...

I just think it is sad that kids today are handed debt and environmental change; nothing but service jobs, and no idea of what form of “work” their future holds (that cannot be cannibalized by Amazon), and this Tribe of Hate wants to kick those kids when they don’t have a toe-hold to stand on.

 

I am glad that I am 52, not 25.

 

They aren’t handed debt, they knowingly take it upon themselves.
 

They’ve been brainwashed by society that college is a “must do” for a good life/job…ignoring the fact that so many of these college grads can’t even get a good enough job to make their student loan payments, which ought to be enough evidence for any and all to see that the college path is broken.  So why keep following it? (I’ve got my own ideas about why it’s broken…) It’s obviously not a good investment…time to start looking at colleges to justify their ridiculous tuition rates…and time to start looking at student loan lenders and ask why they aren’t making risk based lending decisions…and time to get the federal government out of the student loan guarantee business (which will put more risk on the lenders so they will be forced to make more realistic lending decisions).

6
11/21/2023 8:58am
Shiftfaced wrote:

Is Student Loan Forgiveness more communist than the Paycheck Protection Program loans (that were forgiven)?

How far out did you extend your hand?

Interestingly, the government made businesses close down. And it may have not been your business that closed down but the next business over that affected your business. It was not their choice. People seem to think just because something is labeled a business, they have all kinds of free money. So if, you were able to keep employees, yes they gave you some money. The alternative would have been to pay that same money to an unemployed person that would have had NO JOB to go back to. So NOT apples to apples.

11/21/2023 9:02am

Years ago, when you asked a kid what they aspired to be. They might have said a fireman, an engineer, a teacher, a doctor.

In today's world, surveys have shown the number 1 answer to that question is to be "an influencer". Yes someone that rakes in the money for posting things showing they are having a good time. It's very much less common that people aspire to actually "work" to make money.

8
AlanyaRose
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Prinsburg, MN, USA
11/22/2023 7:37am Edited Date/Time 11/27/2023 8:52am

On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the constant financial weight. On the flip side, there's the worry that this approach might not be the magic fix, potentially creating unintended consequences. Personally, I lean towards targeted forgiveness programs, tailored to specific needs and demographics. In addition, I strongly believe that increasing awareness among students is crucial in navigating the complexities of student loans. As a student, I made a conscious effort to pay off all my loans on time. Whenever I needed expert help in managing my loans, I turned to a Mortgage Broker in Northampton. Their guidance proved invaluable in steering clear of debts and financial pitfalls.

1
Gworm
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11/22/2023 8:52am
AlanyaRose wrote:
On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the...

On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the constant financial weight. On the flip side, there's the worry that this approach might not be the magic fix, potentially creating unintended consequences. Personally, I lean towards targeted forgiveness programs, tailored to specific needs and demographics. In addition, I strongly believe that increasing awareness among students is crucial in navigating the complexities of student loans. As a student, I made a conscious effort to pay off all my loans on time. Whenever I needed expert help in managing my loans, I turned to a Mortgage Broker in Northampton. Their guidance proved invaluable in steering clear of debts and financial pitfalls.

Uhmm… as has been said in here before, it’s not forgiveness, it’s making others pay your debt. 
 

If the colleges, who are overpricing their services and swimming in money, wants to forgive the debt themselves, I think most would be ok with that. 

5
11/22/2023 9:58am
AlanyaRose wrote:
On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the...

On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the constant financial weight. On the flip side, there's the worry that this approach might not be the magic fix, potentially creating unintended consequences. Personally, I lean towards targeted forgiveness programs, tailored to specific needs and demographics. In addition, I strongly believe that increasing awareness among students is crucial in navigating the complexities of student loans. As a student, I made a conscious effort to pay off all my loans on time. Whenever I needed expert help in managing my loans, I turned to a Mortgage Broker in Northampton. Their guidance proved invaluable in steering clear of debts and financial pitfalls.

That little kitty in your avatar has 4 hands, so on hand #3 Let's make everyone's life more miserable and have them pay for the debt you agreed to pay back if you could use it to get an education. And on hand #4, YOU were supposed to use that money to get an education that would make you VALUABLE to a company to pay you ENOUGH money to PAY BACK those funds. AND if you didn't get what you paid for from the institution, you should sue THE INSTITUTION for your money back because they did not provide you the valuable product (your education) you paid them for and then you can use that money to PAY BACK your loan.

Let's go with #4

4
Spoonguy
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Mc Kean, PA, USA
11/22/2023 1:34pm
AlanyaRose wrote:
On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the...

On the one hand, student loan forgiveness can be a lifeline for individuals drowning in debt, offering a chance to breathe and pursue dreams without the constant financial weight. On the flip side, there's the worry that this approach might not be the magic fix, potentially creating unintended consequences. Personally, I lean towards targeted forgiveness programs, tailored to specific needs and demographics. In addition, I strongly believe that increasing awareness among students is crucial in navigating the complexities of student loans. As a student, I made a conscious effort to pay off all my loans on time. Whenever I needed expert help in managing my loans, I turned to a Mortgage Broker in Northampton. Their guidance proved invaluable in steering clear of debts and financial pitfalls.

Actually it is not forgiveness but a transfer of debt to others. As far as pursuing dreams, one must assume a college education must have been a dream pursued at one time, at least until the bill came. Will someone else pay for the next dream pursued as well?

3

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