Let's compare perfect seasons to this season

TDeath21
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7/25/2023 9:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/25/2023 9:37pm

The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up at the perfect time. If we are trying to compare who had the toughest competition, I’d rank it like this:

04, 02, 23, 08.

And we don’t count it because he lost 2 motos but RC went perfect overall wise in 05 I’d slot that one in behind 04. 

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BobbyMyers
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7/25/2023 10:04pm
ElliotB16 wrote:

Don’t overthink it. They’re all impressive 

And this one is incomparable. 

1
mx313
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7/25/2023 11:07pm
TDeath21 wrote:
The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up...

The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up at the perfect time. If we are trying to compare who had the toughest competition, I’d rank it like this:

04, 02, 23, 08.

And we don’t count it because he lost 2 motos but RC went perfect overall wise in 05 I’d slot that one in behind 04. 

But something like 6 of the top 8 were not there last season. Who Is to say they wouldn't have been top 7 last season? You make it sound like every rider was there last season. And the top 7 a removed this season.

Guys like ferrandis and ac were not there. And last I checked their previous season they beat both tomac and sexton.

 

mx313
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7/25/2023 11:12pm
Park Boys wrote:
To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week...

To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week or two on the bike. After winning Rd.2 of SX he went under the knife. RC had a bit more time I believe in 04 then Stew in 08.
 

Again this is not to belittle Jett but I haven’t seen the blown knee thing written any where in all this perfect season talk. 
 

Butt Jett 19, RC 22 and 24 and Stew was 22 as well. 

This comment makes me think about guys like ferrandis, sexton etc. If they both came back from injury to go perfect. Then those guys have no excuses about returning from injury. Ferrandis crashed at daytona on something like march 5 that is over 20 weeks ago. 

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ando
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7/26/2023 12:02am
TDeath21 wrote:
The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up...

The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up at the perfect time. If we are trying to compare who had the toughest competition, I’d rank it like this:

04, 02, 23, 08.

And we don’t count it because he lost 2 motos but RC went perfect overall wise in 05 I’d slot that one in behind 04. 

2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute behind RC, and in quite a few instances even third place was a minute or more behind.

The only ones who kept RC honest, or even vaguely close, were Reed and occasionally Windham.  Reed got 16 x 2nd, and 6 x 3rd place finishes; Windham got 7 x 2nd and 9 x 3rd place finishes.  The only other guys to finish on the podium were Tortelli (2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd), Vuillemin (1 x 2nd, 4 x 3rd) and Fonseca (1 x 3rd).

2023 is shaping up the same way - Sexton has taken the bulk of 2nd's, Ferrandis the bulk of 3rds, with the remaining scattered amongst a few others - Ken, Webb, and AP.  Gaps to 3rd and beyond are similar.

3
Cortami79
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7/26/2023 1:55am

Weak field.. but Ferrandis, Plessinger, AC, Webb are all former outdoors champions. Sexton multiple AMA champion. What Jett is doing is just really impressive.

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TDeath21
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7/26/2023 6:20am
TDeath21 wrote:
The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up...

The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up at the perfect time. If we are trying to compare who had the toughest competition, I’d rank it like this:

04, 02, 23, 08.

And we don’t count it because he lost 2 motos but RC went perfect overall wise in 05 I’d slot that one in behind 04. 

ando wrote:
2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute...

2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute behind RC, and in quite a few instances even third place was a minute or more behind.

The only ones who kept RC honest, or even vaguely close, were Reed and occasionally Windham.  Reed got 16 x 2nd, and 6 x 3rd place finishes; Windham got 7 x 2nd and 9 x 3rd place finishes.  The only other guys to finish on the podium were Tortelli (2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd), Vuillemin (1 x 2nd, 4 x 3rd) and Fonseca (1 x 3rd).

2023 is shaping up the same way - Sexton has taken the bulk of 2nd's, Ferrandis the bulk of 3rds, with the remaining scattered amongst a few others - Ken, Webb, and AP.  Gaps to 3rd and beyond are similar.

04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well ahead of him. That was prime Reed, and we can kinda use him as a measuring stick with how tough he battled the Ryans in 2011, well past his prime. Going undefeated against Windham and Reed that year, two all time greats arguably both at their best, was incredible in every way, even more so coming off the knee injury.

You don’t wanna take anything away from anyone because going undefeated against any field is insane and incredible. Objectively, Cody Cooper is not remotely close to a top guy, and he was Stewart’s closest challenge to winning a moto in 08. That’s telling. This year’s field is also completely depleted. You’re splitting hairs for sure at this point, but that’s what you have to do when you bench race. One could argue Villopoto’s 2013 season against the competition he was facing is more impressive than Stewart in 08 or Jett this year. 

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motomike137
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7/26/2023 7:24am

It's simple really. Jett is every bit as impressive if not more than RC and JS were when they did it. Sexton even with his problems is a far more formidable foe than anyone I can think of that James or Ricky faced. Hell Jett had led every damn lap up until last Saturday, We may be seeing what we thought we wouldn't ever see and that's another guy a complete step above everyone else like MC, RC and James or Everts even. I am both thrilled and frightened because Jett may bring even more light to the sport worldwide but if he goes on to dominate it will get a little frustrating to watch.

Titan1
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7/26/2023 7:57am

How many privateers were in the top 10 in 02, 04 and 08?  How many this year?  Aren’t half the top 10 in points this year privateers?  To me that speaks to a very weak field…I rank 23-assuming it happens-as the weakest of the perfect seasons in terms of competition…but among the most impressive because Jett is doing it his first year on a 450 and is still a teenager.

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Chris_Buehler
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7/26/2023 8:10am
decano51 wrote:
now take in consideration the age of the riders when they had their perfect seasons and how long they have been in the class to achieve...

now take in consideration the age of the riders when they had their perfect seasons and how long they have been in the class to achieve such..

Park Boys wrote:
To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week...

To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week or two on the bike. After winning Rd.2 of SX he went under the knife. RC had a bit more time I believe in 04 then Stew in 08.
 

Again this is not to belittle Jett but I haven’t seen the blown knee thing written any where in all this perfect season talk. 
 

Butt Jett 19, RC 22 and 24 and Stew was 22 as well. 

Stew wad just 22 in '08? Man you go back to then, and after he was so good on the Yamaha in '09 sx, and you thought he was going to win everything for the foreseeable future

RCMartin406
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7/26/2023 8:24am
decano51 wrote:
now take in consideration the age of the riders when they had their perfect seasons and how long they have been in the class to achieve...

now take in consideration the age of the riders when they had their perfect seasons and how long they have been in the class to achieve such..

Park Boys wrote:
To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week...

To be fair, RC in 04 and Stew in 08 we’re coming off of blown out knees. I want to saw Stew only had a week or two on the bike. After winning Rd.2 of SX he went under the knife. RC had a bit more time I believe in 04 then Stew in 08.
 

Again this is not to belittle Jett but I haven’t seen the blown knee thing written any where in all this perfect season talk. 
 

Butt Jett 19, RC 22 and 24 and Stew was 22 as well. 

Stew wad just 22 in '08? Man you go back to then, and after he was so good on the Yamaha in '09 sx, and you...

Stew wad just 22 in '08? Man you go back to then, and after he was so good on the Yamaha in '09 sx, and you thought he was going to win everything for the foreseeable future

Yep, that 2010 Yamaha fu**ed him up, and getting landed on and breaking his wrist at rd 2 of SX didn’t help either. That was the same injury that ended RJs career.

ando
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7/26/2023 6:13pm
TDeath21 wrote:
04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well...

04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well ahead of him. That was prime Reed, and we can kinda use him as a measuring stick with how tough he battled the Ryans in 2011, well past his prime. Going undefeated against Windham and Reed that year, two all time greats arguably both at their best, was incredible in every way, even more so coming off the knee injury.

You don’t wanna take anything away from anyone because going undefeated against any field is insane and incredible. Objectively, Cody Cooper is not remotely close to a top guy, and he was Stewart’s closest challenge to winning a moto in 08. That’s telling. This year’s field is also completely depleted. You’re splitting hairs for sure at this point, but that’s what you have to do when you bench race. One could argue Villopoto’s 2013 season against the competition he was facing is more impressive than Stewart in 08 or Jett this year. 

I was pretty devastated when Reed had the big getoff at Millville in 2011.  He had both the Ryan's covered that year until then.  He was a much better outdoors guy than many people realise.  He's got an MXdN moto win, and won the GP in Lierop of all places back in 2001.

I said it earlier - any perfect season is amazing not only for the rider's performance, but the fact that it requires a whole season with no bad starts, no unlucky crashes or tip overs, no mechanicals, and no injuries.

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Chris_Buehler
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7/26/2023 7:19pm
TDeath21 wrote:
The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up...

The top 7 riders from last year are either out, missed a ton of time, or are injured but riding through it. Jett did move up at the perfect time. If we are trying to compare who had the toughest competition, I’d rank it like this:

04, 02, 23, 08.

And we don’t count it because he lost 2 motos but RC went perfect overall wise in 05 I’d slot that one in behind 04. 

ando wrote:
2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute...

2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute behind RC, and in quite a few instances even third place was a minute or more behind.

The only ones who kept RC honest, or even vaguely close, were Reed and occasionally Windham.  Reed got 16 x 2nd, and 6 x 3rd place finishes; Windham got 7 x 2nd and 9 x 3rd place finishes.  The only other guys to finish on the podium were Tortelli (2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd), Vuillemin (1 x 2nd, 4 x 3rd) and Fonseca (1 x 3rd).

2023 is shaping up the same way - Sexton has taken the bulk of 2nd's, Ferrandis the bulk of 3rds, with the remaining scattered amongst a few others - Ken, Webb, and AP.  Gaps to 3rd and beyond are similar.

TDeath21 wrote:
04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well...

04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well ahead of him. That was prime Reed, and we can kinda use him as a measuring stick with how tough he battled the Ryans in 2011, well past his prime. Going undefeated against Windham and Reed that year, two all time greats arguably both at their best, was incredible in every way, even more so coming off the knee injury.

You don’t wanna take anything away from anyone because going undefeated against any field is insane and incredible. Objectively, Cody Cooper is not remotely close to a top guy, and he was Stewart’s closest challenge to winning a moto in 08. That’s telling. This year’s field is also completely depleted. You’re splitting hairs for sure at this point, but that’s what you have to do when you bench race. One could argue Villopoto’s 2013 season against the competition he was facing is more impressive than Stewart in 08 or Jett this year. 

Up until getting turned into a speed bump at Red Bud '08,  Alessi was phenomenal. He was 15sec up on 3rd at least. He was no push over. Stewart was just that good.  He was the fastest guy in '09 and , in my opinion, would have won that title if he stayed healthy.  

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1
TDeath21
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7/26/2023 11:47pm
ando wrote:
2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute...

2004 is interesting.  If you go back and look at the individual races, you'll see that in almost every moto, 4th place was over a minute behind RC, and in quite a few instances even third place was a minute or more behind.

The only ones who kept RC honest, or even vaguely close, were Reed and occasionally Windham.  Reed got 16 x 2nd, and 6 x 3rd place finishes; Windham got 7 x 2nd and 9 x 3rd place finishes.  The only other guys to finish on the podium were Tortelli (2 x 2nd, 2 x 3rd), Vuillemin (1 x 2nd, 4 x 3rd) and Fonseca (1 x 3rd).

2023 is shaping up the same way - Sexton has taken the bulk of 2nd's, Ferrandis the bulk of 3rds, with the remaining scattered amongst a few others - Ken, Webb, and AP.  Gaps to 3rd and beyond are similar.

TDeath21 wrote:
04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well...

04 Reed was so amazing and nobody talks about it. 2-2 in so many motos well ahead of all time great Windham, but RC was well ahead of him. That was prime Reed, and we can kinda use him as a measuring stick with how tough he battled the Ryans in 2011, well past his prime. Going undefeated against Windham and Reed that year, two all time greats arguably both at their best, was incredible in every way, even more so coming off the knee injury.

You don’t wanna take anything away from anyone because going undefeated against any field is insane and incredible. Objectively, Cody Cooper is not remotely close to a top guy, and he was Stewart’s closest challenge to winning a moto in 08. That’s telling. This year’s field is also completely depleted. You’re splitting hairs for sure at this point, but that’s what you have to do when you bench race. One could argue Villopoto’s 2013 season against the competition he was facing is more impressive than Stewart in 08 or Jett this year. 

Up until getting turned into a speed bump at Red Bud '08,  Alessi was phenomenal. He was 15sec up on 3rd at least. He was no...

Up until getting turned into a speed bump at Red Bud '08,  Alessi was phenomenal. He was 15sec up on 3rd at least. He was no push over. Stewart was just that good.  He was the fastest guy in '09 and , in my opinion, would have won that title if he stayed healthy.  

Stewart going SX only right in his prime coming off an undefeated season truly is one of the more baffling decisions in our sport’s history. He never won another championship after going SX only, as he technically wasn’t SX only yet until he skipped 09 MX.

1
Park Boys
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7/27/2023 6:46am
TDeath21 wrote:
Stewart going SX only right in his prime coming off an undefeated season truly is one of the more baffling decisions in our sport’s history. He...

Stewart going SX only right in his prime coming off an undefeated season truly is one of the more baffling decisions in our sport’s history. He never won another championship after going SX only, as he technically wasn’t SX only yet until he skipped 09 MX.

His decision to quit racing motocross when he was the fastest motocross rider in the world was without a doubt the dumbest single move in our sport’s history. Without a incident that would have been another perfect season. 

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