Grammar with Falcon

SEEMEFIRST
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1/27/2023 9:21pm
Falcon wrote:
That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other...

That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other is a transitive verb showing possession.

Somewhere on here there's a longer quote which also is grammatically correct: 'Had had had had," or something like that. It's worth looking up if you're interested. I can't remember the context in which it works, but it's correct. 

ToolMaker wrote:
So props to you for enlightening us illiterates. You obviously know more than the average bear. So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be...

So props to you for enlightening us illiterates.

You obviously know more than the average bear.

So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be just one had? What does adding a second had do for the sentence? If you use only one had it makes more sense although people often use had had, that that.....

So while acceptable, is it more correct to use just one?

ToolMaker wrote:

My grammar natzi tells me I am wrong. There are situations were it is more correct to have 2 hads. 

TM

More hads is probably better than less hads.

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Falcon
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1/29/2023 10:21am

Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never use an apostrophe to make something plural. (See one of my first posts in this thread.)

For me, writing "MBOs" or "RBIs" and using capitals to denote the acronym while using lowercase to denote the plural is elegant and perfect. Also, I would write, "three consecutive sixes." 😎 

Falcon
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1/29/2023 10:27am
Falcon wrote:
That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other...

That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other is a transitive verb showing possession.

Somewhere on here there's a longer quote which also is grammatically correct: 'Had had had had," or something like that. It's worth looking up if you're interested. I can't remember the context in which it works, but it's correct. 

ToolMaker wrote:
So props to you for enlightening us illiterates. You obviously know more than the average bear. So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be...

So props to you for enlightening us illiterates.

You obviously know more than the average bear.

So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be just one had? What does adding a second had do for the sentence? If you use only one had it makes more sense although people often use had had, that that.....

So while acceptable, is it more correct to use just one?

The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at the Mecum auction and did not feature fork boots at that time. If the author had written only one "had," it is a more general statement, meaning "fork boots will make the bike more valuable." Two "hads" makes the sentence very specific to the value of the bike at the auction on that exact day.

Falcon
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1/29/2023 10:31am
plowboy wrote:
Falcon...I'm not sure where your experience comes from but you're very good.  Have you had any experience at editing for writers.  Proof reading/correction type stuff?  Considering...

Falcon...I'm not sure where your experience comes from but you're very good.  Have you had any experience at editing for writers.  Proof reading/correction type stuff?  Considering zip tying profeshenal to a chair, feeding him a bunch of mushrooms and hash oil.  There's a best seller in there...with the right "red" pen guy.Evil

No, never edited anything. I got my expertise from my parents, both of whom were English teachers. Cool

The Shop

1/29/2023 10:40am
Falcon wrote:
That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other...

That's perfectly acceptable. "Had" is a very versatile word. In your case, one "had" is an auxiliary verb creating the past perfect tense, and the other is a transitive verb showing possession.

Somewhere on here there's a longer quote which also is grammatically correct: 'Had had had had," or something like that. It's worth looking up if you're interested. I can't remember the context in which it works, but it's correct. 

ToolMaker wrote:
So props to you for enlightening us illiterates. You obviously know more than the average bear. So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be...

So props to you for enlightening us illiterates.

You obviously know more than the average bear.

So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be just one had? What does adding a second had do for the sentence? If you use only one had it makes more sense although people often use had had, that that.....

So while acceptable, is it more correct to use just one?

Falcon wrote:
The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at...

The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at the Mecum auction and did not feature fork boots at that time. If the author had written only one "had," it is a more general statement, meaning "fork boots will make the bike more valuable." Two "hads" makes the sentence very specific to the value of the bike at the auction on that exact day.

Yeah, my daughter gave me the same "past-perfect" explanation, I still maintain if you remove one had the conveyance of information is unchanged. In her example she said, someone asking the question "Have you had a cup of coffee?" you might reply

"Yes, I have had a cup of coffee" have, being present, but if you were talking in the past, you might reply "Yes, I had had a cup of coffee" To me, it adds nothing, but I am grammar ignorant, so I'd reply "Yes, I had a cup of coffee"

TM

1/29/2023 10:54am
Falcon wrote:
Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never...

Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never use an apostrophe to make something plural. (See one of my first posts in this thread.)

For me, writing "MBOs" or "RBIs" and using capitals to denote the acronym while using lowercase to denote the plural is elegant and perfect. Also, I would write, "three consecutive sixes." 😎 

Its also correct. 

1/30/2023 6:05am
Falcon wrote:
Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never...

Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never use an apostrophe to make something plural. (See one of my first posts in this thread.)

For me, writing "MBOs" or "RBIs" and using capitals to denote the acronym while using lowercase to denote the plural is elegant and perfect. Also, I would write, "three consecutive sixes." 😎 

Technically those two examples aren't acronyms, they are initializations. An acronym needs to be a pronounceable combination of letters, not just a series of letters.

CARB (California Air Resources Board) is an acronym because it is referred to as CARB, whereas EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) while able to be pronounced, is never referred to as epa, but as e-p-a and is an initialization because it is only referred to by a series of letters.

SEEMEFIRST
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1/30/2023 9:09am

Shouldn't they be RsBI?

Falcon
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1/30/2023 10:56am
Falcon wrote:
Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never...

Speedman, I'm aware of the apostrophe exception for acronyms, but I'm one of the people who is trying to stamp it out, since you should never use an apostrophe to make something plural. (See one of my first posts in this thread.)

For me, writing "MBOs" or "RBIs" and using capitals to denote the acronym while using lowercase to denote the plural is elegant and perfect. Also, I would write, "three consecutive sixes." 😎 

Technically those two examples aren't acronyms, they are initializations. An acronym needs to be a pronounceable combination of letters, not just a series of letters. CARB...

Technically those two examples aren't acronyms, they are initializations. An acronym needs to be a pronounceable combination of letters, not just a series of letters.

CARB (California Air Resources Board) is an acronym because it is referred to as CARB, whereas EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) while able to be pronounced, is never referred to as epa, but as e-p-a and is an initialization because it is only referred to by a series of letters.

Hmm, good call! I had never heard of that, but apparently you are correct. (Although Merriam Webster includes Initialism as a subset of "acronym:" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/acronym

Falcon
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1/30/2023 10:56am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Shouldn't they be RsBI?

Yes, and this drives me crazy!!! Laughing

Falcon
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1/30/2023 11:00am Edited Date/Time 1/30/2023 11:01am

Humorous vs. Humerus.
I saw this one in Jalek Swoll's instagram post (heal up quick, Jalek!)

The Humerus is the bone in our upper arms, connecting the shoulder joint to the elbow. It is sometimes called the "funny bone," because it sounds the same as humorous, which means funny. 

 

Falcon
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1/30/2023 11:08am
ToolMaker wrote:
So props to you for enlightening us illiterates. You obviously know more than the average bear. So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be...

So props to you for enlightening us illiterates.

You obviously know more than the average bear.

So, while had had is acceptable, shouldn't it actually be just one had? What does adding a second had do for the sentence? If you use only one had it makes more sense although people often use had had, that that.....

So while acceptable, is it more correct to use just one?

Falcon wrote:
The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at...

The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at the Mecum auction and did not feature fork boots at that time. If the author had written only one "had," it is a more general statement, meaning "fork boots will make the bike more valuable." Two "hads" makes the sentence very specific to the value of the bike at the auction on that exact day.

ToolMaker wrote:
Yeah, my daughter gave me the same "past-perfect" explanation, I still maintain if you remove one had the conveyance of information is unchanged. In her example...

Yeah, my daughter gave me the same "past-perfect" explanation, I still maintain if you remove one had the conveyance of information is unchanged. In her example she said, someone asking the question "Have you had a cup of coffee?" you might reply

"Yes, I have had a cup of coffee" have, being present, but if you were talking in the past, you might reply "Yes, I had had a cup of coffee" To me, it adds nothing, but I am grammar ignorant, so I'd reply "Yes, I had a cup of coffee"

TM

Let's say coffee makes you incredibly jittery. So much so that you are unable to drive a motor vehicle.

Now, in some sort of deposition before a judge, after you ran down an unsuspecting pedestrian, the meaning of "I had a cup of coffee that day" is very different than "I had had a cup of coffee that day." See what I mean? The first sentence doesn't necessarily imply any kind of guilt, as you might have gone to get a coffee after the accident, whereas the second clearly indicates you drank a cup before the accident and might still be under the influence of its effects. 

Small, but important, degrees of different meanings. 

2/3/2023 11:23am
Falcon wrote:
The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at...

The second (actually first,) "had" places the subject in a specific reference point in time, making the tense past-perfect. In this case, the machine was at the Mecum auction and did not feature fork boots at that time. If the author had written only one "had," it is a more general statement, meaning "fork boots will make the bike more valuable." Two "hads" makes the sentence very specific to the value of the bike at the auction on that exact day.

ToolMaker wrote:
Yeah, my daughter gave me the same "past-perfect" explanation, I still maintain if you remove one had the conveyance of information is unchanged. In her example...

Yeah, my daughter gave me the same "past-perfect" explanation, I still maintain if you remove one had the conveyance of information is unchanged. In her example she said, someone asking the question "Have you had a cup of coffee?" you might reply

"Yes, I have had a cup of coffee" have, being present, but if you were talking in the past, you might reply "Yes, I had had a cup of coffee" To me, it adds nothing, but I am grammar ignorant, so I'd reply "Yes, I had a cup of coffee"

TM

Falcon wrote:
Let's say coffee makes you incredibly jittery. So much so that you are unable to drive a motor vehicle. Now, in some sort of deposition before...

Let's say coffee makes you incredibly jittery. So much so that you are unable to drive a motor vehicle.

Now, in some sort of deposition before a judge, after you ran down an unsuspecting pedestrian, the meaning of "I had a cup of coffee that day" is very different than "I had had a cup of coffee that day." See what I mean? The first sentence doesn't necessarily imply any kind of guilt, as you might have gone to get a coffee after the accident, whereas the second clearly indicates you drank a cup before the accident and might still be under the influence of its effects. 

Small, but important, degrees of different meanings. 

I actually understand what you're trying to explain, I just don't see it. 

"I had had a cup of coffee that day." vs "I had a cup of coffee that day."

To me, neither tells me the time of day you had the cup of coffee. One might think

the "double had" infers the coffee was prior, but unless it's followed by "prior to the event",

to me, both can mean prior or after. I think from a legal stand point, after the fact, a person

could say to either statement, you misunderstood my statement.

But on to another thing, "I need a new pair of shoes" is also acceptable, but, a pair already means

2 shoes. So if you say shoes you're stating more than 1 quantity of 2. BTW, I personally

would say "I need a new pair of shoes"

TM

Falcon
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2/4/2023 4:18pm

Think of the coffee example like this, using "drink" instead of "have:"

"I had drunk a cup of coffee."

"I drank a cup of coffee."

The English language has lots of fine gradations of meaning. This is one of them. 😎

SEEMEFIRST
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2/4/2023 5:20pm

Yeah like.

"She was the prettiest girl I ever saw".

"She was the prettiest girl I have ever seen".

You can't switch the two.

sumdood
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3/16/2023 12:56pm

How do you know when to use squish or squash  ?  If your feet come off the pegs and you smash your huevos on the tank, did you squish your nuts or squash your nuts ?  

Falcon
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3/17/2023 8:35am
sumdood wrote:
How do you know when to use squish or squash  ?  If your feet come off the pegs and you smash your huevos on the tank...

How do you know when to use squish or squash  ?  If your feet come off the pegs and you smash your huevos on the tank, did you squish your nuts or squash your nuts ?  

Laughing Those are interchangeable. 

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sumdood
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5/16/2023 7:50am Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 7:52am

How many words have multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation ? 

Right.  5 different meanings

Turn right at the next street.

This isn't put together right.

Right now i should be working.

He has a right to be here.

He's right across the street.

 

Left. 3 different meanings

Left. Turn left at the next street.

He was left behind.

There's only one spot left. 

 

Orange. 2 different meanings

He's on the orange KTM.

He ate an orange.

 

Can. 3 meanings.

Dogs smell things much better than people can. 

Can you believe this thread is back ?

Should this post go in the trash can ?   

 

I left fuck and shit out because there's too many meanings for those to fit in one post. How many others are there ? 

 

5/16/2023 9:30am
sumdood wrote:
How many words have multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation ?  Right.  5 different meanings Turn right at the next street. This isn't put...

How many words have multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation ? 

Right.  5 different meanings

Turn right at the next street.

This isn't put together right.

Right now i should be working.

He has a right to be here.

He's right across the street.

 

Left. 3 different meanings

Left. Turn left at the next street.

He was left behind.

There's only one spot left. 

 

Orange. 2 different meanings

He's on the orange KTM.

He ate an orange.

 

Can. 3 meanings.

Dogs smell things much better than people can. 

Can you believe this thread is back ?

Should this post go in the trash can ?   

 

I left fuck and shit out because there's too many meanings for those to fit in one post. How many others are there ? 

 

I think "right now' and "right across the street" would be the same. Identifying a point, one in time, one physically.

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Falcon
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5/16/2023 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2023 1:19pm
sumdood wrote:
How many words have multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation ?  Right.  5 different meanings Turn right at the next street. This isn't put...

How many words have multiple meanings with the same spelling and pronunciation ? 

Right.  5 different meanings

Turn right at the next street.

This isn't put together right.

Right now i should be working.

He has a right to be here.

He's right across the street.

 

Left. 3 different meanings

Left. Turn left at the next street.

He was left behind.

There's only one spot left. 

 

Orange. 2 different meanings

He's on the orange KTM.

He ate an orange.

 

Can. 3 meanings.

Dogs smell things much better than people can. 

Can you believe this thread is back ?

Should this post go in the trash can ?   

 

I left fuck and shit out because there's too many meanings for those to fit in one post. How many others are there ? 

 

Lots and lots of those words. They are called homonyms, and they sound the same, or sound and are spelled the same. 

2 of your examples for left are the same root word, however: the verb, "to leave." (Left behind, one spot left.) 
2 for "can," also: "dogs can" and "can you?" (To be able to do something.) 

 

EDIT: Here's a real noodle twister: remember that homonyms sound the same. They must sound the same, but they may or may not be spelled the same.
Words which are spelled the same but do not sound the same and mean different things are called heteronyms. Here are a few examples:

Dove
-I dove into the pool.
-That dove made a nest in my eaves. 

Tear
-I found a tear in my brand new pants after that crash.
-I shed a tear every time I hear that song. 

 

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eddie
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5/16/2023 1:33pm

Lead .
 

 to two and too … 

SEEMEFIRST
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5/16/2023 2:03pm

Bear, hetro and hominym.

Falcon
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5/16/2023 2:43pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Bear, hetro and hominym.

Almost. To be a heteronym, it must sound different and have different meanings. 
To bear arms, to hunt for bear, and a bare wasteland are homonyms for "bear." 

Unless you have a heteronym for bear that I'm not thinking of.... 

SEEMEFIRST
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5/16/2023 10:14pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:

Bear, hetro and hominym.

Falcon wrote:
Almost. To be a heteronym, it must sound different and have different meanings.  To bear arms, to hunt for bear, and a bare wasteland are homonyms...

Almost. To be a heteronym, it must sound different and have different meanings. 
To bear arms, to hunt for bear, and a bare wasteland are homonyms for "bear." 

Unless you have a heteronym for bear that I'm not thinking of.... 

Oh, I guess I missed it. 

Thanks.

Falcon
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7/24/2023 11:25am Edited Date/Time 7/24/2023 11:27am

Drag vs. Drug:

I recently saw a quote from Austin Forkner wherein he stated he was drug [sic] by another rider down the start stretch after getting tangled up. All my best to him for a quick and full recovery, but I want to point out one of those commonly used grammatical errors between two words that he used.

When used as a verb (an action word,) Drug means to add drugs to someone's body or a substance: 
"I was drugged and forced to give piggyback rides to the entire sorority." Or, "Don't drink that! It's been drugged with Rohypnol."

The word Austin should have used is Drag:
"I was caught up in the bike and dragged down the start stretch." Or, "They drag the track too much between motos now. I like it rougher."  

Deja New
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7/24/2023 5:40pm

Drag vs Drug

Drugs bad mkay

Drag men in women’s clothes 

🤣

2
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SEEMEFIRST
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7/24/2023 7:31pm

"Hung-Hanged". One of those is a positive. 

Deja New
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7/24/2023 8:24pm

Hanged… we hanged him for his crimes

hung…. Did you see how hung he was.

🤣🤪 

gotta luv English 

Falcon
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7/25/2023 11:18am
Deja New wrote:

Hanged… we hanged him for his crimes

hung…. Did you see how hung he was.

🤣🤪 

gotta luv English 

Correct. Kudos to you and SEEMEFIRST for knowing about the verb "to be hanged." Not an action word I'd like to experience. 

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Old Shoe
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7/25/2023 2:34pm

I have always been confident in the use of “fun”.

We used to have fun, tell funny jokes. It was all good fun.

Young people today and some older ones that should know better, use it it a way that makes my skin crawl.

Has anyone else noticed this? I can’t think of an example at the moment, but it gets my attention every time I hear it.

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