Electronic Suspension

Bradj70
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San Antonio, TX, USA

Common in luxury and sport automobiles, and with most bikes now carrying a battery (either  for starting, or a completely  electronic  powertrain) will we see the use of electronic dampening adjustment  suspension?  

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Will Dirtbikes include Electronic dampening adjustment suspension in the near future?

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7/12/2023 10:07am

A good number of superbikes have the technology available already. I can see it happening within the next 10 years or so. I'm not too familiar with how it works at all but if it were possible to have an easy to access motocross to enduro to hard enduro setting that would be game changing. Although currently my favourite thing to tinker with is suspension so I probably wouldn't be happy with the added complexity.

1
Falcon
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7/12/2023 11:23am

I see two possibilities. Since MX is probably the most reliant of any sport on great suspension, either:

1) Electronic suspension will be a godsend and it will work awesomely, thus further escalating the technology wars, or;
2) There's no way in Hell it will work well enough for Motocross and it will be a complete waste. 

3
7/12/2023 2:59pm

On SXS's it seems to be pretty good. Most have an Oh $h!t Button that puts the damping to full hard, so if you go a little big on a jump You can hit that in the air. And they also are measuring the speed of the shock shafts or how fast the oil is moving,  to adjust the damping and rebound. I think that they could be magical if they set them up right.  I think that most MX forks and shocks are much more adjustable than most of the stuff they have electronics on now. Some are just changing compression damping.  I think it could be amazing for a lot of guys that do not know how to adjust their own stuff. And for tracks that get really rough , they might be good. Not having to compromise for when the track changes.  But its more to break and more $$. 

1
plowboy
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7/12/2023 3:31pm

My guess is that the techs in the truck look at the data from a hot lap and adjust suspension settings per sector.

1

The Shop

Hasletjoe
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Haslet, TX, USA
7/12/2023 4:31pm

I was under the impression Chase had some form of it last year out doors. I also recall another manufacturer playing with it earlier than that. They had a few catastrophic failures and moved it to the back burner.

1
plowboy
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7/12/2023 4:41pm
Hasletjoe wrote:
I was under the impression Chase had some form of it last year out doors. I also recall another manufacturer playing with it earlier than that...

I was under the impression Chase had some form of it last year out doors. I also recall another manufacturer playing with it earlier than that. They had a few catastrophic failures and moved it to the back burner.

I spent some time out in Rancho Cucamonga running tests on various aircraft actuators and control valves (very similar to bike suspension).  I doubt the bike folks test to the level aircraft require for release to production.

Bench testing in the 10's of thousands of cycles, at extreme cold/heat costs a shit ton of money.  I'm guessing these guys get "close" and let the rider's finish the testing at the races.  Jmo.

1
7/12/2023 4:46pm

I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed. But maybe I'm thinking of something else.  The only times I've seen factory teams using electronics and suspension is when they use the tools testing that record data and then they have to go in and make changes themselves.  I'm surprised its not in MX yet. 

plowboy
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7/12/2023 4:55pm
I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed...

I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed. But maybe I'm thinking of something else.  The only times I've seen factory teams using electronics and suspension is when they use the tools testing that record data and then they have to go in and make changes themselves.  I'm surprised its not in MX yet. 

We've seen it in F1...telemetry from/to the tech in the pits.  Hell, even the track can limit down force and pit speed.  It's probably coming to MX in some form or another.

BigRedMachine
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7/12/2023 5:15pm

Wouldn't surprise me, MX bikes have gone from air cooled, 2-stroke, kickstarter, dual rear shock, conventional fork, carbureted to watercooled, 4-stroke, electric start, single rear shock, upside down forks and fuel injections, so I can certainly see Electronic suspension eventually.  

7/12/2023 5:32pm
I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed...

I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed. But maybe I'm thinking of something else.  The only times I've seen factory teams using electronics and suspension is when they use the tools testing that record data and then they have to go in and make changes themselves.  I'm surprised its not in MX yet. 

plowboy wrote:
We've seen it in F1...telemetry from/to the tech in the pits.  Hell, even the track can limit down force and pit speed.  It's probably coming to...

We've seen it in F1...telemetry from/to the tech in the pits.  Hell, even the track can limit down force and pit speed.  It's probably coming to MX in some form or another.

I think that it would be even more valuable in MX.  With so much changing from the start to the end of a moto. I do not really know anything about F1, but I do not think there are major changes to the track conditions comparable to MX in F1.  Heat, tire wear, weight of the car after burning fuel. But the track itself is not changing like an MX track. I've been saying it ever since I first heard about active suspension controlled by a computer.  With the cars they can probable setup the suspension to adjust via GPS so its setup for each area of the track. And an engineer monitoring it.

With MX maybe the sensors to make it adjust fast enough are just not available at a price that would make it an advantage. I would think that if they had the suspension model the track so it could also learn how the track breaks down , lap to lap . It could then be programed to predict the base sections for the next lap so it wouldn't need to make big adjustments fast. With electronic suspension You can have the extreme stiff settings when you need them, and then also have super soft settings to soak up the tiny chatter bumps. You could have suspension do amazing things. The next thing I would think could happen as an evolution would be the ability to add and remove air to change spring rates as a part of the adjustments that could be made in microseconds by a computer. 

As long as they could build it so if it failed, it would just default to a standard setting and not become a danger as far as valving goes. The active air might be harder to have a failsafe built in. But there is so much that could be done with suspension a still..   

7/12/2023 6:06pm
I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed...

I'm not sure its legal right now in AMA Pro Racing.  I thought it was in the rulebook at one time saying it was not allowed. But maybe I'm thinking of something else.  The only times I've seen factory teams using electronics and suspension is when they use the tools testing that record data and then they have to go in and make changes themselves.  I'm surprised its not in MX yet. 

plowboy wrote:
We've seen it in F1...telemetry from/to the tech in the pits.  Hell, even the track can limit down force and pit speed.  It's probably coming to...

We've seen it in F1...telemetry from/to the tech in the pits.  Hell, even the track can limit down force and pit speed.  It's probably coming to MX in some form or another.

I think that it would be even more valuable in MX.  With so much changing from the start to the end of a moto. I do...

I think that it would be even more valuable in MX.  With so much changing from the start to the end of a moto. I do not really know anything about F1, but I do not think there are major changes to the track conditions comparable to MX in F1.  Heat, tire wear, weight of the car after burning fuel. But the track itself is not changing like an MX track. I've been saying it ever since I first heard about active suspension controlled by a computer.  With the cars they can probable setup the suspension to adjust via GPS so its setup for each area of the track. And an engineer monitoring it.

With MX maybe the sensors to make it adjust fast enough are just not available at a price that would make it an advantage. I would think that if they had the suspension model the track so it could also learn how the track breaks down , lap to lap . It could then be programed to predict the base sections for the next lap so it wouldn't need to make big adjustments fast. With electronic suspension You can have the extreme stiff settings when you need them, and then also have super soft settings to soak up the tiny chatter bumps. You could have suspension do amazing things. The next thing I would think could happen as an evolution would be the ability to add and remove air to change spring rates as a part of the adjustments that could be made in microseconds by a computer. 

As long as they could build it so if it failed, it would just default to a standard setting and not become a danger as far as valving goes. The active air might be harder to have a failsafe built in. But there is so much that could be done with suspension a still..   

F1 tracks are constantly changing, rubber gets laid down on the racing line, marbles (small balls of rubber) off the racing line, asphalt breaking down, water, oil and other debris on the track, the changes aren't as visible as a motocross track, but they all have an effect on lap times.

1
Lastander
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SE
7/13/2023 12:55am

Öhlins had it developed in the 90’s, along with GPS tracking so it would change to what section of the track you were on.
Illegal at the time, project dropped.

Richy
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7/13/2023 2:11am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2023 2:15am

Electronic suspension on a motocross bike can fuck wayyyyyyyy the fuck off, in my humble opinion.

Everyone else is entitled to theirs, but I don't wanna see these things get any more technology dependent or any further removed from the roots of what made Motocross bikes badass.

Pure and simple lightweight rocket ships for the dirt.

I'd sack traction, launch and flat shift along with it. Plus look how damn fast these pro folks are going now, do we really need to speed them up more, will that help the racing at all? Nope.

Fuel injection was an inevitability with four strokes and I know better than to try and fight that.

Anyway, I'm off to buy a 125, see ya.

7/13/2023 4:43am

Its already available for mountainbikes. But there it‘s mostly about pedalling efficiency which is not necessary with a motor.

can’t post the link directly… google „fox electronic suspension“ if you’re interested 

7/13/2023 5:17am
On SXS's it seems to be pretty good. Most have an Oh $h!t Button that puts the damping to full hard, so if you go a...

On SXS's it seems to be pretty good. Most have an Oh $h!t Button that puts the damping to full hard, so if you go a little big on a jump You can hit that in the air. And they also are measuring the speed of the shock shafts or how fast the oil is moving,  to adjust the damping and rebound. I think that they could be magical if they set them up right.  I think that most MX forks and shocks are much more adjustable than most of the stuff they have electronics on now. Some are just changing compression damping.  I think it could be amazing for a lot of guys that do not know how to adjust their own stuff. And for tracks that get really rough , they might be good. Not having to compromise for when the track changes.  But its more to break and more $$. 

I have the live valve on my SXS and was skeptical at first.  I'll be damned if it isn't a huge improvement.  I'm not sure i would give it up on a SXS now.  

1
WDSRCR
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USA
7/13/2023 6:04am

I have Live Valve on my Giant eBike and don't really feel like it's a benefit on that particular bike. I'd say it's probably very dependent on the actual application.

 

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