I did a search and didn't see a similar thread. I just picked up a 2023 and I'm just under 200 lbs, Vet B rider. What springs are you guys using that are near my size? I tried using the Racetech spring calculator but it's telling me to go softer on the forks when we know they already come way too soft from the factory. I have no problem sending my suspension out to have it revalved but would love to hear some feedback on heavier guys who've been happy with just springs vs people who have had them revalved. Suspension is not an area where I want to skimp so who is the best for the Showas? My current bike has KYB and I've never had Showa so not sure if PC is the obvious answer or if FC, Enzo, or others are the right call. I really prefer to go with a reputable company (vs local) as I have my right ankle fused from a suspension hack in central Florida who botched my suspension and made it much softer than the already soft stock suspension. I'm sure there are some great smaller local guys but figure some of the bigger names have really dialed in settings. Thanks!
Should be info in the 2019 kx450 thread. I don’t think they’ve changed much suspension wise since?
.52 - .53 springs up front. Oil ~340
Out back, you can get away with the 5.5, but recommend going up to 5.7, so it is a little more “free” and won’t pack as much
The 19-23 KX 450 comes with 310cc of oil in the forks. Raising the volume to 350-370 makes a hugh difference if you want to try and get by with stock springs as they are not that light. 5.0nm /.51kg
I got a couple green bikes in the garage right now and I've always had very good luck with ENZO even with Showa. Ask for Will.
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Should I drain them to confirm they only have 310 or is that definitely what they put in all of them? If so, I could start by adding 40 each and see how that does. I spoke to a couple tuners today and they recommended breaking in the suspension for 4-5 hrs before sending them in.
I figured they were mostly KYB but it sounds like they do a lot of Showa.
If you have time let them drain for a bit because the oil volume could be off from the factory. My 23 Yam 450 was 40cc low!
We were struggling setting up stock stuff on ours (B 165lb). Factory Connection is the place for us, as long as you know what you are looking for, they will nail it the first go. It's amazing how good this bike is with only some suspension. I also always change the upper triple to the bud version. This time we have ran the full triple but it's stock offset.
If you're under 200 lbs, you can run the stock spring rate with valving adjustments only. The fork is just valved very soft stock.
So while driving back from picking it up, I made several calls to suspension companies. Feel free to give your input. First off, everyone was cool on the phone and these comments were as I remember it while driving so I may be off on pricing or details. If any techs are on here I apologize if I misrepresent anything you said.
Graeme Brough- such a nice dude and would have spent hours on the phone educating me. Cheapest at $800 for new springs and revalve. He said KX's internals are really good and didn't recommend changing much as they were very close to A kit once finessed. I inquired about national spring tubes or volume spacers and he recommended I try it without, and said he could add the spring tubes or he'd coach me how to add them later if I wanted more plushness/hold up so I can tell he'd provide tons of support as I dial it in and that's worth a lot!
Ride JBI- JB was also super cool and I can tell he'd provide all the support I'd need as he also answered every question I had. Unlike GB, he does recommend changing out some internals in his Pro kit and would be about $1050 for springs, revalve and his pro kit.
Enzo- Craig was nice but I could tell he was at dinner so I felt a little awkward even though he was in no way short with me. Cool of him to answer. He recommends springs, revalve and spring tubes for about $1100.
I think it's between the top 3 and just wish I could hear from people who have used more than one of these.
PC- price wasn't bad for $900ish for just springs and revalve but had zero connection with the guy on the phone and I felt like an employee in a large company where you are just a number on the hamster wheel. Felt like there wouldn't be much support after it left PC.
Art of War- nice guy and answered all my questions, plus I could drive 2.5 hrs to them. He agreed with GB that the KX internals were the best stock Showas of the 450s and therefore didn't recommend changing anything and just do a revalve and springs for $1070. The others in that price range fabbed their own parts so it seemed a little pricey for just shim stacks. I do think I'd get good support but I'd rather pay to ship stuff than drive 5 hrs round trip each time.
Factory Connection- cool guy and I feel like I'd get plenty of support. They change out tons of stuff so theirs may be a decent value but at $1600, I'm not sure I have the ability to appreciate theirs, but it's probably good stuff.
I guess my question is, why do some guys like Graeme Brough think everything inside is engineered well vs others who feel the need to change some, or most out? It would be nice to know how many setups each has done on these Showas to know how dialed their setups are for me. Sorry for thr long post but thought this info may help others.
Smart of you to call around and ask!
My Kawi's are both done by Pro Circuit - I can honestly say these are the most comfortable, rider friendly bikes I've ever had. I told him I'm interested in any and every add-on they could do, and he came back with a similar response: the internals are so good stock, there's not much to do. I am an A rider and he said I might be able to benefit from A-kit tubes, but I would have needed to buy more X-trig clamps to fit the larger tubes and I decided I didn't want to invest that much into both bikes. Each set was right around $1,000 with springs.
Enzo will do a great job even though it's Showa, they thoroughly understand suspension of all types and they are all great guys.
Another option to consider is REP/AEO. Mark Johnson is a wizard on all suspension, and I've seen his stuff on a number of good riders' Kawi's.
I think in general FC does a good job, but I think they are on the pricier side and I'm not sure they nail it first time on every bike. My buddy sent his '22 CRF450R suspension there for an off-road A class setting. It came back really stiff and fast rebound, it bounced all over the place. He sent it back and they changed some things, but he was never satisfied with it. He just sent his stuff to get reworked @ Pro Circuit after he spent some time on one of my bikes. I also know of a top amateur on Honda's that is paying to have all his stuff re-done by PC after getting FC stuff. I'm sure there or dozens of members on here that swear by FC, but I will say I've been getting mixed reviews lately.
No matter who does it, this is a wise investment!
Factory Connection did a great job on mine. It's one of the better suspended bikes that i've owned. No complaints with FC so no reason to switch. Good luck finding a suspension company that you can build a relationship with. First thing is to explain to the suspension companies what it is you don't like about the stock suspension. Once they hear this...they can adjust.
This is probably one of the easiest forks to revalve. LSV stack is flipped-just have to flip the stack to cover ports. Midvalve I close float .5mm and added two face shim to base valve. With proper springs it works really well for me. I think I made small change to rebound. Shock needed small change but it is very good stock.
Thanks for that detailed response. I'll put PC back in the mix. Good to hear they agree about the good internals. Makes me question why others are feeling the need to reinvent the wheel. With my fused ankle, suspension is critical to me so I would have no problem paying more if there is a significant benefit but don't want to waste money.
I have no problem going inside my forks as I disassemble my PSF1 when servicing, but Id need someone to give me a list of what to change as I'm clueless when it comes to the why.
I’m tall and heavy at 6’3” and 215-220lbs. I race +40 B motocross. I got the correct spring rates front and rear for my weight according to the Race Tech calculator and installed a Gold Valve kit in the forks because they were still diving under hard decel and felt harsh. I installed the kit myself, and it was fun. I didn’t revalve the shock because it worked great once I installed the correct spring. I’m extremely happy with my setup now.
What you describe, you may want to consider gold valve like quadzrulebro just stated. If anything, it would be easy to flip the low speed valve stack on the base valve and add a face shim or two on the base valve stack if you do not want to do gold valves. This will give the bike holdup and satisfy most riders. There are plenty of videos available. If you can change fluid in an inner chamber, it’s just a matter of removing the peening and measuring some shims on the base valve. Dial caliper and cartridge wrenches are required and a decent vise. For safety though, if it is something you are not comfortable with it’s best for a shop to do the work.
Can i ask your clicker settings?....
We are same same.
Pit Row
I have worked with Art of War on a really good setting for the KX. Johny really knows his stuff and will work with you to get the suspension dialed. The suspension has good hold up and bottoming resistance. I find it a little soft on national style tracks but I am a little faster at Open A/Vet , so I think you would like the setting a lot. Feel free to message me if you have nay questions.
I have ran several suspension companies on my current gen kx450s. I switched to Pro Circuit about a year ago & as stated above it is the most comfortable & best suspension i've ran. PC has the best settings for kawasaki 450's IMO. You may feel like a number on a hamster wheel but i believe you won't need to get major changes after you get it back. Bolt it on then maybe test some clickers. I run it much softer than their base. I also run the high speed pretty soft. Maybe i lost a few pounds this spring, not sure but the hold up is phenomenal.
I ran FC in 2019, start of 2020 & honestly felt like i was on a pogo stick out there. Just bouncing up & down a lot. Also my sag was not able to be set properly so i had to send it back to FC 2x through the year to get different springs. One time it came back & still was wrong so count that as 3x.
I'd go PC. Also price point is pretty solid.
The clicker settings change based on the track surface, but they are fairly close to the stock settings. After you get the correct springs, increase the fork oil to 350ml. That will get you in the ballpark. Like I said, I put the Gold Valve kit in the forks to balance out the bike and get more hold up in the front end. I slowed the shock rebound by a click or two to compensate for the much stiffer shock spring I required. I had to go from the stock 5.5 to a 6.0.to achieve the correct ride height and free sag.
When I bought my 19 kx450 new, i had FC do a revalve as im a heavier guy needed one no matter what. The bike had 10 hours on it when I did the revalve. At the time, factory connection came to a local track and offered revalves on site. It was cool because after the revalve, I got to ride it to try it out and they helped set it up for me. I was happy with it until I bought a new yz250f in 2021. I was blown away by how the kyb's felt with just a spring change. The suspension was plush and soaked up much more. I as well felt like the FC revalved suspension was bouncing all over the place in accel chop and no matter how much I adjusted it, I could find a good setting that made it feel like the kyb. I talked to FC about my issue and they said they had developed a better revalve for the forks. I was at the point where I either send it back for a revalve or move on to another bike... I moved on to a yz450. Aside from the suspension issue, I wanted more grunt as well.
If I bought another kx450, I would go with pro circuit for the revalue. A few of my friends were very happy with their work and I see a lot of people on here mention the same thing.
I just had AEO/REP install 6500's and revalve my suspension on my 22 350sxf. They absolutely knocked it out of the park. Great hold up and great bottoming resistance. I was launching some singles today and the landings were so much smoother. Even over jumping or casing, the suspension soaked it up very well. Well worth the money I spent. It makes me realize how much better the kyb's on my yz450, could be after a revalve.
Thanks for all of the replies! I took the '23 out for some mellow break-in riding at a track last night. I know suspensions feel harsh when they are breaking in, but I couldn't believe how bad my wrists were hurting with every bump I hit (even at 2/3rd speed) compared to my '13 bike. It made me appreciate how good the PSF1 air forks are on that bike. But the more I rode, the more I realized the vibration and harshness was mostly coming from handlebars. Now I know why Keefer and other reviewers said to take the handlebars off and chuck them as far away from the bike as possible as it is like riding a rigid chopper. Before I can even get a feel for the suspension, I need to change out the bars. I always thought crossbars added stiffness but never had an issue with the stock bars on my '13. If I'm wanting to stay with 1 1/8", are the Pro Taper ACF carbon core bars the most plush? My old joints need some flex and I'm not even going to ride it again until I get new bars as my wrists are really sore this morning.
The chassis is definitely an upgrade over my '13, especially in the corners as it feels way more front-end biased than my '13. One thing I noticed is how much busier the rear end is on the '23. When I'd come hot into a corner, I felt like I had way less traction (in the rear but no problems up front) and even without using the rear brake, the rear end was dancing around and skidding under engine braking. I wonder if the soft front end is just compressing too much and it would feel a lot different with more hold up. I ended up having to sit further back on the seat to keep it planted as it felt like there was way more weight on the front of the bike than the rear. This is opposite of my '13 where I feel like I need to get my balls on the gas tank to get it to turn well. Way more front-end traction on the new bike but way less rear-end (in the current setup). Of course, some of that could be the tires as I run a Pirelli MX32 rear on my '13 vs the Dunlop MX33. Speaking of the MX33, after just an hour of riding, the rear tire was more worn than the MX32 on my '13 that I have 5 hours ago. I haven't run the Dunlops before but man do they round off fast after just an hour of mellow riding.
I couldn't find a lot of information/reviews of the national spring tubes Craig Decker of Enzo was recommending installing but they sound intriguing. Evidently they allow them to increase hold up and bottoming resistance while keep it plush in the upper stroke. It's interesting that PC and others didn't see the need for that but there's obviously multiple ways to skin a cat. Just makes it tough to decide on a company without feeling the difference. After getting reminded last night just how important plushness is to my old joints, I'd rank my desired traits as #1 bottoming resistance (for my fused ankle), #2 Plushness (for my old man joints), #3 holdup. At my age, I'm either going to have to slow down, or find a setup that beats me up the least, even if there is a trade off in other areas (since I don't race).
The bike probably feels overly hard because the stock valving on the forks lets it dive too much and your riding in the mid-stroke. The real probably feels overly busy because the its always extended due to the forks diving and not keeping the weight on the rear. The pro taper EVO or ACF bars are good replacements. If you want a crossbar you can run the fusion bars with them unlocked for the same feeling. The pro taper race team bend is the same as the Renthal 839(stock). I find the Pirelli is a much better tire than the 33 for east coast dirt.
Give Precision Concepts a call to see what they have to say, and pricing. I had them do the suspension on my 21 KX450 and it's been great. Good hold up, I can send singles to flat and not have to worry about bottoming or rebound bounce. Square edges are predictable, and the front end doesn't deflect of loose rocks. I race Open A in the AMA WHS series, 6' 190lbs. They run a kawi factory support team for WORC's and NGPC series and their riders are consistently on the podium. They have been racing the KX platform for a while now and have tons of hours of testing to come up with settings. Ask to talk to Bob Bell, he's the one that would be able to talk to you about the technical details of what they recommend. For me it was springs, revalve, lower link, and a shock bladder cap.
Just a heads up, my buddy sent his suspension to Enzo 7 weeks ago and they are now only getting to it. This is not a knock on their quality of work, if anything it proves how good they are with how much work they have but I'd hate to get a new a bike and then have it sit in the garage for almost 2 months waiting for the suspension to be done.
I second this.. Enzo did the showas on my 23 crf250r, vet b 200lbs and it’s really nice
Would love to hear your settlings if possible plesse
Where did Keefer say the bars are rigid? I’ve listened to everything Keefer has out on Kawi’s (that I know of), and I’ve never heard that. The Renthal Fat Bars feel the opposite to me.
My 19 and 21 needed revalved. My 22 SR was on point right I’d the box. I weigh 160 with gear.
He said the same thing in multiple videos and his hour long pod casts. I've listened to probably 30+ hours of videos and podcasts on the new gen KX over the past couple weeks so I don't recall exactly where but it was pretty much any time he was discussing the rider triangle and controls. I wonder if Renthal makes a cheaper spec to save money on the stock bar because Keefer said something along the lines of, the cheap stock bars have a nice bend but are rigid as hell so chuck the stock bars and grips. He's a fan of the Pro Taper Evos for the fat bars though so he's not anti 1-1/8".
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