Just finished rebuilding the 2000 KX60.
I’ve noticed in neutral it wants to pull away like it’s in gear. I know there’s supposed to be a little bit of rear wheel movement especially when the bike is on a stand but that is not the case here.
It wants to spin the wheels hard enough that I have to pull the clutch in when I’m in neutral so it doesn’t bog down. When I let go of the clutch (in neutral) the bike is wanting to pull away so much that it bogs down a little as if you were in gear and easing off the clutch but still stays running (albeit it only stays running with the choke on, but we’ll solve one thing at a time. Also, the air intake boot has a bit of a leak, I know it’s running a hair lean but the new boot is coming soon)
When I put the idling bike on a stand the rear wheel IMMEDIATELY began spinning fast enough to look like you’re going slow in first gear.
when I was doing the bottom end rebuild, I tried to take the clutch off, but the main bolt would not bulge so I left it on because the clutch and everything on that side of the motor looked fine. I torqued the spring nuts to the manual specifications before putting the engine cover on. When I assembled it I was very meticulous about putting all of the parts back, including that little washer (if you know, you know)
Is this a clutch cable adjustment issue?
are the clutch spring bolts too tight? (That’s what I’m thinking)
in this video, at about 54 seconds I let off the clutch and you can see it pull.
https://youtu.be/uD7Q9uMQHxI
Transmission problem. Sounds like your neutral aint exactly neutral. Something is dragging and allowing power to transfer from the main shaft to the countershaft. Probably something not assembled quite right.
What in the world could be dragging so slightly to cause it to pull a little in neutral, but not hard enough to take off?
Lots of things. A missing shim on one of the shafts, a bearing not seated fully, the shift drum being out of alignment/position, a shift fork hanging up.. etc.
Man I’m hoping I’m not going to have to split the case again. But I’d have to, it’s more to learn I guess.
im reading around and seeing it could possibly be the transmission fluid thickness doing it. It could also be the clutch spring nuts are too tight.
any input is welcome!
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The transmission was not disassembled when doing the rebuild. I kept it in place with zip ties and made sure to coat it in trans fluid before reassembling the motor.
Yup, I saw your other vids. Think of how the clutch and trans work. When the engine is spinning, the clutch and entire main shaft are spinning (unless the clutch is pulled in). If the trans is in neutral, there should be no power/connectivity from the main shaft to the countershaft causing the bike to want to move. If there is, that means you don't have neutral like you are supposed to. Something is touching from the main shaft to the countershaft. This means it's most likely a trans prob, not a clutch prob. Like I said, there's quite a few little things in the trans that could be assembled wrong that would allow things to be out of alignment. A missing shim or a shim placed in the wrong spot, etc. The shift drum might not be oriented correctly and is causing the gears to not be properly in neutral. With the engine off, does the trans shift properly through all 6 gears and it all feels correct? If it's in neutral (with engine off) does the back wheel spin free?
When the engine is off, the bike does shift through all of the gears properly. It feels right.
I’m going to double check in the morning, but with the engine off it does feel like it should spin a little more freely in neutral. It’s smooth, but feels like it’s being held up by something . Will check in the morning.
Checked it out this morning before leaving for work….
it clicks very clearly when shifting gears including when shifting into neutral. But when it’s in the neutral the rear wheel spins but not freely at all. Something is definitely catching as you have to apply a moderate amount of force to make the wheel spin in neutral
How did you tighten the clutch basket bolt? It needs to be torqued to the correct spec. I ran into this problem with an 03 KX65. I always buzzed the nut with an impact but if you hit it too hard, the entire clutch will drag on the motor.
To be honest, after trying to get it loose for a couple of minutes with my small impact I just tightened it back up for an equal amount of time. I didn’t have a torque wrench at the time (was buying the tools as I needed them)
in hindsight I should’ve made sure it was torqued right.
but when you say “drag the motor,” tell me what you mean. Did that make it spin the rear wheel hard when it was idling in neutral?
Well it’s been a few years but I definitely remember that the bike wouldn’t completely disengage into neutral with the clutch pulled in. Basically I would sit on it in neutral and attempt to put it in 1st gear. It would instantly lurch forward and take off. I don’t think I tried running it in neutral on the stand. The clutch system is different on these 60/65s than a bigger bike. I replaced everything on mine including the basket, hub, lever, etc and it didn’t work until I loosened the clutch bolt.
You’ve given me a glimmer of hope! That sounds very similar to what I’m experiencing.
I only figured it out with the clutch cover off. If you take the clutch off and the bike rolls freely in neutral, you’ve found the problem. Somehow the way the clutch inner hub is tightened against the basket doesn’t like extra torque.
Hopefully I’ll have a couple hours this weekend to take it apart and see. Praying it’s the clutch and I don’t have to take the motor back out of the frame and split the cases. Thank you for the troubleshooting advice.
Update.
I don’t have time to open it up this evening, but just messing with it in my garage upon getting home from work I’ve noticed when it’s in neutral with the motor off, it spins MUCH more freely when I pull the clutch in.
https://youtu.be/eyKK2ck-JQw
video of what it’s doing currently
My 65 was the same. The clutch disengaged just enough to put it in gear without the engine dying, but it would lurch and take off. I’m pretty sure your clutch hub is too tight.
Interesting. I’m hoping that’s the issue. Going to bust the clutch cover open tomorrow after work.
when your clutch bolt was too tight it was spin like that in neutral?
Pit Row
UPDATE! Video below.
I was able to take the clutch off. The clutch plates are in terrible condition from sitting for 16+ years. There’s a ton of friction even when lightly squeezing them together which is probably causing this “drag” issue. You can see in the short video the clutch plates have essentially fused on to the steel plates. Also the clutch springs were almost a whole millimeter out of spec.
When the clutch plates are off the bike spins freely as it should when in neutral which confirms it’s not a transmission issue as I suspected.
ordering a new clutch plate kit.
https://youtu.be/Mtv0aKvGZXA
You haven't confirmed it isn't a transmission issue. In neutral it should spin freely regardless of the clutch engagement. My guess is if the clutch is fused together so are the gears in the transmission. So instead of only engaging when the dog clutches are engaged, they're partially fused to the main/counter shaft so they drag even when not in gear. I think spinning freely without the clutch does confirm it's only only gear that's stuck. If multiple gears were stuck it'd be like it was in multiple gears at one time wouldn't even want to move with the clutch removed.
If you don't want to split the cases maybe try filling it with penetrating oil and spinning it until it loosens up.
I appreciate your insight.
When I had the cases split while doing the bottom end rebuild the transmission spun extremely well. I double checked the transmission before I put the case halves together.
With the cases split, I put the transmission in neutral via shift drum with my fingers, it spun smooth and fast. I could spin it quickly with my finger tips and it would continue spinning for a moment or two even after I let go. It spun freely. Then I shifted up through all of the gears and back down to first and no gear seemed to “drag” or doing anything to indicate problem.
When I took the clutch cover off I spun the clutch basket (before removing clutch plates) and noticed at least 2 pairs of the fibers and steel plates sticking and not spinning while the rest of the steel discs were spinning indicating they were dragging very hard. If you’ve watched the video I posted of above you can see the condition the clutch plates and steel discs were in (terrible)
as soon as I removed the clutch plates the problem was gone which in my eyes, with the above information in mind, means it was the clutch. Also keep in mind apparently the way these clutches work on these kx60/65’s is a lot different than the other bikes.
If you shifted through all the gears and it spun freely in each gear you don't have a stuck gear. Definitely a puzzle why neutral is dragging in that case.
It's not the clutch though. With the clutch plates removed it'll obviously spin freely. But stuck clutch plates would make the clutch drag, it wouldn't make neutral drag. If you put it in neutral and turn the inner clutch hub does the wheel turn?
As another member commented above, the main 14mm clutch bolt may have been tightened too much. As I’ve stated above somewhere, I couldn’t get the main bolt off with my impact when initially disassembling the motor. After trying for a couple minutes, I just tightened it for an equal amount of time instead of torquing it back to the proper spec (didn’t have a torque wrench at the time)
I was doing some research yesterday and noticed that sixth gear on the input shaft rests on top of the bottom gear on the output shaft (if you have the motor split, with the transmission vertical as of you were working on it). So in theory, if the clutch hub bolt is too tight, it’ll pull the input shaft and create enough drag as the two gears mentioned previously rub sides. The two gears I feel may be dragging are shown in this pic and circled.
Being that the tire spun freely in neutral after removing the clutch bolt shows this may have been the case.
I have the new clutch plates and steel discs soaking in fluid. Waiting for the new clutch springs to come in. As soon as they’re at my door I’ll be installing everything and torquing that clutch bolt properly and we’ll see what she does.
UPDATE.
https://youtu.be/KCk_2N5ncwM
Well I had to split the cases after putting the new clutch on and properly torquing the clutch hub bolt to find that the bike still drags in neutral indicating it was indeed not a clutch issue and a transmission issue instead.
As shown in the video, the transmission works as it's supposed to. When I was fiddling with the trans I did notice, as one of you said, the transmission can get caught and do weird things if something is even barely off. If I remember right, when I pulled the cases together I had the motor upright (as it would be if it were in the frame with the bike standing straight up) which may have caused a shift fork or something to get lodged in a weird way just enough to cause an issue. When I pull the cases together again I will make sure the engine half holding the trans is facing up so I can place the other case half straight down.
I checked all bearings and they were spinning like butter as they were all just replaced!
to be continued.
Good deal.. Suggest verifying every little piece against the parts fiche. Make sure there's not a missing washer or shim on one of the shaft ends, etc. Also, once you have the cases together, verify you can still spin the crank and clutch without dragging the countershaft along. You can even put the bottom end in the frame before putting the clutch cover or top end on. That way you can spin the crank and the clutch and verify you are still good and it's not trying to spin the chain and rear wheel
Good ideas. The bike has never been opened up before this. Dad bought it brand new for me when I was a kid back in 2000. That said it’s very possible a shim or washer fell off unnoticed when I split it the first time.
will definitely be verifying with the fiche.
I HAVE IDENTIFIED THE ISSUE! read on.
After splitting the cases I examined the transmission as shown before.
After seeing everything was fine me and my little helper joined the cases. After a few minutes I put the motor (without engine covers or top end) back into the frame and tested. Here’s the video showing that.
https://youtu.be/K4WLyBzhy4g
After confirmed the transmission was not dragging I removed the motor from the frame and realized I hadn’t put any of the engine screws back in so I did just that.
On the left side of the case there are 9 Phillips head screws to hold the halves together. 4 behind the flywheel and another 5 outside along the top, rear and bottom of the case surrounding the outside of the transmission. I tightened them up and I was ready to call it a night, relieved to have a properly working transmission when I decided to test it one more time with the engine on the table. I spun the clutch bolt with the impact as I did before to simulate a running engine AND THE F-ing PROBLEM WAS BACK. video below.
https://youtu.be/Oa-NUeBgxaI
I realized that tightening the engine crank case bolts even just snug makes the transmission drag HARD.
I loosened them up and the transmission works fine. The manual doesn’t give a torque spec on these bolts, it just says “tighten carefully”
I guess I’m going to leave the screws just barely tightened and let the frame/engine mount bolts hold it together?
You'll definitely need those bolts tight to keep it from leaking. I bet it'd act like that if one of the bearings isn't full seated in the case. I think you're getting close to finding the real problem now.
Hmmm. That’s a solid point. So thankfully to get the advice of more experienced dirt bike mechanics!
I did just change the transmission bearings. perhaps you’re right. As much as I don’t want to…. I may have to split the cases again. I can split and rejoin the cases in a matter of a couple of hours now. I’m going to double check and tap the bearings I installed again to make sure they’re seated.
stay tuned!
It may sound silly, but I've sadly made this silly mistake with a motor that had been apart for a few months. Make sure that the oring on the output shaft is being installed after the case halfs are joined.
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