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Come to think of it, you're right. I don't know one horse owner that doesn't have either an ATV or motorcycle in their steed.
Did you not realize that Alta existed?
Go online and find it yourself. Electricdirtriders forum has Varg customers talking on there and all the first order bikes were promised September 2022. And they've paid for the deposit at least to get the order started which is like what $100-200 deposit? So yes they've paid a deposit and YES they were promised delivery dates and they keep pushing them back. Now I'm hearing they are pushing them to 2024...L.O.fkn.L. #fyrefest
Haha what are you doing on a forum called electricdirtriders? lol
I'm typing this as slowly as I can in hopes you are able to follow. For the customers that put down $100 deposits, Stark provided estimated delivery dates. They did not promise delivery by a certain date. Do you understand the difference?
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I had to make sure of people's order dates to get it in writing. And yes if they provide a date, that is a "promise date" of delivery, regardless if you put the word "estimate" in front of it. You're making it sound like "estimated delivery date" isn't considered a promise of some sort. Why else give a date at all? Unless to provide a window of promise for delivery.
All I'm saying is. It sure seems like they keep lying to their customers about when they're going to get the bikes and yet keep promoting them like they're available. Its very suspect of a scam type operation at this point. Just reading between the lines here.
So you don't understand, got it.
Dude, he‘s got more info on electric motorcycles than anybody! Ask him about the electric motorcycle from the 19th century..
Oh no, the poor grass on the hill! Now that a tire ripped up a 3 square foot surface of the wilderness, how will we recover? these kids are out of control. better lock them inside and give them video games and adderall....
Not what I said at all. I was as guilty of tearing things up on my motorcycle as a kid as the next person, difference is I didn't do it in front of people who hate anything with a motor on trails that are marked as non-motorized by law. I also wasn't blasting around/on those same hiking/walking trails scaring and pissing off people just trying to be outside with their friends and animals.
There are areas one can still ride around here without pissing off the people who wield influence on local government that will crack down hard on such activities which means ANYTHING with a motor will then be outlawed, including e-mtb's which for now are accepted.
Dude, I’m one of those dudes that hopes electric never takes over and believe it is far from being what will “save our sport”. I’m cool with it being there as an option, but I never want it to take over and even I don’t see the Stark being a scam. If anything, I thought the Alta was more likely to be a scam than the Stark.
We are in a weird time where even long time well established companies can’t produce product in their given time estimates. A start up company isn’t going to have any better luck than them.
No I hear you and I'm with you. EV will not take over, it just wont. It can be a separate option for the amateur races. I'm just saying its very suspicious how quiet and misleading they're being about their timelines for how much they keep pumping these bikes up as being the greatest dirtbike ever produced. Its beyond laughable.
Yes, I realise Alta exists- and it's a pretty lonely existence with Starks failure to launch.
The Redshifts were raced but were never homologated and never raced in ProMX.
They competed in a round of Straight rhythm and a few minor EnduroCross events.
The Stark so called deposit arrangement is not legally binding and puts you on a list as an interested person, as a potential customer, not a contracted purchaser.
Stark may contact you to offer you a contract to purchase a motorcycle.
That little device saves them a lot of legal obligations, apparently.
Other than speaking the obvious I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I think you're agreeing with me, but in an odd way.
Some of you guys couldn't bake a batch of one dozen cookies and deliver them to your neighbor at a promised delivery time, yet you're bitching about a startup company trying to produce a brand-new machine, made up of thousands of parts from dozens of suppliers, which is running into production delays while still reeling from a worldwide supply chain catastrophe. I'm surprised Stark Future hasn't just said, "screw it, we're not doing this after all."
But what if I left a deposit on said cookies...
Then Falcon's cookies would be the Fyre Fest of cookies
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That might be the worst sales business model ever. If they're basing all their production, investments, and loans based off "potential buyers" and not "contracted buyers" then they should just file for bankruptcy now. I'm not trying to be so harsh, but DAMNIT. If they "pre-sold 10k orders in 3 months", then produced all 10k bikes and the depositors are NOT obligated to buy the bike...Does NO ONE see the potential problem with that? You will most definitely be left with a lot of bikes not actually getting purchased. That's a lot of inventory to create to not have a purchase agreement for each one.
Then they'd be REQUIRED to deliver to you at agreed on date but at the same time the deposit wouldn't be legally binding so wait no...
Take off your tin foil hat homie. Stark is not out to get you.
So you think they are going to produce 10k bikes, and when and only when they are done producing 10k bikes they will start filling customer orders? Or do you think it is possible when the first bike gets rolled off the line, it goes to the first person to put up the purchase price. And then the same with the second bike, and third, and on and on until they run out of ready and willing customers at which point they only produce enough to keep sufficient inventory on hand but no more? Do you understand the difference?
We’re you back in the trails of Old Agoura / Cheseboro?
if that’s the case I 100% agree. Lots and lots of horse Karen’s there that really love to take ownership of the area. It’s finally mellowed out now, but a few years ago I would get harassed or sour looks constantly while on my eMTB
Naw, Autumn Ridge trail/Lang Ranch open space, but yeah Old Agoura/Cheseboro is full of Karens. Our daughter boards her horse up there and most of the time I just have to bite my tongue at some of the shit they spew.
Here's what I know. The last video I saw of them talking about orders, they had produced 13k bikes RIGHT NOW, but still haven't shipped a single 1 to a customer. They don't have 13k sold bikes..
There is a sales rep going around Europe with a shell demo bike. They are trying to establish a dealer network.
Holy shit, you think they have 13k finished units? Please tell me you don't think they have 13k bikes produced RIGHT NOW.
Can you link that video you saw so I can help you understand whatever you misunderstood?
Right on. Ironic part is Lang Ranch area is where Johnny O had his private SX track back in the late 80s. Saw it once when I was a kid
I have had multiple run ins with Horse people on Cheseboro, mostly older ladys. The one kid i see a lot is cool, i think he gives tours, always just says Hi.
I came across no less than 6 people on horses, blocking the trail that was wide enough for a truck to drive ( just up from the parking lot). As i was riding a Karen put her hand out as if to say stop. I just waved and rode into the weeds ( slow enough to not scare the horses) and boy did she light up about MTB's. I just ignored her.
I always slow down but some think we should walk our bike and bow to them.
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