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Another point I wanted to add is that this type of system would also have a major impact on improving the product for the consumer. Manufacturers would be able to try setups that they are restricted from in the current system. Maybe they would realize that a 350 is the idle engine size, or that they could further develop two strokes and make them competitive, etc. The sky would be the limit.
And another point, this setup would ensure that the lower tier remains 100% a development class. Having three tiers would be even better to help riders develop.
Ok bud
I'm referring to professional development, like moving from minor to major league in baseball. I think putting any kind of age restrictions on the racing is ridiculous. Who cares what age you are if you are fast and can win.
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Most every season, after about ten rounds, the guys are sorted, both classes. Cream rises. By combining the east and west, you are just eliminating one level of uncertainty in the sorting process, making it just a little more boring for the viewers after the initial ten rounds.
My opinion: Season should be twelve rounds each to maximize interest and minimize injury. But the goal is selling out stadiums and tracks, so we have these long seasons to generate revenue.
Except your model doesn't work because noone want to pay the "faster" guys placing below 10th or 15th place in one class when they could be paying the "slower" guy that's actually winning the race of the other class. Sandbagging galore.
Think of the age restriction like college, not minor league.
Wrong. The lower classes will always be just that, lower pay, lower prestige, lower skill level, etc. Every dude in the top class will be of higher value than the guys in the lower class. Every fast guy will have the incentive to get to the top class. Like I said in either this thread or another, this system would require a complete overhaul of the relationship with the promoters, factories, riders, etc. It likely won't ever happen in the current "league" and needs a fresh start. And there is no college in moto.
This system has been applied very successfully in other sports. It completely eliminates sandbagging.
Are you seeding guys on a race by race basis or by season?
Either way it doesn't matter, winners get paid. No matter how perfect you think your system is there will be 2 winners who will be the most appealing racers at each race. Look at Colt Nichols or Christian Craig in 250 vs 450.
Long overdue and makes more sense than ever with riders using Supercross Futures as a stepping stone to be ready for the 250 class.
Can't sandbag a pro class.
He's talking about seeding guys into an "A" race or "B" race based on their speed. So the 22 "fastest" guys would all be in the A race. Trouble is you're alot better off winning the B race than coming in 20th in the A race just like it is now with the 250e/w & 450 classes
But those guys really want those Half Championships.
Its super simple
as i have always held this belief, since you have guys who are amazing 125/250f riders and guys who are great 250/450 riders
I personally want to see the best pilots of both.
With that said,
1. Take Futures to the next step, futures east/west. (Cant be over the age of 20)
2. 250f class is now the 2nd premiere level. Runs the full series. No age limit, no championship limit. (If you cant find the budget then leave) This is the best of the best of the 250f riders. (you can be a lifer in this class)
3. 450f Class, The Absolute pinnacle, Legends of the sport (Runs full series etc).
=====
I see no reason, why our sport cant do something like this.
I think they really want a paycheck. When Savatgy was still in the top ten and had barely made enough purse money to pay for his plane tickets, the incentive to stop milking the cow loses out.
As long as the OEM's are willing to pay for 250 titles, and the contracts are for more than 450 purses, why would anyone cut their own throat?The sanctioning bodies and promoters won't fix it because basically, they don't have to. They don't just get the milk for free, they get to eat the cow too.
Only problem is the schedule would be hard to do with 3 classes on race day. I think 2 is all the more they could do. Imagine the race schedule for 3 classes.
I like this idea a lot but what I would do instead is this:
250 futures (<20) class races 6 rounds
250 pro class, 11 rounds - after a title you have one year to defend. Regardless of results of your title defense you must move up to 450s the year after trying to defend your title.
450 class - 17 rounds.
Actually, I would cut supercross to 15 rounds but if it stays at 17 then do 6 for futures and 11 for the 250 pro class. If it got cut to 15 rounds then do 5 "futures", 10 pro 250. As another option for privateers i would make the "futures class" all stock other than specified suspension mods that any privateer can do without breaking the bank and if this is done maybe make this class up to the age of 22 or 23. That said, here again, after a title you have one year to defend then have to move up. Pay should be structured so 450s are significanly more than 250 pro and 250 pro more than "futures/stock" class
But this is like saying that the best guys in minor league baseball are better off than the worst guys in major league. I'm not saying I am always and right and have it all figured out, I just don't think the point you are trying to make is what would actually happen in reality.
Who has more value?
The guy who is on TV for 15 minutes and gets a podium interview to name his sponsors after winning the B main.
Or
The guy who is on TV for 0 minutes and no podium interview after coming in 20th in the A main.
I get the idea, this is how RC car racing works, bur the mission of those events is completely different than the supercross series.
The other more meritocratic seeding system is elimination qualifiers which I was the sx format before the introduction of the 125 class. This format is used by American Flat Track, but the have recently gone away from it for their premier class because they wanted all the big name racers in the main at every race.
Racing a motorcycles in a stadium is a marketing-show-sport and its important to keep that in mind.
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Whatever they do hopefully the industry and riders will drop the word "Coast" when referring to the East or West Regions. Always weird to hear of a race in Texas, Minnesota, Indiana, Tennessee, Colorado etc... referred to an East or West Coast race.
You hit the nail on the head saying "the mission of those events is completely different" and that "it's a marketing-show-sport". This is the source of all our dissent. It's treated like a show and not a real sport. I have already acknowledged that the sport/show is so entrenched in politics with the AMA, manufacturers, etc. that we will likely never see real change. A completely new regime must emerge.
Regarding who has more value, you are making a point that applies to the current system. I'm saying we need a completely new system, including how riders get paid, sponsorships, etc. Set up the series the way you want, and the sponsors will adapt.
We are almost on the same page. But I think your suggestion would also be a whole lot better than what we have. The main issue I still see is just not enough elite talent to go around. Would likely still see less competition and a lot of domination in both classes due to splitting up the field. But, a major improvement to the series, would also help bring in new talent so that would help.
You may not like it but in the US RC car racing and motorcycle roadracing promotors aspire to have the success of SX.
By saying the mission of those events is different I meant that they may get a couple thousand people watch an event on LiveRC but that's secondary to organizing hundreds of mostly amateur racers into a logical program that accommodates everyone for a single event not a series. This is much different than a supercross night show and championship series.
I get it, I'm just saying it sounds like the format for those events works. You cant really determine if that format has anything to do with the popularity though because RC Racing will likely never be as big as Supercross, just as Supercross will never be as big as F1.
The rc comparison is not great aside from the format.
I used to watch alot of ama roadracing in the late 90s and early 2000s in the Duhamel, Hayden, Spies, Mladin days when the Daytona 200 was on par as an event with the Daytona SX. Then DMG bought AMA Pro Racing and thought they knew how to make the sport better and the whole thing completely collapsed. It's been a decade and a half and American roadracing hasn't recovered and aside from a couple guys that have made it to WSB and Moto2 US riders are completely insignificant on the World stage.
AMA is basically the government swamp of motorcycle racing. Ultimately, the dilapidated state of the sport in America leads back to them.
The 250 class would be decimated by injuries if they raced 17 rounds.
Most of these kids have a hard time surviving 8 or 9 rounds.
Nope, DMG made all the rule changes, it wasn't the AMA. If you are arguing that AMA shouldn't have sold AMA Pro Racing to them then sure.
DMG is Daytona Motorsports Group, the France family that owns the track.
I'm not versed enough in who owns what or who sold what to who. Some of these organizations seem like they are just taxing bodies of the industry. Want to do a pro race, pay the AMA!
Actually, MXSports has been paying DMG to hold the outdoors since 2008.
But what is the relevance of it being AMA sanctioned? And I'm sure that's not free.
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