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Waste of money really. For what that tiny bottle costs, you could buy 2-3 gallons of Toluene or other compounds from Walmart or a paint store. I really miss MEK. That was dirt cheap when available.
Most Octane boosters are a cheap blend of that or Xylene, or even cheaper usually Naptha all available anywhere.
Toluene is 114 and Xylene is around 115 or 16 both using the R+M/2 method.
That product had one compound that would probably only be found at a chemical house but really not needed.
Lots of race fuels are blended with a ton of Toluene and to a lesser extent Xylene due to cost. Fancy bottles sell for high dollar on a shelf. Do your research.
Also, most octane boosters sit on shelves in plastic bottles for who knows how long. Walmart and paint stores have the same thing in steel cans and most have a date code on them.....and they move a lot of product.
Petro Engineer, thanks for all your insight on fuel topics! You definitely come across as being well versed on the topic and it's enlightening to hear your positive thoughts on AV gas. I've seen the use of AV gas come up on mx forums quite a few times and it's always been a controversial one...some saying you should never do it and other's are all in. Seems the folks that are against it based it on a Jody Weisel article in motorcross action years ago where he said it was a gas meant to run at higher altitudes and different temps...or something like that. After hearing your opinion, I'm now wondering where I can buy some. I take it that I could go to any airstrip and get my can filled ? If so, is there anything saying they fill only metal cans or anything like that?
On the topic of octane boosters. Back in 1989 , bought my only can of that and it was a klotz product...thought I'd give it a try. At that time I was running maxima 927 @ 40:1 and mixed the additive with that per the directions. By the time I had almost run through my first gas tank of the mixture, my RM250 (which had fresh piston and rings) started running poorly. I then went to try to restart the bike and it felt low on compression and wouldn't start. Took it home and took the top end off and the rings were so gummed up they were stuck in the ring grooves and wouldn't expand out as they should to give a good seal. Cleaned them up and it ran like it should again. At no time was the bike getting loaded up, smoking, bogging or anything like that and was being run at higher rpms as usual on an mx track. To this day , I've sworn off 927 and octane additives but never really understood what happened.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but its on topic. A local airport close to me sells MOGAS along with 100LL. What would be the difference between the two? My understanding is MOGAS is unleaded and has less octane?
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That depends which blend you're running. They offer numerous mixes
I'd like to thank Petro Eng as well. Interesting responses.
I don't know of any fuel or additive that can gum anything up as most are a solvent of sorts. Now the 927 from all the MSDS sheets I've seen is roughly 48% Castor, and reads almost identical as Castrol A747..and possibly just relabeled, which is not uncommon.
Castor oil is a love hate for me. Love the smell, love the unmatched protection in extremely high heat,(like old air cooled karts and bikes) and extremely high RPM engines, say extended time RPM 0ver 9K RPM..James Stewart on a 125 for example. Hate the dirty burning part of it. And in cold climates starts to separate around 35F. So you need to shake it up good. (Not a bad habit with anything really)
I don't recommend anything with Castor unless you have specific need, or are getting torn down all the time(again, a James Stewart 125 engine is all new each race)
There are many brands of Synthetic that will protect damn near as good, and burn cleaner(especially for exhaust valved machines. Klotz R50, Motul 800, Bel Ray H1R, Redline, etc.etc.
That said, I occasionally run Klotz Super techniplate in my lawn and garden stuff. It is their original techniplate(good stuff) with a 20% castor component.....only for the smell. Nothing else, and not needed, although it does have an exceptional film strength. So at 32:1, it is less than 1 ounce per gallon.....but over time it IS dirtier than pure synth. That is the Castor. I just love the smell and makes using a chain saw or whatever a bit more fun. Regular Klotz smells pretty good too as many would say.
That said, Even higher flash point Ester synths will burn somewhat dirtier than a lower flash point oil over time. It takes more combustion heat to burn off a higher flash point oil, especially anything with Castor.
Crazy Fun fact, Stihls HP and HP Ultra(Synth) oils are blended by Omni last I remember and are really good! Chain saws get worked hard.....
No such thing as a dumb question.
What airport? And do they say it is an approved Mogas for aircraft?
Things change all the time, but only a few aircraft engines have STC approval to run mogas, and I know Swifts 94UL AVGas has even street vehicle approval and STC approval for many lower compression aircraft with manufacturer approvals to run. It has Zero alcohol. It is essentially 100LL with the lead removed.
GAMI now has their 100UL or 102UL(the original name) approved for some engines as a drop in replacement for 100LL but availability is almost nil and is 60-85 cents more than 100UL.
It’s called Boone municipal airport in central Iowa. I’m not really sure what it’s approved for because it just says MOGAS on the website. But I may call them and ask for some information on it. If it was UL94 id love to give that a try in my bikes as an alternative to race gas. I’m just looking for something cleaner and more consistent to run in my bikes
Hey, thanks for the response, but now I have more questions, ha. You said the Torco would be a waste of money ($26/32oz), is that because it doesn’t really boost the octane levels, or the mix is bad for an engine, all of the above, etc?
I did quick seach on wal mart’s site for toluene and the first one that pops up is 32 oz jug for $30 ( https://www.walmart.com/ip/Toluene-toluol-1000ml-32oz-High-Purity-Solve… ). How much of the toluene would you mix with 5 gallons of 91 to get it around 100?
Thanks again.
Hmm... there is a guy... that worked with the major oil companies on the development of Race Gas for NASCAR etc... He has a very special dyno with lots of data points. His Name is Bob Wirth..... Petro Engineer... do you know him and his work?
I looked this up and the local store have none except a gallon can of Xylene 39.99 and a 4 pack of 1 gallon cans of Toluene for 139.99. Home Depot had neither in stock but was cheaper. I didn't check paint stores, but they sell tons.
Run it through a paint filter but 10% to start. I've seen some "race fuels" with an MSDS showing 70% Toluene and 15% Xylene so that shows what is being sold.
Also, cans usually have a date code somewhere, but being in steel cans it really doesn't matter. Just make sure it is real 100% product. Recently MEK has a "Alternative " being sold which is some Naptha or something. Naphtha ( also sometimes listed as Petroleum Distillates) is a cheap product used in cheap "Octane Boosters"
Also, look out for deceptive marketing. 2-3 POINTS is usually not what it seems.
It usually refers to raising Octane from 91.0 to 91.3. Not 94.
If you take say a gallon of Toluene at~ 115 R+M/2 into 4 gallons of 91 R+M/2 you would have 95.8. This is why AV Gas is such a cost effective fuel and Octane boosters are cash cows for retailers.
If you took that quart bottle into say "treats 20 gallons of fuel" like most do It is basically little increase.
Cutting Av gas is a better solution and cheaper. Using other things is just a band aid to get you by.
I have heard the name but sounds like he was maybe with Union 76 or someone who was the spec fuel for nascar before Sunoco. Nascars spec fuel is a pretty basic E15 blend.
Coincidentally, IndyCar now runs E85 instead of pure methanol. That might be for safety more than anything as back in the day many ran Klotz Uplon fuel lube (basically techniplate 2 stroke oil) in the methanol to help see fire and of course it helps lube things and combat corrosive effects. Buddy Lazier took a Klotz sponsored car to the winners circle.
Not much info on AirNav so you need to call. For example AV gas is rated differently than mogas and is better than what shows
the Sunonco Standard Race Fuel 110 octane I get from a pump has zero ethanol.
I'm a bit of a chainsaw freak and Stihl Ultra has a very bad rep in the chainsaw community for damaging engines. most well known chainsaw engine builders avoid it like the plague.
Hard for me to blame an oil for damaging an engine when we ran a bank of those engines at 40:1 with ATF, Gear Oil, 5w30, you name it and various oils at 150:1.
Most blame the oil related failures are due to something else, using stale last years gas, straight gas by mistake etc.
That said, most local shops around me recommend Klotz or Motul at 32:1 instead of 50:1. I agree with that considering some saws are running +/-12,000 for a long time.
Also, I'm not all sure what brands fall under Omni as their blender/bottler but they are getting their base stock from someone. Last I knew it was Castrol. Things change though.
For Example, Yamalubes are Citgo in N.A. and Esso in Europe. Or were before I retired.
Citgo Sea and Snow and Yamalube 2 was the same oil. Also Mystik, Citgo's retail brand.
Citgo also used to(might still, I don'tknow) blend all of Mercury Marine Oils, which were the same as Quicksilver, their retail brand sold everywhere except dealers.
With how many are using any product, it is almost impossible to truly have an oil related fail. We literally tried to blow engines on purpose.
Now if Omni is packaging Castrol for Stihl, there are many aftermarket motorcycle brands using Castrol base stock and most get their additive packages from the same chemical places as well.
What is suggested instead of the Stihl Ultra? I use stihl chainsaws and leaf blowers.
Pit Row
a lot of guys use husky oil and Echo Red Armor. the Stihl oil getting the bad press is in the silver bottles in the USA. haven't heard anything bad about the Stihl oil in the orange bottles. it is made by Castrol. or at least it used to be. I use Mobil1 MX2T. have been using it on everything 2 stroke since way back. bought about 20 cases when they discontinued it around 2006. this is all I have left.
Warren used to bottle and blend Huskys 50:1 premix, but both those oils are bottled and packaged by Spectrum.
They were bought out by Phillips 66 and would lead you to believe they were sourcing their oil from Phillips. The Echo has too low of flash point for me.
Funny thing, I have an old bottle of Phillips 66 Injex in my old McCulloch and some Yamalube in the Husky saw.(Same as Citgo sea and snow/Mystik) just to use them up.
I usually run Klotz Super Techniplate in the lawn and garden stuff, only for the smell. No other reason, even though the 20% Castor component burns dirtier than their regular Techniplates which are obviously much cleaner but still smells pretty damn good.
Edit, I should have added that both the Stihl oils are very robust oils on paper with relatively high flash points. ~450 range if I remember right. That can be great or bad depending on what you are looking for in an oil.
I can't see how any oil can "damage" an engine. I mean we literally tried to blow engines. Runaway heat can damage an engine..but other than no oil, or far too little oil, it is almost impossible to blame oil.
I can't tell you how many engines with 400 plus hours we would lock WFO and they would run out of gas over and over
So what’s your thought on adding Toluene to say, an oxygenated fuel like U4.4
Or would you think something else would be a better alternative like adding nitro or going to alky.
sorry if this sounds sinister. 😈
You will effectively dilute the oxygenation, and push the distillation curve to the heavier end and effectively make the bike run less well than straight U4
Interesting… I was wondering if it would be counterproductive, never experimented with mixing fuels. Always ran 110 race fuel or U4.4
I have heard of people mixing different things in with both, but never talked to anyone that was very knowledgeable. Most guys just say go methanol drill out your jets. Although I’m sure there’s a little more to that theory too. Lol
This is correct and defeats the purpose of the Oxygenate. If you wanted the same detonation protection and don't need the extra power, 100LL would do that as both have a similar AKI as shown on the graphic above.
If you needed a higher Octane, it would be cheaper to buy a similar fuel with a higher octane.
Using other things is just a quick fix for cheap fuel. Say a stock YZ 125 that pings and detonates on pump fuel. You'd still be better off getting some UL94 Avgas(99 R+M/2) or 100LL
That said, Methanol or Ethanol makes power but it can be a PITA. For 2 strokes, Only a few oils mix with it, like Klotz synths and most oils with Castor (read the labels!) Many don't. Alcohol Banshees can haul some serious mail!
Pure Methanol and Ethanol sucks for 4 strokes as you should run some Klotz Uplon(basically their Original Techniplate) or similar prtduct to combat the corrosive effects. And you have to run considerably richer jetting/mapping.
Various types of "Nitro" work and are just oxygenates.
I don't know anyone who has ran true nitromethane in a 2 stroke or small bore 4 stroke, pure or even a say a 90% blend like Top Fuel except for RC cars. It isn't cost effective.
Fun fact....Sig RC fuels and oils is repackaged Klotz.
I wrote effectively twice in sucession. Apologies! Too much powerpoint.
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