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I have a Sunoco fuel station close to me that sells 96, 100 and I believe 104 octane. Any benefit or harm from running that fuel in a 2023, KTM 350 SXF.?
Testing is the best way to determine any benefit. Any harm will be to your wallet.
In a stock bike you probably won't see any benefit
Not really. Just twist the throttle more. However, They are the only remaining refinery branded "race" fuel in the USA as far as I know since 76 quit, and Phillips66 is not selling their branded fuels anymore,(Trick and Track Tek or something like that,) but why not just run 100LL or Swifts 94UL AVGas if available? Or even GAMIs 102UL and save a ton of money.
Keep in mind, 99% of non refinery brand race fuels sold is 100LL Avgas base and coming out of Phillips66 plant in Borger TX. Hell, most 100-110 Octane leaded race fuel is just Av gas sold as "race fuel" depending on which numbers they use.
Nitrodog on here has some good info in the 100LL thread. He knows his stuff also working with them at one tine. It's a good read.
I see a lot of high end race cars filling up at Infineon raceway. I just wonder how good is 91 at our average pump? I know VP T-4 works because a difference can be felt. I just don’t want to drive long distances to get it. I pass Infineon on my way to the track. I used to stop there for leaded 110 when my son was on minis. Was curious if anyone really knew of any benefits to running higher octane non oxygenated unleaded gas? Thanks
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Same situation here. I have been experimenting with the 96 unleaded. My 2013 KTM 250xc loves the stuff, no jetting change at all. My 2002 YZ250 on the other hand, I have been struggling to get the jetting correct. So far, have had to lean out the whole circuit but again, noticeable power increase and better throttle response. What drew me to try it was it's non-ethanol rating and significant cost savings over VP.
Is leaded fuel good for four strokes? I always ran it in two strokes because motor builders saw it has extra protection benefits from detonation. I’m really not sure that’s why I posted and was hoping somebody there really knew would chime in.
It will prevent detonation if you are experiencing it while using pump gas. Otherwise, there is no benefit to higher octane fuel. Everything else being equal, your bike makes the most power running the lowest octane fuel that doesn’t predetonate.
Oxygenated race fuels make more more power, but the octane rating of the fuel has nothing to do with it.
Most sunoco unleaded racefuels are oxygenated with ethanol and also contain toluene to increase octane.
There is one blend sunoco sell in cans that is non oxy, it still smells of toluene, but I haven't confirmed this in my lab.
Lead isn't needed in anything anymore except some older engines, but it is the cheapest Anti knock additive/Octane inreaser for engines that need it regardless of 2/4 stroke.
You can get the same Anti knock from straight compounds but at a higher price point depending on the Octane you are blending.
For example, Gami just got their 102 UL av gas approved. It is 60-85 cents more (where available) than 100 LL and satisfies the 100/130 requirements. Swift also has a 100UL and 102UL but not yet approved. So does Shell and other Majors, but they didn't pursue it stating not enough demand yet.
Most airports aren't equipped for a 3rd fuel when 100LL is a proven performer.
Swifts 94 UL is essentially 100LL with no lead. That is what 2 grams TEL per gallon is worth.
C12 for example is still 4. C16 has 6. (Last MSDS info I read.)
There were a few places, but now I'm sure there is only one place in Poland producing TEL still for the world.
Coincidently, Warter Fuels, and Warter Aviation is there.
I saw one MSDS (I don't remember exactly which fuel) that showed it was like 70+% Toluene. People still think regular race fuels are some crazy witches brew.
Specialty and highly oxygenated fuels are getting into that territory, but plain compounds at walmart or a paint store, or chemical houses can basically blend "race fuel"
I mean if Xxx non refinery brand buys 10,000 gallons of Avgas, they can make many blends with that as a base. A little more TEL, a little more this and that...
I tried running AV gas back in 03 on a 125sx. Ran like total garbage due to the high levels of alcohol in it. You'd be better off going to a marina and getting their fuel. No alcohol.
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you simply read a MSDS on any brand of AvGas you would see no blend of AvGas has never have any alcohol or Oygenate.
100LL is rhe worlds most tightly regulated fuel outside of maybe F1 regulation fuel.
Try again.
And marina gas would be the absolute worst choice of fuel ever. I wouldn't run that in a weed eater or lawn mower.
I ran a proton NMR on the sunoco 100 we run. It's nice stuff, very simple blend of ethanol, toluene and the by far the majority component was branched alkyls. It was a narrow signal, indicating a narrow range of carbon chains and hence, boiling point range.
The NMR would also give a good estimate of ratios of the components, I just couldn't be bothered to calculate. Just by eye, ethanol and toluene were around 10% each or less.
Which exact fuel? Sunoco, along with most majors makes their MSDS sheets readily available with the % of each ingredient.
Here is the SS 100 UL. Specifically shows nothing special really. Just a plain fuel with ethanol.
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/content/userfiles/files/fuel-selector/S…
Sunoco fuel is very high in ethanol. Some people want that, most don’t.
if you’re going to run a race fuel, do yourself the service of getting your ECU mapped for it. Otherwise you’re getting a very very small amount of benefit from race fuel.
Sunoco 100 unleaded from the pump. Can't remember exactly which one. It's clean stuff, I didn't do msds, I took it to my lab and analyzed it.
GT260? I think???
They all have ethanol in them. Any gas sold at a public pump in CA legally must be oxygenated and the only legal oxygenate is ethanol.
Benefit of those over 91 pump is probably nothing, unless the bike is being ridden so hot that it's detonating.
Pit Row
Non moto but I run about 4 gallons of trick racing 100 octane unleaded per full tank with California 91 octane in my 5.0 mustang and she likes it at $10 a gallon 😂
Basic CARB approved street legal fuel with ethanol.
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/content/userfiles/files/fuel-selector/S…
Trick? Didn't know they were still around.
Ask them if it is still a Phillips 66 product out of Borger TX plant. It always was before and good stuff!
Also, are they selling the B series leaded fuels there also? That place in Borger TX makes the fuel base for most brands. Maybe even just rebranding it like Trick.
I primarily run Sunoco GTX260, it’s 98 octane with no ethanol. It is still relatively inexpensive when compare to VP… i can get it for about 65 dollars a five gallon pail. It seems pretty close to T4 and runs really crisp in my 350 compared to pump 91 with no ethanol when i can get it as it’s not available here in vegas. I am more concerned with not running ethanol than the octane, If i could find 91- 93 non ethanol I would run that but the GTX is the best I can find in Vegas… or T4 which is about 30 dollars more.
While that is a basic Naptha based fuel with a high toluene content, it is a quality product that isn't far off from basic Av gas.
Since you are more concerned with no alcohol, try AirNav.com and find some Av gas and see how it goes. If you want to run unleaded, Swift Fuels has a fuel finder on their site I think for their 94UL. Or call them.
While not readily available yet, Vegas might be big enough for the demand. It is about the same cost as 100LL.
Their 94 UL will quench a stock YZ 125's detonation. It is essentially 100LL with no lead. I really wish this was more available because it is a solid fuel.
Paying 12 bucks a gallon is alot when you could get the same performance for around half the cost.
This is a pretty good graph to show how Av gas is rated compared to street fuel.
100LL satisfies the old 100/130 fuel(Green) .
It's a way better fuel than 100 sounds like.
I appreciate all of the information… for some reason I find fuel very interesting!
I was just wanting a good clean alternative to pump gas without paying 20 bucks a gallon.
I run Sunoco 110 in our 1989 E-Z-GO Fuji Heavy Industries 3PG Robin Engine 2 stroke golf cart. I don't think it helps the performance, but it is the best smelling cart in the campground! 4 gallons a year. Cost in April 2022 was $10.12/g.
I had a 2019 crf250rx that had much better throttle response on Sunoco 260 gt plus (13% ethanol) than on 93 octane pump fuel. The only explanation I can come up for that is that pump fuel must usually have at least a little water in it and the Sunoco came out of a 55 gallon drum so had less water.
Any of you have experience with Torco additive? I’m running a 13.5:1 piston in my quad (trx450) so need to run ~100 octane, so I’m told. This seems like a good alternative to the price of VP or other brand race fuels. I mixed with non ethanol 91 pump gas to get it up around 102. So far I’ve only ran about 1/2 tank, but seems ok.
https://torcousa.com/products/accelerator
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