Road 2 Recovery : Brandon Hartranft Donation Portal, FYI

8tensolutions
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12/5/2022 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 12/5/2022 1:54pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
UFC fighters are all 1099 but they have insurance available for them to partake in that they cover. Fighters then choose to add extra coverage on...

UFC fighters are all 1099 but they have insurance available for them to partake in that they cover. Fighters then choose to add extra coverage on their own. 
 

Feld and MX sports could easily do something like this and make it eligible to anyone who has made X amount of night shows or fast 40s outdoors in the last 2 or 3 years. That way riders have to perform to keep it as well but it gives them a 2-3 year gap safety net for established riders.

This is not a Feld/MX Sports problem.  It is already offered in the marketplace with "Obamacare" which is essentially made for independent contractors and those who...

This is not a Feld/MX Sports problem.  It is already offered in the marketplace with "Obamacare" which is essentially made for independent contractors and those who do not have insurance through their employers.  Is the promotors wanted to partner with a carrier and offer a deal or something, that would be great, but still not their problem.  The problem is riders not preparing knowing damn well what the risks are and then posting Go fund me's for it.  The Go Fund Me makes sense if it is for lost earnings due to being injured.....that I can get behind for these guys, but please stop with the "they don't get paid enough" and "the promotors need to handle it for them" etc.  They CHOOSE to ride dirt bikes for a living just like you and I choose what we do.

chasetwo79 wrote:
Yes riders should insure themselves. They know the risks. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Feld/MX sports could set up a fund to help with...

Yes riders should insure themselves. They know the risks. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Feld/MX sports could set up a fund to help with this stuff or pay for a group plan similar to the one I mentioned above. The UFC does it for 800-1000 fighters. Surely our sport can figure it out for 80-120 riders.

Most UFC fighters are making under 100k a year just like Moto dudes. This should be something the carnival barkers at Feld and MX sport provide. 

In the current situation should all riders have their own healthcare? Yes. 

Should the current situation be changed drastically by the promotors of the top promotions of our sport? Also yes. 
 

 

If you read my post, I said the same thing and it would be great, I just said they shouldn't be "blamed" for it.

 

In addition, the UFC does not have "teams", so it could be argued the Teams should offer some sort of healthcare and for all we know they do.....that doesn't mean riders take advantage of it.  The same thing applies for the number of guys that have dirt bikes without insurance and then complain when they are stolen.  Ultimately, its about personal responsibility and anything others (promoters/teams) can add to make it better is great.

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12/5/2022 1:57pm

I hope he makes a full recovery and is hopefully back racing sooner than later. I'm curious if any of the top guys have it written in their contract that if they're injured, that the team/factory has to take care of all their medical costs?

If guys like Eli, Ken, Jett, Chase, Anderson etc. refuse to sign a deal unless that is included in the contract then they're out. 

Do you think the team would stand their ground and let a top guy walk? I think if a couple top guys demanded this eventually it would trickle down to other riders and teams. Just a thought. Just made a donation. Get well soon Brandon.

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chasetwo79
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12/5/2022 1:58pm
This is not a Feld/MX Sports problem.  It is already offered in the marketplace with "Obamacare" which is essentially made for independent contractors and those who...

This is not a Feld/MX Sports problem.  It is already offered in the marketplace with "Obamacare" which is essentially made for independent contractors and those who do not have insurance through their employers.  Is the promotors wanted to partner with a carrier and offer a deal or something, that would be great, but still not their problem.  The problem is riders not preparing knowing damn well what the risks are and then posting Go fund me's for it.  The Go Fund Me makes sense if it is for lost earnings due to being injured.....that I can get behind for these guys, but please stop with the "they don't get paid enough" and "the promotors need to handle it for them" etc.  They CHOOSE to ride dirt bikes for a living just like you and I choose what we do.

chasetwo79 wrote:
Yes riders should insure themselves. They know the risks. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Feld/MX sports could set up a fund to help with...

Yes riders should insure themselves. They know the risks. But, that doesn’t change the fact that Feld/MX sports could set up a fund to help with this stuff or pay for a group plan similar to the one I mentioned above. The UFC does it for 800-1000 fighters. Surely our sport can figure it out for 80-120 riders.

Most UFC fighters are making under 100k a year just like Moto dudes. This should be something the carnival barkers at Feld and MX sport provide. 

In the current situation should all riders have their own healthcare? Yes. 

Should the current situation be changed drastically by the promotors of the top promotions of our sport? Also yes. 
 

 

If you read my post, I said the same thing and it would be great, I just said they shouldn't be "blamed" for it.   In...

If you read my post, I said the same thing and it would be great, I just said they shouldn't be "blamed" for it.

 

In addition, the UFC does not have "teams", so it could be argued the Teams should offer some sort of healthcare and for all we know they do.....that doesn't mean riders take advantage of it.  The same thing applies for the number of guys that have dirt bikes without insurance and then complain when they are stolen.  Ultimately, its about personal responsibility and anything others (promoters/teams) can add to make it better is great.

Oh 100 percent. I don’t blame them. I just wish they did better. The issue isn’t always insurance it’s just missing out on the paychecks that R2R helps with. 

Only about 8-10 riders in this sport can miss a year or 2 without being dead broke. And even then, that would run out quick. This isn’t a sport where people get rich in large numbers. 

That’s why I like the comparison to UFC fighters. All are 1099. Only a few make really good money worth the bodily harm. You have to be a pyscho to deal with the harm that comes from it and all the training. Most fighters have to teach kids or take exhibition grappling matches to stay afloat just like most riders teach schools and go to off-season or local money races. 

Disability insurance helps, but those premiums get high once you’ve tapped into it a couple of times. So having a fund from feld/MX sports would help. 

If a rider’s out of pocket got covered, that’s an extra couple of months of cash runway they’d have. Just some thoughts. 

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1stSSPZ
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12/5/2022 2:19pm
CPan wrote:

Suzuki has millions of dollars for Ken Roczen but they can’t take care of a current rider, so we have to? 

Rotaholic wrote:

You need to replace the word suzuki with USA, we have free health care here in NZ, his bill would be zero. 

Free, my ass. All the money your nowhere government steals from your paycheck is being “redistributed” to some one else.

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The Shop

8tensolutions
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12/5/2022 6:27pm
CPan wrote:

Suzuki has millions of dollars for Ken Roczen but they can’t take care of a current rider, so we have to? 

Rotaholic wrote:

You need to replace the word suzuki with USA, we have free health care here in NZ, his bill would be zero. 

1stSSPZ wrote:

Free, my ass. All the money your nowhere government steals from your paycheck is being “redistributed” to some one else.

Correct, and if you don't want massive wait times, you need private health insurance anyway.  It is also not free to go to the doc and you need referral for almost everything.  Just like everything, there is no free lunch.  Somebody, somewhere has to pay for it and it's most likely you.

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WhipMeister
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12/5/2022 6:55pm
I saw that, but all insurance I have ever been exposed to personally and professionally has a maximum out of pocket and then the rest is...

I saw that, but all insurance I have ever been exposed to personally and professionally has a maximum out of pocket and then the rest is handled. For comparisons, I took a minute out of curiosity and compared marketplace plans (available to everyone) at Covered California.  I chose an Orange county zip code for a 24 year old male and there were more than 40 plans to choose from.....and believe it or not they offer financial help at that age with 100K income.  As you can see, even the lower cost plan has a $9100 maximum out of pocket.  After that, it is 100% covered including things like physical therapy and all other medical expenses etc etc.  I am not sure what plans any of these guys have, but it always sounds like a massive gap in planning or understanding.  

 

image-20221204140334-1

 

They also have a maximum. 

 

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brocster
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12/6/2022 7:20pm

Insurance companies and healthcare (what a name) are two of the dirtiest businesses around.  Insurance Co.s have standards on how much they pay for each procedure (norms) as specific facilities with specific Dr’s. Think “the book” at a auto body shop. Healthcare facilities has their own set of “norms” that are built to cover the costs of the overall facility and the Dr’s there that may not be directly tied to your insurance co. Ins companies “norms” don’t match facility “norms” and Dr’s cost can be different from facility to facility and insurance to insurance. Through all of that nonsense in the name of healthcare “balance billing” was created to cover the difference in cost and guess who gets stuck with it??? When Healthcare facilities became big businesses with enormous Org charts and overhead the “humane” part of healthcare went out the window. 

I lived it, I know. Rode in in an ambulance and rolled out 2 days later with some hardware and a $50,000.00 balance bill after insurance had paid the max and I paid my $5000 annual out of pocket maximum co pay.  Do NOTE I have insurance, good insurance. I fought and I fought hard, was very very time consuming, frustrating and several trips back and forth to the hospital retrieving records, itemized records. It’s not until you start questioning the $3500 room rent, $100 meals, $40 gauze rolls, $300 each stainless screws, I have 18. You can then find the dirt. After several appeals questioning and comparing costs that I was charged vs. the “norms” that insurance pays miraculously I was told that errors were made and $50K balance bill was wiped clean. It’s friggin sad that injured and sick people get taken advantage of in the lowest of times by “healthcare”. Hope the Hartranft family reads this and can take something away from it. It’s sad but you actually have to question every supply and every touch of any healthcare person that enters the room. 
 

Good luck and Get Well Soon!

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8tensolutions
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12/6/2022 10:13pm
brocster wrote:
Insurance companies and healthcare (what a name) are two of the dirtiest businesses around.  Insurance Co.s have standards on how much they pay for each procedure...

Insurance companies and healthcare (what a name) are two of the dirtiest businesses around.  Insurance Co.s have standards on how much they pay for each procedure (norms) as specific facilities with specific Dr’s. Think “the book” at a auto body shop. Healthcare facilities has their own set of “norms” that are built to cover the costs of the overall facility and the Dr’s there that may not be directly tied to your insurance co. Ins companies “norms” don’t match facility “norms” and Dr’s cost can be different from facility to facility and insurance to insurance. Through all of that nonsense in the name of healthcare “balance billing” was created to cover the difference in cost and guess who gets stuck with it??? When Healthcare facilities became big businesses with enormous Org charts and overhead the “humane” part of healthcare went out the window. 

I lived it, I know. Rode in in an ambulance and rolled out 2 days later with some hardware and a $50,000.00 balance bill after insurance had paid the max and I paid my $5000 annual out of pocket maximum co pay.  Do NOTE I have insurance, good insurance. I fought and I fought hard, was very very time consuming, frustrating and several trips back and forth to the hospital retrieving records, itemized records. It’s not until you start questioning the $3500 room rent, $100 meals, $40 gauze rolls, $300 each stainless screws, I have 18. You can then find the dirt. After several appeals questioning and comparing costs that I was charged vs. the “norms” that insurance pays miraculously I was told that errors were made and $50K balance bill was wiped clean. It’s friggin sad that injured and sick people get taken advantage of in the lowest of times by “healthcare”. Hope the Hartranft family reads this and can take something away from it. It’s sad but you actually have to question every supply and every touch of any healthcare person that enters the room. 
 

Good luck and Get Well Soon!

I couldn't agree more and have similar stories with injuries. You have to fight in some cases especially when it comes to "network" when you have emergency surgery and the hospital assigns the doc and then the insurance pays it differently because he is out of network.  It takes a lot of time and talking to the right person for sure. 

2
mx313
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12/6/2022 11:41pm
I hope he makes a full recovery and is hopefully back racing sooner than later. I'm curious if any of the top guys have it written...

I hope he makes a full recovery and is hopefully back racing sooner than later. I'm curious if any of the top guys have it written in their contract that if they're injured, that the team/factory has to take care of all their medical costs?

If guys like Eli, Ken, Jett, Chase, Anderson etc. refuse to sign a deal unless that is included in the contract then they're out. 

Do you think the team would stand their ground and let a top guy walk? I think if a couple top guys demanded this eventually it would trickle down to other riders and teams. Just a thought. Just made a donation. Get well soon Brandon.

Nah they would just throw them another 10k into there million dollar contract and say make sure you have full medical coverage.

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2
12/7/2022 12:17am
mx313 wrote:

Nah they would just throw them another 10k into there million dollar contract and say make sure you have full medical coverage.

Your probably right. I just looked up Nascar, F1, and Motogp. From what I can gather after some searching, everyone but the driver is covered under the teams insurance except the racer/driver. I know we're a small sport in the spectrum, but all the NFL, MLB, and NBA players are covered under their team. I'm surprised that none of the top guys never had insurance coverage written into their contract. Maybe some do and it's just kept on the down low. 

MJC
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AU
12/7/2022 3:17am

Forgive my ignorance but can you actually line up for an AMA race without insurance? I would hope not

Money wrote:

Think the AMA is gonna look into it if you have insurance or not. Hell no. 

Regretting wading into this debate, but why can’t the AMA do this. 
I’m obviously in another country and industry (Construction), but any contractor who signs up for us cannot start without supplying their certificate of currencies for all required insurances. It’s pretty bloody easy for all parties particularly as it is industry standard and non-negotiable. 

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WTF_M8
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North West, NC, USA
12/7/2022 7:12am Edited Date/Time 12/7/2022 7:13am
brocster wrote:
Insurance companies and healthcare (what a name) are two of the dirtiest businesses around.  Insurance Co.s have standards on how much they pay for each procedure...

Insurance companies and healthcare (what a name) are two of the dirtiest businesses around.  Insurance Co.s have standards on how much they pay for each procedure (norms) as specific facilities with specific Dr’s. Think “the book” at a auto body shop. Healthcare facilities has their own set of “norms” that are built to cover the costs of the overall facility and the Dr’s there that may not be directly tied to your insurance co. Ins companies “norms” don’t match facility “norms” and Dr’s cost can be different from facility to facility and insurance to insurance. Through all of that nonsense in the name of healthcare “balance billing” was created to cover the difference in cost and guess who gets stuck with it??? When Healthcare facilities became big businesses with enormous Org charts and overhead the “humane” part of healthcare went out the window. 

I lived it, I know. Rode in in an ambulance and rolled out 2 days later with some hardware and a $50,000.00 balance bill after insurance had paid the max and I paid my $5000 annual out of pocket maximum co pay.  Do NOTE I have insurance, good insurance. I fought and I fought hard, was very very time consuming, frustrating and several trips back and forth to the hospital retrieving records, itemized records. It’s not until you start questioning the $3500 room rent, $100 meals, $40 gauze rolls, $300 each stainless screws, I have 18. You can then find the dirt. After several appeals questioning and comparing costs that I was charged vs. the “norms” that insurance pays miraculously I was told that errors were made and $50K balance bill was wiped clean. It’s friggin sad that injured and sick people get taken advantage of in the lowest of times by “healthcare”. Hope the Hartranft family reads this and can take something away from it. It’s sad but you actually have to question every supply and every touch of any healthcare person that enters the room. 
 

Good luck and Get Well Soon!

Yep. And now they are all merging to area monopolies.

Around here everything is run by either Atrium or Novant.

I have been waiting to get a simple EMG test for 4 months.

Last year I scheduled the same test for 2 days after the referral.

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-MAVERICK-
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12/29/2022 1:09pm
Gollum
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San Jose, CA, USA
12/29/2022 3:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2022 8:31pm
1stSSPZ wrote:

Free, my ass. All the money your nowhere government steals from your paycheck is being “redistributed” to some one else.

This. 
 

nothing is "free." I'm sure in a country like New Zealand where (most) people are from the same culture and heritage, a social welfare system can mostly provide for the nation's healthcare costs. This is because generally speaking most people in the society are paying into the social welfare system and not abusing it.

In America, the same system absolutely will not work. those actually paying to support our welfare state is probably less than 50% of the population. We're already running the country into a huge deficit just paying for basic defense and food stamps. There is just no way the working class can afford to float the health care costs of the non-workers here.

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