C&J XR500

Lasse
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613
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DK
1/28/2022 7:22am
Bearuno wrote:
[b]Lasse :[/b] It appears that you are going to have to source either spherical bearings for each eye of those Vintcos , or get shocks that...
Lasse :

It appears that you are going to have to source either spherical bearings for each eye of those Vintcos , or get shocks that take them.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think my mates BZS had the canted top shock bolts as it appears to be the case with yours. And, again, I'm unsure, but it was to deal with the top mounts being narrower than the swingarm mounts. Much like the last versions of the Twin Shock Huskys. Unfortunately, the BZS chassis bike, is a long way away from me, and, the owner is in Britain, working. Not that he'd have much of a clue as what is on the bike - he's a 'buyer', not a 'builder', and the most inept mechanic I've ever come across. But, he makes a fortune, he has others, to do his 'things'. Fair enough, money makes the World go around, as they say. Whistling

He has about 4 sets of shocks for it, ALL having spherical bearings in each eye. One set was a pair of original Ohlins ITC ( the Blue, 18.5 / 18.6" . 470 /475mm eye to eye ) that I made new, shorter shaft eyes, to bring them to the correct length. The Shaft Eyes on the last model Twin Shock Huskys, were extended to go onto the Outside of the swingarm, and, they canted in up to the top shock mounts . They were used only initially. He has since obtained sets of Falcon Shocks, a pair of YSSs, and modern Ohlins, all with external Rebound and Compression adjustability.

I note that the Vintcos list the eyelet reducers / spacers they supply as being 10 x 12 x 16mm. And, pictures seem to show an insert in the eyes, that could be a DU bushing - is that the case? You might have to do a bit of searching for spherical bearings, or, perhaps have the shock eyes machined out to fit what is available. Generally, freely available spherical bearings with 10mm centers, have an O.D of 22mm, but, I've come across smaller OD ones, but they tend to have Very narrow outer diameter Widths, that could easily 'punch' into alloy housings / eyelets. I wish I could help with the spherical bearing options better, but, as I said, I can't currently get to the bike, or shocks, in question.
Hello all,

I've been abroad for work the last week, so no progress has been made. The easy part with projects like this is spending the money, now the modifications needed to make the parts work need to happen. I've been considering different options in regards to the upper shock mount.

I think the best way is to alter the frame mounts to have them both parallel. This ensures that the load on the top bushing is spread over the largest surface area as mentioned by Bearuno.

I think the easiest way is to have the top mounts milled out to 22 mm. and a spherical bearing installed. HOWEVER, as the housing width is only 10mm, this does raise some concern. On the other hand Husqvarnas have been using this method since the late 70'es to my knowlegde. If going down this route, I'd also like to have a groove milled, to install circlips on either side, so the bearing stays in the middle.
Bearuno
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AU
1/29/2022 3:48am
Contact BZS Before you cut into the frame. They'll surely have some advice / solutions for mounting the shocks.

The most common Spherical bearing sizes for a 10mm ID ( I've been assuming all along that is the bolt size, so I could be quite wrong with that ??) is a 22mm OD, with the outer 'race' having a 10.5mm width. You can get 10mm ID Spherical Bearings with a 19mm OD, with a outer 'race' width of 6mm. They could give you the option of machining the eyelets to 19mm, while leaving a lip to 'stop' the bearing, and having a circlip groove machined in the other side.

But, to repeat, contact BZS - And shock specialists. There may (well, almost certainly will be) be spherical bearings and spacers / pressed pin spacers that have been made to suit the smaller confines of Motorcycle shock eyes.

Hope you don't take this all as my haranguing you - I just wish I could get to my mates C&J BZS replica, and his horde of shocks, to do some checking and measuring for you.

As an aside, we fitted both WP 50s to it, And 97(???) Showa conventional forks. These almost certainly won't fit the bill for many Vet / Vintage / Twin Shock racing rules - though I see Many of those relatively modern front ends on older bikes, say at the VMXdN . But, besides the better performance they can deliver, a Big thing is Not having the Bar Mounts so far back, 'in your lap', like the front end (? - CRs of the 80s era - ?) in your pictures. Having the bars more forward, really does make a lot of the older bikes feel far, far better.
2
Lasse
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613
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DK
2/26/2022 1:51pm
A bit of an update:

I've ordered a new connecting rod, as the next part of the project will be finishing off the bottom-end.
At the same time I will have the splines on the outputshaft welded up, to remove slack.

Struggling to find a front wheel. So if anyone knows anyone, Im in the market for a CR125/250 front hub.
Lasse
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613
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11/5/2015
Location
DK
3/20/2022 10:33am
Upon inspection today I found a fatal flaw in the frame. Not quite sure how this will turn out. Emailed thed maker with the same pictures as here and described the issue.


1

The Shop

Lasse
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DK
3/20/2022 10:38am
Above was found when we where modifying the upper shockmounts to accomodate the Vintco airshocks.


3
Gravel
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Ridgecrest, CA, USA
3/22/2022 6:57am
That sucks! Do you know the spec ID? It could be as easy as finding the correct reamer.

Hope this isn’t a deal breaker for you, I’ve been watching this thread and digging the whole project! Those custom race thumpers are just cool scooters!
Bearuno
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3/23/2022 2:16am Edited Date/Time 3/24/2022 7:00am
Gravel wrote:
That sucks! Do you know the spec ID? It could be as easy as finding the correct reamer. Hope this isn’t a deal breaker for you...
That sucks! Do you know the spec ID? It could be as easy as finding the correct reamer.

Hope this isn’t a deal breaker for you, I’ve been watching this thread and digging the whole project! Those custom race thumpers are just cool scooters!
It will be 47mm ID. That's a common CR type head bearing OD. Plus, it looks like 46.5 and 47.5 (approx) for the 2 measurements, so the median is 47mm.

Lasse ; There can be a sh*tload of distortion. Every bloody where. So much depends on Jigging, Tight, Non Gap Joints, and Weld Patterning. And, even then, you'll have 'corrections' to be made.

But, those corrections, Should be done by the manufacturer. Not the Customer. I found only a few details that I had to correct on my mates BZS, but even they left me, shall I say, a bit surprised. With my frame building, to make sure of no / minimal distortion, I use deep, light press fit brass or stainless inserts, with a hefty through post, all 'locked' in to the head tube. And, perfect mitering, a lot of tacks, and staged welds, with as much of the welding whilst in the frame jig(s) as possible, and that can mean real gymnastics to get to weld points. Yet still, I'll have some 'clean up' to do, be it de-ovalizing a tube, or facing / reaming. With a lot of my frames - well, all - I make the head tubes longer than they are meant to be, to accommodate 'corrections'.

Check the 'length' of the head tube, front to back, side to side. I'd not be surprised after you've found those ID variations, to find the 'length' of the headtube to vary. Check the 'lengths', not only at the end faces, But, at the bearing landings, as They are the real arbiters of parallel bearings. And if They are out, it can be a bastard of a job, if you don't have the correct tooling and machining.

Good luck, it looks like you have a bit of a sh*t fight on yours hands.
3
swatdoc
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Location
Temecula, CA, USA
5/13/2022 1:00pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2022 1:08pm
The C&J frames were made to use the 17.5" shocks (eye to eye). Stock length for the 78-80 CR250s - hope that's what you got (if this frame is identical to the C&J)

BTW - if you ever decide to run Fox Factory Forks on your bike, I have two sets of custom made billet triple clamps from PDE which were made specifically to run the FFF on these Hondas.

I notice there are no mounts on the frame for chain rollers - you might want to fab something up prior to painting the frame.

Anxious to see how your build progresses.

1
Lasse
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7/25/2022 7:59am
I’ve have the cylinder and head done up, next up is the output shaft.

4
Bearuno
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7/26/2022 12:28am
I was wondering about your progress with the build Lasse.

Got the frame issues sorted?
Lasse
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613
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DK
7/27/2022 11:24am
Bearuno wrote:
I was wondering about your progress with the build Lasse.

Got the frame issues sorted?
Yes, BZS has sorted it really well with great customer service. The whole headstock tube has been reworked.
3
Bearuno
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7/28/2022 2:38am
Lasse wrote:
Yes, BZS has sorted it really well with great customer service. The whole headstock tube has been reworked.
That's bloody wonderful!

Good to see a company sort things out. Every now and then, things do 'escape' from the workshop that aren't quite what they should have been.

I guess you've got the shock / shock mount situation sorted?

It will be quite the bike, when finished.

Hey, I recently bought some 40mm Husky fork cable guides from HVA, to use on Fox 40 DH forks. Now, they cost me a motza when freight was included, but I want better front brake line control on my DH bikes I make, when they go out my door than just the fork arch clamp. I'd just tried to check out their full Husky 4 stroke builds, and somehow doing that had put one of the bikes in my "cart". I nearly had a 'hearty' at the price of over 26,000 Brit pounds, ( might have been Euros) before I realised what the second line of the invoice was for...... Woohoo
Lasse
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DK
10/27/2022 10:44am
A little update from the garage. Following a hiatus, as I’ve been prioritizing riding a lot this summer.

I’ve had the front forks and wheel hubs vapor blasted.




For the forks, I’ve changed the oil seals. Currently running double oil seals instead of a dust seal on top. This is suggested by Elderfield Honda and only the oil seals where available, so I gave that a go. Unfortunately the cartridges are per RaceTech non-rebuildable, so in the future I might need other forks.

Also I’ve been building the wheels. Here I had ordered an incorrect rear rim and spokes, those have been returned and the correct pair ordered. This time I will be going with a 19” inch rim, for more tire options.


As of now I’m just waiting on getting back my crankshaft from a rebuild, so engine assembly can start. In that regard, since the balancing system has been removed I will also be plugging the oil feed going to the balancing shaft bearings, to the bottom end and camshaft instead.

5
Lasse
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11/15/2022 1:01pm


Little by little, piece by piece
10
RF145
Posts
503
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5/31/2013
Location
Rutherford, NJ, USA
11/19/2023 5:52pm
Lasse wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2022/11/15/576901/s1200_D1EF20CC_ECF9_46A7_A570_3C54A2992F5C.jpg[/img] Little by little, piece by piece


Little by little, piece by piece

I say it is about time for another update!

4
RF145
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Rutherford, NJ, USA
12/2/2023 12:27pm

Picked this close cousin. 
HPF XR 500 monoshock 

Will start a thread as I am going to make it mine  

IMG 4157.jpeg?VersionId=2dBjiUtu1gh68gFPLINdWYwteHTH

2
Lasse
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DK
12/3/2023 10:56am

Here is an update! 

Since last the exhaust has been welded up and a bracket for the muffler produced.

Wheels have been laced and tires added. BUT the front and rear sprocket do not line up, so I might have to order a new rear setup. I have sent the bike over to a good friend of mine who will correct my mistake and line it up perfectly. If that means new rim and spoke, then so be it.

Next up would be to get an HPI ignition and do the final test assembly.

398176293 10227476446111568 6597850205816712094 n

9
10/26/2024 11:24pm

Did this ever get finished? Thanks

Lasse
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613
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11/5/2015
Location
DK
10/28/2024 5:23am

Did this ever get finished? Thanks

Hello Aidan, 

The bike is currently stored at friends place who has to machine the rear hub as the spokes/rim setup I ordered doesn't align the sprockets.

Hopefully this spring it will be running Smile

2
Inferno
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Laguna, IC
10/28/2024 8:06am

Great work!

Love old four strokes twinshock!! 

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